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You requirement of Richard is a strawman that does not pertain to the subject in this thread...why harp on something so irrelevant?
The scripture teaches what we are discussing, that punishment is eternal. Dancing around that is pointless and contradictory to the premise of scripture. It begs the warnings given in Revelation.
Christ commented, to answer your questions about babies, infants, those who never heard the gospel before and after its onset in scripture, and so do the Psalms.
Th glory of God is imprinted in the surroundings, the stars, the environment, and the soul of mankind, what is right and wrong. Christ said there are other sheep that are not within the fold of the elect, the chosen that are His flock exclusively, and He had done things that could not be contained alone in the scripture itself. So therefore, when Christ descended into Hades, and called with His voice, they heard, as they do then, now and in the future. Those that were and are true to the "unknown and unseen, all powerful God" - Ancient Helenistic and Greek mythology amongst their other gods, a loved that God with all their heart, are saved. Just like the ancient savages of the jungles that were true to this unseen God, that very unseen God, just as Melchezedick did worship, and many others throughout history, was in fact, the very God that came in the flesh whom we know of as Jesus Christ.
You requirement of Richard is a strawman that does not pertain to the subject in this thread...why harp on something so irrelevant?
The scripture teaches what we are discussing, that punishment is eternal. Dancing around that is pointless and contradictory to the premise of scripture. It begs the warnings given in Revelation.
Christ commented, to answer your questions about babies, infants, those who never heard the gospel before and after its onset in scripture, and so do the Psalms.
Th glory of God is imprinted in the surroundings, the stars, the environment, and the soul of mankind, what is right and wrong. Christ said there are other sheep that are not within the fold of the elect, the chosen that are His flock exclusively, and He had done things that could not be contained alone in the scripture itself. So therefore, when Christ descended into Hades, and called with His voice, they heard, as they do then, now and in the future. Those that were and are true to the "unknown and unseen, all powerful God" - Ancient Helenistic and Greek mythology amongst their other gods, a loved that God with all their heart, are saved. Just like the ancient savages of the jungles that were true to this unseen God, that very unseen God, just as Melchezedick did worship, and many others throughout history, was in fact, the very God that came in the flesh whom we know of as Jesus Christ.
Asking a question for further explanation of a person's views is a straw man?!?
Sorry, the salvation of babies is very relevant to the discussion of whether all men are saved are not.
Scotiamicks, do you believe all babies that die are saved or not? Because if they are saved, when and how are they saved? If they are saved after death, wouldn't that be an important concept to understand, that perhaps people can be saved after death?
You requirement of Richard is a strawman that does not pertain to the subject in this thread...why harp on something so irrelevant?
The scripture teaches what we are discussing, that punishment is eternal. Dancing around that is pointless and contradictory to the premise of scripture. It begs the warnings given in Revelation.
Christ commented, to answer your questions about babies, infants, those who never heard the gospel before and after its onset in scripture, and so do the Psalms.
Th glory of God is imprinted in the surroundings, the stars, the environment, and the soul of mankind, what is right and wrong. Christ said there are other sheep that are not within the fold of the elect, the chosen that are His flock exclusively, and He had done things that could not be contained alone in the scripture itself. So therefore, when Christ descended into Hades, and called with His voice, they heard, as they do then, now and in the future. Those that were and are true to the "unknown and unseen, all powerful God" - Ancient Helenistic and Greek mythology amongst their other gods, a loved that God with all their heart, are saved. Just like the ancient savages of the jungles that were true to this unseen God, that very unseen God, just as Melchezedick did worship, and many others throughout history, was in fact, the very God that came in the flesh whom we know of as Jesus Christ.
The questions I've asked are not a straw man. They go to the very heart of the Gospel message. They go to the very heart of God's grace and how we are saved by Him. The questions I posed are legitimate.
But Calvinism does not like to be confronted with it or to proclaim their doctrines in public. But why not? If you believe reprobation is true, as you claim it is, proclaim it to the world!
As for me, I do know that reprobation was a possibility:
Rom 9:21 hath not the potter authority over the clay, out of the same lump to make the one vessel to honour, and the one to dishonour?
Yes, of course God does!! He has all authority to do so!!
Rom 9:22 And if God, willing to shew the wrath and to make known His power, did endure, in much long suffering, vessels of wrath fitted for destruction,
But the fact of the matter is, it says: if God was willing. But we know from scripture that He is not willing to do so:
1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
1Ti 2:5 for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who did give himself a ransom for all--the testimony in its own times--
And what about His vessels of Glory?
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of kindness, that He before prepared for glory, whom also He did call--us--
Joh 12:32 and I, if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.'
Don't you guy's get it!!??!! It is the Gospel for all to be saved!! It is the Gospel call!! We, all men, are the vessels of Glory!! You guys are giving me a total spiritual melt down with your unbelief! LOL
Believe it and proclaim the good news!!! If we don't, God will raise up stones to do it for us!!
Ok, since you all have not bothered to search for the answer to this question, I will post the scripture that does.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.
This explains everything in regards to those that haven't heard the gospel, those that are unaware of the ability to accept the gospel, as in children, or those indians from all around the world that never heard of the Israel God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit.
Why am I always working for you to produce the text that is right there in front of all of you, as you all proclaim to know so so much about?
The questions I've asked are not a straw man. They go to the very heart of the Gospel message. They go to the very heart of God's grace and how we are saved by Him. The questions I posed are legitimate.
But Calvinism does not like to be confronted with it or to proclaim their doctrines in public. But why not? If you believe reprobation is true, as you claim it is, proclaim it to the world!
As for me, I do know that reprobation was a possibility:
Rom 9:21 hath not the potter authority over the clay, out of the same lump to make the one vessel to honour, and the one to dishonour?
