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Old 10-24-2009, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,415,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes, Jesus is God, (see John 1:1)

Jesus emptied himself of his right to act as God...his authority,
and had to rely completely on the father, just as all normal humans do.

The way Jesus emptied himself of his right to act as God brings him down to our level and makes him truly human....
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
God did not change his nature...
God cant lie,
God cant be evil
God is always good
God always seeks the best for us.

But as we learn in John1:1, God became flesh and lived among us.

So the nature of the WORD never changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
My guess?.... as I wrote, that he emptied himself of his right to act as God so that he could rely completely on the Father for everything....as we humans all do...

My guess is also that the word we might use that we mostly understand would be the word "authority"....

The WORD was always God, but in the effort to save us the WORD became man.

still 100% God
Now also 100% man too
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Jesus did not deprive himself of his own Godhood...

A better way to understand what Jesus did was that he gave up some of the attributes of being God...like his authority.
This then allowed him to rely on the father...and that is important because unless Jesus had to rely on the father like we do we would never be sure his resurrection would be the same as ours...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
well.....not really...
God is always God
God will always be God

God cant become less God, or become more God.

Jesus is 100% God
and...
100% human

Jesus has 2 natures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes, very true!
Jesus is fully and 100% human!

as such he has to be just like me or else the text lies when it says: "The WORD became flesh"

If Jesus was less than human then that would mean his resurrection was moot and would be different that ours who are human.

But because Jesus was 100% human then we can trust that His resurrection of his human body will work for our humans bodies too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes, being that Jesus was 100% human as well as 100% God, he had the same human type body that all humans have.

It was his human body that died...

But remember, the nature of Jesus that is fully100% God Almighty did not die.....it cant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
yes, Jesus came looking like a normal human.
But as we know that Jesus was without sin,,,,this points out how you cant judge a book.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I once heard my Bible teacher tell the class that a better reading of John 1:1 would be "God was the Word"
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Jesus is now and will always be fully 100% human.
Now I would not want to say that the 'real" name of Jesus is how I say the word "Jesus", but aside from the different ways to say His name, it is still His name!

The humanity of Jesus is still there with the father in heaven...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I have no idea where you got that idea?...LOL

The Body of Jesus is, His body....
Jesus is a real person.
Jesus is in heaven right now, in the flesh.

One day I too will join Jesus in heaven in the flesh

an everlasting body of flesh and bone is...."Everlasting"
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
They are 3 separate persons.

all are called God
all are equal to each other in nature, and yet have different positions in their relationship to each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes,,,it is a stunning thing that God did for humans.

God is a God that can't die, yet he found a way to die the same death that we humans die....

That is the very heart of the incarnation...
That God become flesh and died on a cross...that we might live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
That is what the Bible teaches...
We will be like him (1 John 3:2 )
Jesus is fully Human.
He died a normal human death.
God rose him from the dead in an everlasting body of flesh and bone.

Some day I too will rise from the dead in the same type of human body.
I too will rise up off the earth as Jesus did, and I too will meet the Lord in the air.

This is the Christian message of the Resurrection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
They were never the same person...

John 1:1 - The Word was WITH God remember?

The Son was never the Father.
The Son has the same nature as the father
The son and the Father are equal in their nature, (their nature is the one true God)
But that have been, are now, and will always be separate persons within the united Trinity
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I believe what i have said is what I have always said...and that would be the following:
That God is the Word.
That the Word became flesh
That the Word died on a cross
That the word rose from the dead in an everlasting body of flesh and bone.
That one day I too will rise in a human body with the same nature as the body Christ has now.

That Jesus is now, and will always be human.
This is why we can call Jesus our "brother" because we share the same human nature.

I cant call "God" my brother because I do not share the nature of God.
But I can call Jesus my brother because he is 100% human.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
The Word became flesh...
It is simply ridiculous that you think this is an adequate refutation of what I presented. You simply repeat yourself over and over, yet provide no proof.
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:12 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,495,871 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Are you having trouble understanding what I am saying or what?

........

Yet you are one of those flat earth, sun moving type people still.
....frustration: West's Encyclopedia of American Law (Full Article) from Answers.com
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:20 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,495,871 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
It is simply ....
Thanks for posting about all I have ever posted on this topic.
It shows your interst in my words....and a lot of effort on your part.

As I read my words I enjoyed how I always try to stick in one or two Bible verses into each post.
I like fully supporting my views in such a manner.

To review:
In the beginning was the Word.
The Word was with God
The Word was God
The Word became Flesh.

Jesus was born and lived among us.
Jesus died, and and God raised Him from the dead.

Because Jesus was a 100% human just like we are, we can look at his resurrection and know that if the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is in us, He will likewise cause our bodies to come to everlasting life at the return of Christ to this world.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:15 PM
 
32 posts, read 39,502 times
Reputation: 11
Default makes no sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
My guess?.... as I wrote, that he emptied himself of his right to act as God so that he could rely completely on the Father for everything....as we humans all do...

My guess is also that the word we might use that we mostly understand would be the word "authority"....

The WORD was always God, but in the effort to save us the WORD became man.

still 100% God
Now also 100% man too


If Jesus was god and he gave up acting as a god as you said, than he could not still be 100% god if he gave up acting as a god and had to rely
completey on another God.


how you doing?
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:17 PM
 
32 posts, read 39,502 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Jesus did not deprive himself of his own Godhood...

A better way to understand what Jesus did was that he gave up some of the attributes of being God...like his authority.
This then allowed him to rely on the father...and that is important because unless Jesus had to rely on the father like we do we would never be sure his resurrection would be the same as ours...

Jesus gave up authority?

to who because he had authority on earth.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:20 PM
 
32 posts, read 39,502 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The point is that Jesus Christ did NOT empty himself. That is a bad translation from which the false doctrine of Kenosis has developed. The true doctrine of Kenosis is that He simply refrained from, or chose not to use His deity in accordance to the Fathers plan. That is a very big difference.

He did not deprive Himself of Godhood. He deprived Himself of the USE OF His deity. He chose, He made a choice to not use His deity. He never stopped being God.


Jesus did not use his deity when he turned water into wine or when he walked on water?
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:41 PM
 
20,352 posts, read 15,730,497 times
Reputation: 7497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
Jesus did not use his deity when he turned water into wine or when he walked on water?
The miracles that Jesus performed were done in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Recall the temptations of Jesus in the desert. In Matt. 4:3 And the tempter came and said to Him, ''If you are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.'' Satan was tempting Jesus to use His own deity to act independently of the Fathers plan, which called for Christ to rely on the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

In Matt. 12:28 Jesus said, ''But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.'' The Pharisee's had been accusing Jesus of performing miracles through the power of Satan, when in fact, He had been performing the miracles under the power of the Holy Spirit.
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:19 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,495,871 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
If Jesus was god and he gave up acting as a god as you said,
Yes, the WORD became flesh.
Jesus is both human and God....The 2 natures in the one person.

This human nature allowed God to be born....even if God is eternal.
This human nature allowed God to die....even if God can never die.
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:21 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,495,871 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
Jesus gave up authority?

to who .

Not "to who"...but "for what end?"

That is the real question...because for ourselves and our salvation Christ came into the world to save sinners...
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Old 10-24-2009, 08:23 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,495,871 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
Jesus did not use his deity when he turned water into wine or when he walked on water?
No,

Jesus had to rely completely on the Father for all the works that he did....
This is so we would see Jesus as our human brother, because we have to also rely on the father for all the works that god does in us....

By himself Jesus could do NOTHING!
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