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Old 10-29-2009, 10:20 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,436,876 times
Reputation: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I know. You would think that people would be eager to seek out the truth in order to throughly understand the word of God. But instead, people get caught up in these distortions and perversions of the truth, and have no interest whatsoever in listening to anyone who knows what they are talking about.

Well, there are many who consider themselves to be Christian, but who are going to find out the hard way, that Christ never knew them.

As it says in John 8:47, ''He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.''
Yea, I know. God said that these things would happen.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,400,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
This is not an arguement, I believe and see what scripture says.

Show me scripture that says that Jesus is not God!!

I don't undestand you because you are not understandable.

I didn't ask you to quote anything, I asked you to give me scripture that says that Jesus is not God.
Show me scripture that says a person is not one person.

I gave you many that state that God is the one and only God.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:23 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,436,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Show me scripture that says a person is not one person.

I gave you many that state that God is the one and only God.
NO, answer my question, show me scripture that says that Jesus is not God.

You gave me something that I didn't ask for, God is one, I never said that He was three different persons, meaning three different Gods. There is only one God, and no other. The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, is one God.

Now show me scripture that says that Jesus is not God.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,400,495 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
NO, answer my question, show me scripture that says that that Jesus is not God.

You gave me something that I didn't ask for, God is one, I never said that He was three different persons, meaning three different Gods. There is only one God, and no other.

Now show me scripture that says that Jesus is not God.
No you say that three distinct personalities is one God.

Personality is defined by Websters as:
  1. the visible aspect of one's character as it impresses others
  2. a person as an embodiment of a collection of qualities
  3. the sum total of the physical, mental, emotional, and social characteristics of an individual.
  4. the organized pattern of behavioral characteristics of the individual.
and more..

Yet you say that it does not make three gods but one even though the three gods have separate personalities making them individuals.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:35 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,436,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
No you say that three distinct personalities is one God.

Personality is defined by Websters as:
  1. the visible aspect of one's character as it impresses others
  2. a person as an embodiment of a collection of qualities
  3. the sum total of the physical, mental, emotional, and social characteristics of an individual.
  4. the organized pattern of behavioral characteristics of the individual.
and more..

Yet you say that it does not make three gods but one even though the three gods have separate personalities making them individuals.
I take it you can't find scripture, show me scripture that says that Jesus is not God. You believe that He isn't God, so show me scripture?

You keep providing things that I didn't ask for, why is that?

I am waiting for your scripture to back up what you believe. Jesus is one with The Father, show me scripture that says that He is not one with the Father?

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 10-29-2009 at 10:43 PM..
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,400,495 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I take it you can't find scripture, show me scripture that says that Jesus is not God. You believe that He isn't God, so show me scripture?

You keep providing things that I didn't ask for, why is that?

I am waiting for your scripture to back up what you believe.
Trying to make a blatant point here.. I asked for a scripture that says the exact words "Jesus is God" or any claim by Jesus that says " I AM GOD" and you provided nothing except your interpretation....

Asking me to prove Jesus is not God is like me asking you to prove Jesus is God...

Neither one is in the bible.. In order for there to be the statement "Jesus is not God" there would have to be the statement "Jesus is God" then refuted. No one believed that Jesus is God so they didn't need to refute it.

I showed you verses that say God is one. I showed you verses that say God is not a man. I showed you verses that say Christ was flesh and blood and a man separate from God. But you know and agree to these things so you change the meaning of words so that Jesus can be God...

That is like asking an atheist to prove there is no God.. you cannot prove there is one so why would you expect them to prove the negative of that?



If you want I will list all of the verses I believe show that God cannot be human nor Jesus or any other. I can also provide scripture to show that Jesus did not profess to be God.... I can also provide scripture to show that the bible says anyone who denies Jesus is flesh and blood is anti-christ..

You cannot make a solid argument that Jesus is God... Simple as that. You provide 6-10 verses.. I can support my position with many more.
Is this a test of quantity of supporting evidence? You will lose unless you redefine how God is one God by saying he can be three in one which again is not supported in any scripture.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,436,876 times
Reputation: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Trying to make a blatant point here.. I asked for a scripture that says the exact words "Jesus is God" or any claim by Jesus that says " I AM GOD" and you provided nothing except your interpretation....

