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Old 10-25-2009, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
No,

Jesus had to rely completely on the Father for all the works that he did....
This is so we would see Jesus as our human brother, because we have to also rely on the father for all the works that god does in us....

By himself Jesus could do NOTHING!
Then he wasn't and isn't God almighty.... that makes sense because I am not God yet I rely on God. How is it you think God needed to rely on himself as God to accomplish these things.. God doesn't need God in order to perform miracles... You are saying that God needed God to do miracles..

Yet Jesus is God? I just don't understand that. Please explain what you mean here.
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:22 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,492,706 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You are saying that God needed God to do miracles..

Yet Jesus is God? I just don't understand that. Please explain what you mean here.
yes no problem, let me explain...


The WORD was with God.
The WORD was God

The WORD became flesh...

What does this mean?
It means that the nature of God is different that the nature of humans.
I am a father....I am a son....I am a husband.
All 3 titles are me, but Im not 3 different people, Im still only the one person.

God is different.
God is Father, God is Son, God is the Holy Spirit.
But in the case of God, these are not just titles, they are 3 different persons.

This is why the Son can talk to the Father.
The two persons can be with each other, just as t talks about they are in John 1:1.

Yet, the Son is also God.
That is the nature of the Son.

Then one day, the WORD (that is equal to the father, but is not the father) became human, wrapped in the flesh and blood of a human.

How did the WORD do this?......I don't have a clue.


But the Bible tells us that in order for the WORD to be fully equal to being a human that what the WORD did was give up the right to act as God.
This is the "Authority" I talked about before'

So the WORD is still 100% God Almighty in nature, but was able to put aside the authority of being God so that the human nature would be real.

As a normal human, the WORD had to rely completely on the Father for all the works that He did.
This proves to us that He was fully human as we are, because we also have to rely completely on the Father for all the works that we do too!
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:24 PM
 
32 posts, read 39,464 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The miracles that Jesus performed were done in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Recall the temptations of Jesus in the desert. In Matt. 4:3 And the tempter came and said to Him, ''If you are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.'' Satan was tempting Jesus to use His own deity to act independently of the Fathers plan, which called for Christ to rely on the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

In Matt. 12:28 Jesus said, ''But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.'' The Pharisee's had been accusing Jesus of performing miracles through the power of Satan, when in fact, He had been performing the miracles under the power of the Holy Spirit.



you said: Satan was tempting Jesus to use His own deity to act independently of the Fathers plan,


What??



pump the breaks, where in the scripture does it say that God the Father's plan was to have Jesus not use his superpower deity when he came t earth?
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:28 PM
 
32 posts, read 39,464 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes, the WORD became flesh.
Jesus is both human and God....The 2 natures in the one person.

This human nature allowed God to be born....even if God is eternal.
This human nature allowed God to die....even if God can never die.
Now what you just said aboved, is ...wow, I hope you are not a teacher.


So God died but not really?
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:31 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,492,706 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
Now what you just said aboved, is ...wow, I hope you are not a teacher.


So God died but not really?
God was never born, and so He is not naturally subject to age or to death.
God does not get old...
God has no sick days.
God is not subject to the passing of time as creation is.

God cant ever die...

But for the plan of salvation to work God became flesh,
...was born...
grew up, got older...
...and died for us,
that via faith in Him we might have life...

This is very basic Christianity 101
If you got any questions about this stuff, now is a good time to ask them....I got nothing else to do today due to the rain....
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:40 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,492,706 times
Reputation: 241
some of the best stuff from my hand in a while...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
yes no problem, let me explain...


The WORD was with God.
The WORD was God

The WORD became flesh...

What does this mean?
It means that the nature of God is different that the nature of humans.
I am a father....I am a son....I am a husband.
All 3 titles are me, but Im not 3 different people, Im still only the one person.

God is different.
God is Father, God is Son, God is the Holy Spirit.
But in the case of God, these are not just titles, they are 3 different persons.

