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Old 10-22-2009, 01:27 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,810,005 times
Reputation: 1300

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Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
I appreciate your apparent sincerity and concern for me and the 14,000,000 or so followers of Jesus Christ who KNOW LDS beliefs and that they are good and of God.

You fail to understand our beliefs, that's why I suppose ten times or more I have invited you to an appropriate thread where we can have a calm civil discussion about the things about us you fear most likely because you have not studied at the right places. I too would have concerns if I believed what is taught about us on anti-Mormon sites. But I've LIVED Mormon for more than 40 years, I KNOW the truth about Mormons, and I'm perfectly content.

I invite you to come over to the "Mormons Made Simple" thread and post one comment or ask one specific question at a time and I'll try to help you understand why you are kicking against the pricks when you fight the Latter-day Saints even though you may think you are doing what's right (as did Paul when he fought the former day Saints.)

http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion-philosophy/780526-mormons-made-simple-learn-about-discuss.html

See you there.
Thanks, but I can read what has been published. I have talked to many Mormons. When Mormon doctrine says:

If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,

that needs no clarification. It doesn't need a Dr. of theology degree to see that this isn't Christian. Just read the Bible, its not in there. Your allowing the 40 years to convinced yourself that onions are not onions.

What difference would it make that I would point to how many years I've been a Christian? That doesn't mean anything other than boasting. So I've been in Christianity for 50 years...so what, big deal. I tell you the truth, those who only have been a Christian for 1 hour have pleased Heavenly Father more than you have in 40 years as a Mormon.
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Old 10-22-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 2,952,673 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Thanks, but I can read what has been published. I have talked to many Mormons. When Mormon doctrine says:

If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that needs no clarification. It doesn't need a Dr. of theology degree to see that this isn't Christian. Just read the Bible, its not in there. Your allowing the 40 years to convinced yourself that onions are not onions.

What difference would it make that I would point to how many years I've been a Christian? That doesn't mean anything other than boasting. So I've been in Christianity for 50 years...so what, big deal. I tell you the truth, those who only have been a Christian for 1 hour have pleased Heavenly Father more than you have in 40 years as a Mormon.
As I have probably told you many times before spin, you are not quoting from LDS canon. You are quoting from a book called "Mormon Doctrine" that is the opinions of one man who was counseled by the First Presidency NOT to publish his book because there are hundreds of statements of opinion in it that are not supported by the books in our canon.

I am sure that you could go to any church and find there scholars who have written books that present their own arbitrary opinions. The same thing exists among the millions of members of the LDS church.

By the way, almost everyone except just a few people who have apparently been so taught by their professional clergy, accepts the definition of "Christian" as being a follower of Jesus Christ. I too am a Christian, and have been a Christian longer than you have. So how about them onions eh?


I point out that I have been an active Mormon for 40 years to let board members know that it is almost certain that I know more TRUTH about the Mormons than does someone like yourself who has never been a member.

Anyway, so what if some of my religious beliefs are different than yours? Different beliefs seem to be the most common factor among the 38,000 Christian denominations. By your definition, if one has to believe the 4th century "trinity" doctrine to be a "Christian" then even the Lord's Apostles are not Christians because that unbiblical doctrine wasn't invented until hundreds of years after they died!
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Old 10-22-2009, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,959,041 times
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[quote=justamere10;11297024]Sure, there is a difference between doctrines of salvation and organization policies and procedures. Inspired programs change when inspiration/revelation is received by people with authority to make changes as circumstances and needs evolve over time, culture, and geography. It is my belief though that all the doctrines of salvation are available to us right now and we will be accountable at the judgment bar for how we treat them.

But we can receive individual guidance and revelation for our day to day living and necessary problem solving and comfort. God has not abandoned His children on earth to the opinions of scholars and paid professional clergy regardless of how much they would like to take over. Each of us can have a personal relationship with God. Each of us can benefit highly by opening our minds to the possibility that there were other prophets and writers who wrote books meant for our learning that are just as valid and just as valuable as the books scholars decided to put into today's bible.

But I understand the intense exclusive loyalty to the bible when you have been taught all your life that that's all you're going to get from God...[/quote]


See, the above in red is where it's clear that I'm not doing very well at making my point.

I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior PRIOR to any appreciation of scripture.

This is actually quite a turrnaround. A catholic being told he relys too much on scripture

Of course we should develope an intimate relationship with the Lord, with the Spirit's quidance.

I'm merely saying that I will weigh that against scripture.

It just appears that we are referring to different scripture.

Seems we have come full circle, and maybe we should just agree to disagree
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Old 10-22-2009, 03:20 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,810,005 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
I am sure that you could go to any church and find there scholars who have written books that present their own arbitrary opinions. The same thing exists among the millions of members of the LDS church.
No you would be wrong. If a person would write something wasn't true, they would be removed as a false teacher. I suspect that this statement was more revealing of than what was expected and there is no way of diverting the obvious.

Secondly, I never claimed it to be canon, the writer did.


"it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do"
2 Nephi 25:23 BOM

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Ephesians 2:8 & 9

Onions:

"Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints with it and see if it will stand the test"
(Brigham Young, May 18, 1873, Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 46.)

LDS doesn't stand the test.


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Old 10-22-2009, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
1,917 posts, read 6,304,971 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Forgive me for saying this, as i respect your right to believe as you will ...

But Joseph smith was a convicted-con artist, before he supposedly discovered the book of Mormon ...

Why on earth would someone want to believe in a book that he(Joseph Smith) supposedly found inscribed on a gold tablet that he said he later destroyed after he copied it onto paper ...


I never understood that ...
The apostle Paul was no angel either and millions now read and believe what he wrote in the New Testament. What is the difference?
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Old 10-22-2009, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,959,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTR36 View Post
The apostle Paul was no angel either and millions now read and believe what he wrote in the New Testament. What is the difference?

touche'
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Old 10-22-2009, 05:11 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,810,005 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTR36 View Post
The apostle Paul was no angel either and millions now read and believe what he wrote in the New Testament. What is the difference?
The message.
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:45 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,197,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTR36 View Post
The apostle Paul was no angel either and millions now read and believe what he wrote in the New Testament. What is the difference?
The difference is he was taught by Christ personally and was accepted by the other apostles. Other than that there are quite a few differences but i would not try and argue the point ... If you cant tell the difference by what they have written its pointless anyway.
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:59 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,304,236 times
Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTR36 View Post
The apostle Paul was no angel either and millions now read and believe what he wrote in the New Testament. What is the difference?
Paul was a "Jew of Jews", who saw the same Jesus as the Apostles had, only post resurrection, in Glorious Light.
Paul did not invent another Gospel. He was accepted by the Apostles of the LORD, who heard him in Jerusalem, at council [Acts 15], and who approved of him and his message as the same as theirs, only Paul was sent specifically to the Gentiles, by Jesus.
Paul did not teach one new thing and everything Paul wrote was ass a scribe, expounding on what was already written, in Enoch, and in the OT, and spoken by Jesus to His disciples and apostles, who informed Paul: Barnabas was one of the seventy disciples of Jesus, and became Paul's companion, explaining all to Paul. John Mark, Barnabas' cousin, was the son of Mary, whow as a follower of Jesus and whose house was used for gatherings of the disciples, and for the LAst Supper. Mark was there, and he was also a companion of Paul's.

Paul was left for dead once, when he was stoned, and had a visit to paradise above, whether in the body or out, he did not know; but what Paul saw there that was not formerly written of, Paul could not speak about, for it was unlawful to add anything to what was already given through the Law and the Prophets; and Jesus is the Last Prophet and the Last Word, from God, as YHWH come in flesh.
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