Asking me to prove Jesus is not God is like me asking you to prove Jesus is God...

Neither one is in the bible.. In order for there to be the statement "Jesus is not God" there would have to be the statement "Jesus is God" then refuted. No one believed that Jesus is God so they didn't need to refute it.

I showed you verses that say God is one. I showed you verses that say God is not a man. I showed you verses that say Christ was flesh and blood and a man separate from God. But you know and agree to these things so you change the meaning of words so that Jesus can be God...

That is like asking an atheist to prove there is no God.. you cannot prove there is one so why would you expect them to prove the negative of that?



If you want I will list all of the verses I believe show that God cannot be human nor Jesus or any other. I can also provide scripture to show that Jesus did not profess to be God.... I can also provide scripture to show that the bible says anyone who denies Jesus is flesh and blood is anti-christ..

You cannot make a solid argument that Jesus is God... Simple as that. You provide 6-10 verses.. I can support my position with many more.
Is this a test of quantity of supporting evidence? You will lose unless you redefine how God is one God by saying he can be three in one which again is not supported in any scripture.
No, I provided scripture that shows that Jesus is God, and you admit that you can't find any scripture that says that Jesus is not God.

If you can support your position, then support it with scripture that says that Jesus is not God?

You showed me a verse that says that God is one, and I have been telling you all along that God is one, and I didn't ask for you to give me that verse.
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,400,495 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
No, I provided scripture that shows that Jesus is God, and you admit that you can't find any scripture that says that Jesus is not God.

If you can support your position, then support it with scripture that says that Jesus is not God?

You showed me a verse that says that God is one, and I have been telling you all along that God is one, and I didn't ask for you to give me that verse.
Like I said.. I believe simply that God is one. The ONLY one.. you include others in that one... Who is following scripture?

My position:
  1. Jesus is not all-knowing: Mark 24: 32-36
  2. Jesus never said "I am God." God says he is God quite plainly, so why would Jesus be so secretive about it? Should I take your word for it?
  3. Jesus says he is the son of man, we are told not to trust the son of man (Psalms 146:3) which is why Jesus says that God is his witness and he speaks God's words. When Jesus says you see me you see God it is because God is the only one we should trust.
  4. Jesus was GIVEN power and authority FROM GOD. This affirms that he has no God power on his own. (John 13:3; John 17:6-8; John 7:16; John 12:4; John 8:26; John 14:24)
  5. Jesus doesn't even say in secret to the disciples that he is God.. Why? Because they wouldn't have followed him. They never expected God to come in flesh as the prophet Messiah. Why doesn't he say "you are killing God" on the cross? Because no one would believe GOD was hanging on the cross, but we see that even the guards saw him die and believe he is the SON OF GOD. (Mark 15:39)
  6. Judaism teaches from the beginning that the Messiah was a man, a great prophet. Dying on the cross would negate that he was the Messiah which Jesus knew, he said specifically that they were blind to his purpose... He is Christ! He claimed to be Christ and affirms it. (John 20:31 after Thomas exclaims "My Lord, My God.")
  7. Jesus does not say to worship him, he says to worship who he worships.. the one true God. (Matt. 4:10) If he was God what is the problem with worshiping him? Trinitarians worship Jesus yet Jesus expressly states the opposite.
I will stop there and let you rebut it.
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:13 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,436,876 times
Reputation: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Like I said.. I believe simply that God is one. The ONLY one.. you include others in that one... Who is following scripture?

