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Old 10-22-2009, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,971,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June supposes it is all in how one interprets "idol."

June tends to think that those "idols" that she hears to so much about are those things that people have a tendency to falsely 'worship' such that those things could be said interfere with their ability to have a true connection to God: Excessive work, bad/unhealthy relationships, excessive alcohol consumption, other substances (food, drugs, shopping, sex.) --In short, anything that a person would choose to invest themselves in -by default- rather than God. In the world of Christianity and belief, that is.

-At least that's how June interprets the term "idol" in the religious/biblical sense. (But June suspects she's alone in that interpreation, but hey, she's June!)



Yes.

There may be many different interpretations and/or understandings of who and what Jesus was and is. But there is absolutely no way you're going to convince even June that there wasn't one Jesus. Your understanding of the bible and who Jesus was and what he said and did may differ from that of someone of another denomination.

--But it would be incorrect to say that you all don't feel you worship the same Jesus.

-How many Jesus's could there have been?




I don't know.

Can you elaborate/explain more? --And which law are you referring to?


Take gentle care.
I maintain the answer is BOTH.

My suggestion, for whatever it's worth,

Don't get all hung up on the "law". Get hung up on LOVE

I'd suggest spending more time on the beatitudes
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Old 10-22-2009, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,822,905 times
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Default Doublespeak~

Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
Question from June:

I'm confused. On the one hand you state "I believe the law is done with for Christians" yet then say "When we surrender and put our trust in Him then we want to keep the law."

???


Signed,

The Ever Confused

This is what I call Christian doublespeak. They try to come up with something to justify the fact that the Bible is confusing. Keep the law, don't keep the law.....who knows! Pick one!
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Old 10-22-2009, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,822,905 times
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Default Yes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Ok Jehovah Witnesses , Mormons and Christians have the same Jesus?

Jehovah Witnesses think He is not the Son of God but Michael the arch angel

Mormons believe Him to be the brother of the devil and God's offspring

Christians believe Him to be God

Still think the same Jesus?

Same Jesus....well duh....yeah. Just a different view of him.
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Old 10-22-2009, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,822,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
Verna-

June's gotta tell ya, though:

1- "Believing" is not a cognitive process. It is NOT as simple as someone simply sitting down and making a choice.

2- If the only way a person knows whether or not they know God is by keeping and obeying his commandments, then that knocks June out of the running forever. -Not that she was ever exactly in the running in the first place, but this would seem to reinforce in her mind that there wasn't anywhere to run to begin with.

3- Point #2 would seem to be further reinforced and validated for June based on what you stated about how the blood of Jesus does not cover the likes of June.

Oh well.

June thanks you for your responding, willingness to try and help, though!



Take gentle care.

June! Thank you thank you thank you! I tried for 14 years to "believe"! They (church folks) made me feel like garbage about it! (that is their love). But you are right....you just can't choose to believe.
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Old 10-22-2009, 05:37 PM
 
37,650 posts, read 25,354,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
1- "Believing" is not a cognitive process. It is NOT as simple as someone simply sitting down and making a choice.

2- If the only way a person knows whether or not they know God is by keeping and obeying his commandments, then that knocks June out of the running forever. -Not that she was ever exactly in the running in the first place, but this would seem to reinforce in her mind that there wasn't anywhere to run to begin with.
This is why the literalists and fundamentalists (like Verna, et al.) lose their understanding. They believe it is a cognitive expression of acceptance (or denial) of one or another interpretation of written scripture. Believing (as you clearly know) is far more fundamental to who you actually ARE . . . NOT what you cognitively acknowledge or reject. A "believer" in Christ approaches life and others as Christ would . . . whether or not they even know who He was or can actually do so as perfectly as He did. Believers in Christ LIVE as people who seem to "naturally"( their inner Jesus) treat others as we believe Christ would because that is who they ARE. All else is human vanity.
Quote:
3- Point #2 would seem to be further reinforced and validated for June based on what you stated about how the blood of Jesus does not cover the likes of June.
Jesus's human consciousness is part of ALL human consciousness and therefore cannot help but cover yours, June. If your "self" resonates with the love that Jesus possessed (however minutely or completelyj/k) . . . you are golden.

Take gentle consciousness care,
Mystic
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,130,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Christy...it's God's love toward us that is steadfast while we are still yet in our sin...nothing can separate His love for us...and the way He demonstrated His love for us, while we were still yet sinners, is He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever would believe in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life with Him.

