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Old 10-23-2009, 03:09 PM
 
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Malachi 3:6: "I the LORD do not change


Some Christians believe that Jesus is God,
and it is taught that god emptied himself, of what,
this is still unclear, but in any case god was full of whatever He emptied Himself of as it is taught.

Did God contradict His own word?
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:26 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,565,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
Malachi 3:6: "I the LORD do not change


Some Christians believe that Jesus is God,
and it is taught that god emptied himself, of what,
t
Yes, Jesus is God, (see John 1:1)

Jesus emptied himself of his right to act as God...his authority,
and had to rely completely on the father, just as all normal humans do.

The way Jesus emptied himself of his right to act as God brings him down to our level and makes him truly human....
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes, Jesus is God, (see John 1:1)

Jesus emptied himself of his right to act as God...his authority,
and had to rely completely on the father, just as all normal humans do.

The way Jesus emptied himself of his right to act as God brings him down to our level and makes him truly human....



Malachi 3:6: "I the LORD do not change

so God did change.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:18 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,565,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
Malachi 3:6: "I the LORD do not change

so God did change.
God did not change his nature...
God cant lie,
God cant be evil
God is always good
God always seeks the best for us.

But as we learn in John1:1, God became flesh and lived among us.

So the nature of the WORD never changed.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:47 PM
 
21,591 posts, read 16,583,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes, Jesus is God, (see John 1:1)

Jesus emptied himself of his right to act as God...his authority,
and had to rely completely on the father, just as all normal humans do.

The way Jesus emptied himself of his right to act as God brings him down to our level and makes him truly human....
Jesus did not empty Himself of deity. That is a bad translation of Phil 2:7 and leads to the false doctrine of kenosis as opposed to the true doctrine of Kenosis.

The correct translation of Phil 2:7 is '' But he deprived himself of the proper function of deity, having assumed the form or essence of a slave, having become in likeness of mankind [without the old sin nature but with the human spirit] (translation is by Robert B. Thieme JR., in booklet 'Celebrityship of Jesus Christ' p.13)

The KJV translates Phil 2:7 as ''But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.''

In becoming a member of the human race, Jesus simply refrained from using his deity. He did not empty himself of his deity.

'' 3. Under true Kenosis, Christ did not surrender any attribute of His deity in coming to this earth. He voluntarily restricted the independent use of expression of His divine attributes in order to comply with the Father's Plan for the incarnation. In becoming the God-Man, He was in subjection to the Father's Plan of the Cross. Although in His deity Christ is coeqal with the Father, in His humanity he was submissive to the Father. To accomplish this, He had to have free will (Matt. 26:39) like all members of the human race. The entire issue in the angelic conflict is human volition, which coexists with divine and angelic volition.

In order to submit His will to the Father's, Christ limited His omnipotence. The only way He could do this was to refuse to use His omnipotence, omniscience, etc., for His own benefit or His own glory. His Kenosis was challenged in the great temptation of Matthew 4:1-10. The temptations by the devil were unique; they could have been leveled only at the God-Man, the unique Person of the universe.

4. To execute the Father's plan for the First Advent, the humanity of Christ relied on the ministry of the Holy Spirit, who indwelt Him from the cradle (Isa.11:2); also He relied on Bible doctrine (Luke 2:40-52). By the time He was twelve years of age, Jesus Christ was a super-grace person. (Spiritually mature-parenthesis mine).

5. Therefore, in this context, the expression of His deity or the independent exercise of His divine attributes was not a treasure to be retained and at the same time provide our so-great salvation.''

(3.,4.,5., from 'The Celebrityship of Jesus Christ, Robert B.Thieme JR.p.15,16)

Alan, I thought I was posting this on the OP's post. But I'm just going to leave it here as I just don't want to have to retype it all. Sometimes I just don't know what I'm doing.

Last edited by Mike555; 10-23-2009 at 06:02 PM..
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:47 PM
 
32 posts, read 40,206 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
God did not change his nature...
God cant lie,
God cant be evil
God is always good
God always seeks the best for us.

But as we learn in John1:1, God became flesh and lived among us.

So the nature of the WORD never changed.


so what did god empty of himself in john 1:1?
like he did when he came to earth?
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:53 PM
 
21,591 posts, read 16,583,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
so what did god empty of himself in john 1:1?
like he did when he came to earth?
See post #5. I inadvertenly posted it to Alan's post, but it was meant for you.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:58 PM
 
32 posts, read 40,206 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Jesus did not empty Himself of deity. That is a bad translation of Phil 2:7 and leads to the false doctrine of kenosis as opposed to the true doctrine of Kenosis.

The correct translation of Phil 2:7 is '' But he deprived himself of the proper function of deity, having assumed the form or essence of a slave, having become in likeness of mankind [without the old sin nature but with the human spirit] (translation is by Robert B. Thieme JR., in booklet 'Celebrityship of Jesus Christ' p.13)

The KJV translates Phil 2:7 as ''But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.''

In becoming a member of the human race, Jesus simply refrained from using his deity. He did not empty himself of his deity.

'' 3. Under true Kenosis, Christ did not surrender any attribute of His deity in coming to this earth. He voluntarily restricted the independent use of expression of His divine attributes in order to comply with the Father's Plan for the incarnation. In becoming the God-Man, He was in subjection to the Father's Plan of the Cross. Although in His deity Christ is coeqal with the Father, in His humanity he was submissive to the Father. To accomplish this, He had to have free will (Matt. 26:39) like all members of the human race. The entire issue in the angelic conflict is human volition, which coexists with divine and angelic volition.

In order to submit His will to the Father's, Christ limited His omnipotence. The only way He could do this was to refuse to use His omnipotence, omniscience, etc., for His own benefit or His own glory. His Kenosis was challenged in the great temptation of Matthew 4:1-10. The temptations by the devil were unique; they could have been leveled only at the God-Man, the unique Person of the universe.

4. To execute the Father's plan for the First Advent, the humanity of Christ relied on the ministry of the Holy Spirit, who indwelt Him from the cradle (Isa.11:2); also He relied on Bible doctrine (Luke 2:40-52). By the time He was twelve years of ge, Jesus Christ was a super-grace person. (Spiritually mature-parenthesis mine).

5. Therefore, in this context, the expression of His deity or the independent exercise of His divine attributes was not a treasure to be retained and at the same time provide our so-great salvation.''

(3.,4.,5., from 'The Celebrityship of Jesus Christ, Robert B.Thieme JR.p.15,16)

Alan, I thought I was posting this on the OP's post. But I'm just going to leave it here as I just don't want to have to retype it all. Sometimes I just don't know what I'm doing.



you said god deprived himself of deity, is that not the same as surrender his deity?

if not whats the difference?
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Old 10-23-2009, 05:02 PM
 
32 posts, read 40,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
See post #5. I inadvertenly posted it to Alan's post, but it was meant for you.


This would also mean that god change form never surrending his deity in the OT to surrendering in the NT when the scripture saids God never changes.
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Old 10-23-2009, 05:12 PM
 
32 posts, read 40,206 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
See post #5. I inadvertenly posted it to Alan's post, but it was meant for you.


Jesus was 100% god and man as it is taught by man, now if he emptied himself he could not be 100% of something because he let something go.
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