This is why the Son can talk to the Father.
The two persons can be with each other, just as it talks about they are in John 1:1.

Yet, the Son is also God.
That is the nature of the Son.

Then one day, the WORD (that is equal to the father, but is not the father) became human, wrapped in the flesh and blood of a human.

How did the WORD do this?......I don't have a clue.


But the Bible tells us that in order for the WORD to be fully equal to being a human that what the WORD did was give up the right to act as God.
This is the "Authority" I talked about before'

So the WORD is still 100% God Almighty in nature, but was able to put aside the authority of being God so that the human nature would be real.

As a normal human, the WORD had to rely completely on the Father for all the works that He did.
This proves to us that He was fully human as we are, because we also have to rely completely on the Father for all the works that we do too!
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Old 10-25-2009, 01:21 PM
 
20,330 posts, read 15,701,005 times
Reputation: 7467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
you said: Satan was tempting Jesus to use His own deity to act independently of the Fathers plan,


What??



pump the breaks, where in the scripture does it say that God the Father's plan was to have Jesus not use his superpower deity when he came t earth?
Refer back to post #5 and READ it.
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Old 10-25-2009, 01:37 PM
 
32 posts, read 39,464 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
God was never born, and so He is not naturally subject to age or to death.
God does not get old...
God has no sick days.
God is not subject to the passing of time as creation is.

God cant ever die...

But for the plan of salvation to work God became flesh,
...was born...
grew up, got older...
...and died for us,
that via faith in Him we might have life...

This is very basic Christianity 101
If you got any questions about this stuff, now is a good time to ask them....I got nothing else to do today due to the rain....


again, i asked if god dies you said yes, than you said god cant die.

I will asked again did God die, a simple yes or no please no fluff talking.



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Old 10-25-2009, 01:40 PM
 
32 posts, read 39,464 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Refer back to post #5 and READ it.


Yeah i read it, I did not see you post any scripture that supports this:


where in the scripture does it say that God the Father's plan was to have Jesus not use his superpower deity when he came t earth?



if there are no scripture to support this plan that god had for Jesus, than this is your scripture not God's scripture.



HOW YOU DOING?
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:45 PM
 
20,330 posts, read 15,701,005 times
Reputation: 7467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
Yeah i read it, I did not see you post any scripture that supports this:


where in the scripture does it say that God the Father's plan was to have Jesus not use his superpower deity when he came t earth?



if there are no scripture to support this plan that god had for Jesus, than this is your scripture not God's scripture.



HOW YOU DOING?
You saw. But you did not comprehend.

The Kenosis of Christ. Phil 2:6-8 He took upon Himself the form of a servant.

The whole point of the temptations of Christ in Matthew 4:1-11 was for Him to resist Satan's attempts to get Him to act independently from the Father by using His own deity.

He refrained from using His deity independently from the Fathers will. Example: Luke 2:40-52 In his humanity, Christ had to learn. The only way He could learn anything was to not use His omniscience.

Hebrews 2:9-18 Since Jesus was the prototype, the example for how the believer is to live the Christian life, by depending on the enabling power of God the Holy Spirit, Christ also depended on the Holy Spirit.

Isa. 11:2 And the Spirit of the LORD (The Holy Spirit) will rest on Him...

Since Deity Cannot Die, and cannot be confined to a Cross, it was necessary for Christ to become the God-man. It was his humanity ONLY, that went to the Cross and died. (Luke 2:11; Phil. 2:7-8; Heb. 2:14-15)

John 8:28 Jesus therefore said, ''When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.


If you really are interested in answers and are not just an unbelieving skeptic asking questions for the sake of arguing, then do yourself a favor and look at the Bible commentaries regarding the various verses given.

Here's one you can try: Online Parallel Bible: Weaving God's Word into the Web

Also, research the doctrine of Kenosis,(the true doctrine, not the false), and the doctrine of the Hypostatic union of Christ.
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