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Let me explain how I see that part of salvation. It's actually identical to 5 point Calvinism:
Profession of faith is the outward expression of the inward working of grace by the Holy Spirit. It's the part of sanctification. I break salvation down into a number of distinct parts, if you will, that make up it's whole.
The parts of salvation that are wholly within the sovereignty of God, that man plays no deciding role in whatsoever, are: Foreknowledge, Predestination, Election Justification and Regeneration (the prerequisites to entering the Kingdom).
The part of salvation that man does participate in is his Sanctification which happens over time. Sanctification is where his renewed spirit (Regeneration by the Spirit), now believes in the Gospel, confesses Christ as Lord, performs good works, displays the fruits of the Spirit, etc. The final part of mans salvation will be when he is resurrected in glory to be with God and Christ for ever.
I think most 5 point Calvinists would probably agree with most of that.
Richard...I have been to that site before...good analysis. I understand now what you are presenting and I agree...this punishment is pruning as the text implies...those that reject Christ will be literally "cut off" from the well of living waters. Just like the stump is of God, and the branches of the Jewish church were cut off, the axe was laid at the root of the tree, so too were the wild branches, us Getiles, and the Jews receiving Christ, are grafted back in. But anything that does not, is severed from that tree of life, forever.
But, there is a site that also gives the root of kolasis and etymologically it is wrong to tag the meaning of the root to kolasis as in english Pruning and punishing are two different words so are the root of kolasis and kolasis itself one means to prune, cut the other punishment, torment....i understand this because i am a linguist....
To make sure we're still in agreement, and to see if we agree regarding justification, who is being justified (declared righteous) by God:
Rom 8:30 and whom He did fore-appoint, these also He did call; and whom He did call, these also He declared righteous; and whom He declared righteous, these also He did glorify.
Rom 4:5 and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned--to righteousness:
Would you agree that the impious (the sinner) are the ones that were called and justified before God?
I do it everyday my friend.
What I don't do, is tell that man, reagrdless of what he decides, inevitably, he will be saved and redeemed after his death.
If you do believe in the scriptural doctrine of justification, and also the Calvinistic doctrine of reprobation, how do you reconcile the two when proclaiming the truth of the Gospel to an unbeliever? In that Christ died for their sins (sins forgiven) and that they were declared righteous (justified) in Christ's resurrection?
Is it your belief that God has declared righteous also the reprobate? If not, how are you able to proclaim a true Gospel (good news) to all, as commanded, if you believe some are reprobated? Do you believe the Gospel is true, and good news, for all?
So that I understand your concept of justification, could you explain how sinners are justified and how their justification comes about?
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 12-09-2009 at 02:03 PM..
Reason: typos
Is it your belief that God has declared righteous also the reprobate? If not, how are you able to proclaim a true Gospel (good news) to all, as commanded, if you believe some are reprobated? Do you believe the Gospel is true, and good news, for all?
That is not our responsibility to know who the elect are. Our job is only to preach the gospel and let the power of God's word produce salvation so God can get the glory.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 12-09-2009 at 02:17 PM..
That is not our responsibility to know the elect are. Our job is only to preach the gospel and let the power of God's word produce salvation.
Yes, the common rebuttal...LOL Do you hold to the doctrine of reprobation? And if so why, when you know the good news, and you know this good news is to be proclaimed to all.
Could you explain to me your concept of Justification and how it comes about?
Yes, the common rebuttal...LOL Do you hold to the doctrine of reprobation? And if so why, when you know the good news, and you know this good news is to be proclaimed to all.
Could you explain to me your concept of Justification and how it comes about?
It's not a common rebuttal, it's the truth furthermore it's scriptural. Justification is God declaring those righteous who receive Christ.
It's not a common rebuttal, it's the truth furthermore it's scriptural. Justification is God declaring those righteous who receive Christ.
It is a common rebuttal, and it's common for those who do not truly understand where justification comes from. Sinners are declared righteous at the cross by the work of Christ, not by what they do:
Rom 4:25 who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 12-09-2009 at 02:31 PM..
Reason: typo
It is a common rebuttal, and it's common for those who do not truly understand where justification comes from. Sinners are declared righteous at the cross by the work of Christ, not by what they do:
Rom 4:25 who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous.
doing?????? I said, receiving Christ.
(Romans 3:21–26)
21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory
...
We are justified, declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation as we receive the full maniefestation of what Christ did on the cross. Justification does not make us righteous, but pronounces us righteous. Our righteousness comes from placing our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
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