Yes, of course God does!! He has all authority to do so!!
Rom 9:22 And if God, willing to shew the wrath and to make known His power, did endure, in much long suffering, vessels of wrath fitted for destruction,
But the fact of the matter is, it says: if God was willing. But we know from scripture that He is not willing to do so:
1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
1Ti 2:5 for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who did give himself a ransom for all--the testimony in its own times--
And what about His vessels of Glory?
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of kindness, that He before prepared for glory, whom also He did call--us--
Joh 12:32 and I, if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.'
Don't you guy's get it!!??!! It is the Gospel for all to be saved!! It is the Gospel call!! We, all men, are the vessels of Glory!! You guys are giving me a total spiritual melt down with your unbelief! LOL
Believe it and proclaim the good news!!! If we don't, God will raise up stones to do it for us!!
I compound....men, man, people, flesh...not spirits or souls
Ok, since you all have not bothered to search for the answer to this question, I will post the scripture that does.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.
This explains everything in regards to those that haven't heard the gospel, those that are unaware of the ability to accept the gospel, as in children, or those indians from all around the world that never heard of the Israel God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit.
Why am I always working for you to produce the text that is right there in front of all of you, as you all proclaim to know so so much about?
OK. Wow. Such arrogance here. Thankyou for posting the one scripture that "explains everything".
Sorry I have never read that scripture the way you are interpreting it here.
But if you really believe that's what it means, you and many missionary's are doing a disservice by exposing people to the gospel, because they would have been saved otherwise if they hadn't heard the word and chose to reject it...
I compound....men, man, people, flesh...not spirits or souls
Such an incredible Gospel message of God's accomplished love for us, and few see it, and thank God for it! I'm dumbfounded by this!! But I guess I'm not surprised...LOL
Remember the 10 lepers whom Christ cleansed? Only one of the 10 saw that he was cleansed, and he turned back and gave thanks to God:
Luk 17:11 And it came to pass, in his going on to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee,
Luk 17:12 and he entering into a certain village, there met him ten leprous men, who stood afar off,
Luk 17:13 and they lifted up the voice, saying, `Jesus, master, deal kindly with us;'
Luk 17:14 and having seen them , he said to them, `Having gone on, shew yourselves to the priests;' and it came to pass, in their going, they were cleansed,
Luk 17:15 and one of them having seen that he was healed did turn back, with a loud voice glorifying God,
Luk 17:16 and he fell upon his face at his feet, giving thanks to him, and he was a Samaritan.
Luk 17:17 And Jesus answering said, `Were not the ten cleansed, and the nine--where?
Luk 17:18 There were not found who did turn back to give glory to God, except this alien;'
Luk 17:19 and he said to him, `Having risen, be going on, thy faith hath saved thee.'
Give thanks to God for cleansing us. It's true, we've been forgiven by Christ and declared righteous, as the Gospel proclaims! All of us (all ten). See it and know it and praise God for it!!
OK. Wow. Such arrogance here. Thankyou for posting the one scripture that "explains everything".
Sorry I have never read that scripture the way you are interpreting it here.
But if you really believe that's what it means, you and many missionary's are doing a disservice by exposing people to the gospel, because they would have been saved otherwise if they hadn't heard the word and chose to reject it...
Come again? Isn't that what UR preaches, that all mankind will be saved after death and hellfire regardless of their walk in life?
Who are the other sheep in the fold legoman?
Let's look at the Psalms:
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. ...There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
If you reject the word if it has been told to you, guess what?
You die forever. Good grief, what is so difficult here?
Last edited by sciotamicks; 12-07-2009 at 02:18 PM..
Reason: sp
Such an incredible Gospel message of God's accomplished love for us, and few see it, and thank God for it! I'm dumbfounded by this!! But I guess I'm not surprised...LOL
Remember the 10 lepers whom Christ cleansed? Only one of the 10 saw that he was cleansed, and he turned back and gave thanks to God:
Luk 17:11 And it came to pass, in his going on to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee,
Luk 17:12 and he entering into a certain village, there met him ten leprous men, who stood afar off,
Luk 17:13 and they lifted up the voice, saying, `Jesus, master, deal kindly with us;'
Luk 17:14 and having seen them , he said to them, `Having gone on, shew yourselves to the priests;' and it came to pass, in their going, they were cleansed,
Luk 17:15 and one of them having seen that he was healed did turn back, with a loud voice glorifying God,
Luk 17:16 and he fell upon his face at his feet, giving thanks to him, and he was a Samaritan.
Luk 17:17 And Jesus answering said, `Were not the ten cleansed, and the nine--where?
Luk 17:18 There were not found who did turn back to give glory to God, except this alien;'
Luk 17:19 and he said to him, `Having risen, be going on, thy faith hath saved thee.'
Give thanks to God for cleansing us. It's true, we've been forgiven by Christ and declared righteous, as the Gospel proclaims! All of us (all ten). See it and know it and praise God for it!!
Exactly....these lepers were men, alive on earth.
UR claim that souls will repent after the experience their "purification" is NOWHERE in the scripture...anywhere.
Come again? Isn't that what UR preaches, that all mankind will be saved after death and hellfire regardless of their walk in life?
Who are the other sheep in the fold legoman?
Let's look at the Psalms:
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. ...There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
If you reject the word if it has been told to you, guess what?
You die forever. Good grief, what is so difficult here?
You have lost me. It sounds like you are saying if you haven't been told the word, you will be saved.
If that is what you are saying, you should make it a point to not tell anyone the gospel. Go out of your way to stop the gospel being preached. Then no one will be able to reject it and all will be saved. That's what you are saying. Correct me if I am wrong.
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If we don't, God will raise up stones to do it for us!!