My position:
  1. Jesus is not all-knowing: Mark 24: 32-36
  2. Jesus never said "I am God." God says he is God quite plainly, so why would Jesus be so secretive about it? Should I take your word for it?
  3. Jesus says he is the son of man, we are told not to trust the son of man (Psalms 146:3) which is why Jesus says that God is his witness and he speaks God's words. When Jesus says you see me you see God it is because God is the only one we should trust.
  4. Jesus was GIVEN power and authority FROM GOD. This affirms that he has no God power on his own. (John 13:3; John 17:6-8; John 7:16; John 12:4; John 8:26; John 14:24)
  5. Jesus doesn't even say in secret to the disciples that he is God.. Why? Because they wouldn't have followed him. They never expected God to come in flesh as the prophet Messiah. Why doesn't he say "you are killing God" on the cross? Because no one would believe GOD was hanging on the cross, but we see that even the guards saw him die and believe he is the SON OF GOD. (Mark 15:39)
  6. Judaism teaches from the beginning that the Messiah was a man, a great prophet. Dying on the cross would negate that he was the Messiah which Jesus knew, he said specifically that they were blind to his purpose... He is Christ! He claimed to be Christ and affirms it. (John 20:31 after Thomas exclaims "My Lord, My God.")
  7. Jesus does not say to worship him, he says to worship who he worships.. the one true God. (Matt. 4:10) If he was God what is the problem with worshiping him? Trinitarians worship Jesus yet Jesus expressly states the opposite.
I will stop there and let you rebut it.
I don't have to rebut it because you didn't provide me with what I asked. You say that Jesus is not God, then show me scripture that says that Jesus is not God.

Being secretive does not provide or say that Jesus is not God. Jesus is the Son of man and the Son of God, that does not say anything about Him not being God.

Jesus was given power and authority while on earth, this does not say that Jesus is not God.

By you going and talking about His disciples does not provide or say anything about Jesus not being God.

I didn't ask about Judaism I asked you to give me scripture that says that Jesus is not God. You are only going around in circles.

By you saying that they never expected doesn't answer anything. All of this to say nothing.

And I ask you again provide me scripture that says that Jesus is not God?

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 10-30-2009 at 12:54 AM..
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:43 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,436,876 times
Reputation: 544
I will leave you with this, Kat, you refuse to see scripture, or you just don't want to admit that you are wrong.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 1:1
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.

The same Greek word is used in both occurrences of the word God in John 1:1. This same word is used in many contexts, whether it refers to the Only True God or whether it is referring to a false god - such as a man-made god or Satan as the god of this age. The apparent differences in spelling between the word God in the phrase and the Word was God (theos) and in other places, even in the previous phrase, and the Word was with God (theon) is due to inflection in the Greek language.

Each Greek noun normally has 8 or 9 forms cases & number in which it can appear. In the first instance in John 1:1 it is the object of preposition and thus is in the accusative case. In the phrase in question, it is in the nominative case, indicating the subject or predicate nominative - equal to the subject.

But it is the same word for God, and in both phrases here indicates the One and Only True God. So the apparent difference is spelling is not because theos is a different word than theon, but is a different form of the identical word.

In John 1:1 there is no definite article in front of the word God in the phrase, and the Word was God. However, in this instance, it cannot just be assumed that the word God is meant to be indefinite, and therefore an indefinite article used in the English translation.

Because the first use of the word God in John 1:1 the Word was with God clearly refers to the Only True God, the Eternal Pre-existent Creator, more than likely John would have used a different Greek construction than he did if he had meant for this next phrase and the Word was God to refer to a lesser god, and did not want us to confuse this with the True God he had just mentioned.

If John meant to avoid confusion, when making such a definitive statement, he could have done so by using this indefinite pronoun tis as an adjective. This would have made it clear that the Word was a certain god, but not the one he was just referring to.

There are several verses, I will just use Luke 18:27, where the same word is being used.

1 John 5:20, Jesus is called the true God, the true theos.

So, it seems that by the Greek grammatical structure in this statement, John is indicating that the Word (Jesus Christ - John 1:14) is the same essence and nature as God the Father.

It is also necessary to see this statement in context of the rest of John’s writings. When comparing this with other statements about who the person and nature of Jesus Christ really is, it adds to what is already made clear by the Greek grammar.

See for instance: John 8:56-59, with comparing to this verse- Exo. 3:13-14).

Philippian 2:7
who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Christ made Himself in the form of man, but as you see before He has the form of God. He is God.

These verses also indicate that, in John’s understanding and thus the Bible’s clear statements, Jesus Christ is the same essence and nature as God the Father, but distinct in their person-hood. All the verses except philippian, so you don't ge confused even more.

The same greek word that is used for Jesus is the same word used when talking about God. UMMM, looks like you are the one who need to do your research. Scriptures never lie.

It was nice with this little chat, but I have other things to do and work. Keep up what ever you are doing and you will continue going down the wrong road. I have other things to do.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 10-30-2009 at 01:10 AM..
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