God designed to deliver from sin, and to work a great change. While the sinful state continues, God loathes the sinner, and the sinner loathes God.

God, in His infinite love and mercy, had pity upon His people. He promised to cleanse them, to take away their sinful nature and place His Spirit within them so that they would HAVE THE ABILITY to walk holy and blameless before Him IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDMENTS.

"A new heart also will I give to you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh: and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments, and do them." (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
Exactly...Salvation is a work first and last of God and not of man choosing. Some God will choose and some He won't...this is why in the end God will have mercy on ALL.
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,130,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
June! Thank you thank you thank you! I tried for 14 years to "believe"! They (church folks) made me feel like garbage about it! (that is their love). But you are right....you just can't choose to believe.
No you can't...only God can do that for you. God chooses you and then you are able to choose God.
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,130,528 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June supposes it is all in how one interprets "idol."

June tends to think that those "idols" that she hears to so much about are those things that people have a tendency to falsely 'worship' such that those things could be said interfere with their ability to have a true connection to God: Excessive work, bad/unhealthy relationships, excessive alcohol consumption, other substances (food, drugs, shopping, sex.) --In short, anything that a person would choose to invest themselves in -by default- rather than God. In the world of Christianity and belief, that is.

-At least that's how June interprets the term "idol" in the religious/biblical sense. (But June suspects she's alone in that interpreation, but hey, she's June!)



Yes.

There may be many different interpretations and/or understandings of who and what Jesus was and is. But there is absolutely no way you're going to convince even June that there wasn't one Jesus. Your understanding of the bible and who Jesus was and what he said and did may differ from that of someone of another denomination.

--But it would be incorrect to say that you all don't feel you worship the same Jesus.

-How many Jesus's could there have been?




I don't know.

Can you elaborate/explain more? --And which law are you referring to?


Take gentle care.
Christy thinks that June the "little heathen" is more spiritually mature and has more spiritual insight than alot of people I've encountered on this forum. You Go Girl!!
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:21 PM
 
7,790 posts, read 10,469,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
June! Thank you thank you thank you! I tried for 14 years to "believe"! They (church folks) made me feel like garbage about it! (that is their love). But you are right....you just can't choose to believe.
You are more than welcome, x3.

June just doesn't regard 'faith' as the same cognitive process as choosing to follow a strict set of laws. Faith is far more illusive, or at least that is how June tends to think of it. The one thing that June would disagree with in your post is the comment about how 'church folks' made you feel badly and saying that that was "their love." -Actually, June could see her way clear to thinking that perhaps it might well have been! (Perhaps not to the extent of making one feel really bad about one self, but you know what June is getting at here, she suspects.) June would surmise that people who are very invested in their beliefs, and adhere to them as such, would -hopefully- want the best for others. June doesn't think there is anything wrong with that. June also thinks that sometimes people unknowingly blur boundaries (even cross some) and honestly do so believing that they have good reason and cause.

They don't have to be beaten up on. None of us can truly speak for what is in another person's best interest. We can try, and we can suggest, and possibly even help. However, when it comes to something like faith, unless there is a way for someone to sign June up for a cognitive behaviorally based faith class, she's not so sure that her 'choice' would make sense to those who believe, any more than theirs can always make sense to her. At least on a personal level.

-But again, there are always caveats, and exceptions...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhd.
They believe it is a cognitive expression of acceptance (or denial) of one or another interpretation of written scripture. Believing (as you clearly know) is far more fundamental to who you actually ARE . . .

If your "self" resonates with the love that Jesus possessed (however minutely or completelyj/k) . . . you are golden.

Take gentle consciousness care,

If people want to believe that faith, belief, and so forth is a cognitively based process, then despite the fact that June doesn't see it that way, June can be accepting of that. -And will continue to hope that others can be accepting of her, as well. June's not so sure about your stating that believing is 'fundamental to who we actually are," though. Her hesitancy is due to the fact that she isn't all that sure that believing is fundamental to her.

Take gentle pre-conscious care.
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,251,709 times
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[quote=ChristyGrl;11305333]...this is why in the end God will have mercy on ALL.[/quote]...No, this is your doctrine Christy, false doctrine...not the Word of God. I stand upon the Word of God, the Scriptures...so you and I just have to agree to disagree.

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