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Old 10-30-2009, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,824,996 times
Reputation: 496

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
It is sad that you are blinded by the truth. Anyway, carry on.
(notice you say I am blinded by the TRUTH )


Translation:
"I have no rebuttal because my strawman was my last resort and I give up. I cannot prove Jesus is God but I will not admit that I am wrong so I will just admit overall defeat"



Carry on...
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:47 PM
 
79 posts, read 29,959 times
Reputation: 37
All of the attributes of God are placed INTO JESUS and belong in JESUS.

ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily dwells in Jesus. Colossians 2:9

Verse 8 warns us about people who IGNORE THIS FACT.
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Small Town USA
1,393 posts, read 1,433,635 times
Reputation: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenderman View Post
All of the attributes of God are placed INTO JESUS and belong in JESUS.

ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily dwells in Jesus. Colossians 2:9

Verse 8 warns us about people who IGNORE THIS FACT.
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,824,996 times
Reputation: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21)

“And the Father himself, which hath sent me, bore witness of Me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape” (John 5:37)

“And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” (Mark 10:18)

“And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.” (John 8:50)

“Jesus answered them and said, “my doctrine are not Mine, but His who sent Me” (John 7:16)

“he who does not love me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent me” (John 14:24)

For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak” (John 12:49)

“Jesus said to them, ‘My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work” (John 4:34)

“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent me” (John 6:38)

“saying, ‘Father, if it is your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not My will, but Yours, be done” (Luke 22:42)

I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me” (John 5:30)

“I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him” (John 13:16)

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28)

“Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me” (John 8:42)

“To sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father” (Matthew 20:23)

“So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me” (John 7:16)

Jesus had nothing. God is the one with the power and he gave the power to Jesus UNTIL -

1 Corinthians 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenderman View Post
All of the attributes of God are placed INTO JESUS and belong in JESUS.

ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily dwells in Jesus. Colossians 2:9

Verse 8 warns us about people who IGNORE THIS FACT.
That is right.. verse 8:
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ."

Human tradition is the trinity, that Jesus is God. It deceives people into thinking that the sacrifice was all for show because there was no real risk or sacrifice to God dying since God (even in human form) cannot cease to exist.

So you have to ask yourself.. Did Christ teach that he is God? Because if you follow simply because it is tradition then you are not following Christ.

Here are the verses that say that Jesus owned nothing but it was given to him for a time.. as in temporarily in order to complete the work of God.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:07 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,700,862 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
(notice you say I am blinded by the TRUTH )


Translation:
"I have no rebuttal because my strawman was my last resort and I give up. I cannot prove Jesus is God but I will not admit that I am wrong so I will just admit overall defeat"



Carry on...
Yes, I know what I said. You see it and you refuse it, you are blinded by it and it shows.

You can't prove that Jesus is not God defeat overcomes you.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,824,996 times
Reputation: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Yes, I know what I said. You see it and you refuse it, you are blinded by it and it shows.

You can't prove that Jesus is not God defeat overcomes you.
Ok I see.. I have been blinded by the truth that Jesus is not God.. you said it yourself... My belief - that blinds me to yours- is that Jesus is not God. So Jesus is not God is the truth..

I see your point. Thanks, I will take that as confirmation...



I was hoping that you would not admit your typo.. even though I assumed you meant I am blinded to the truth..or from the truth.. not by the truth...

Just goes to show that having an intelligent conversation with you is impossible because you refuse to admit you are wrong or in error in anyway.

If God himself came to you and said he is the ONE and ONLY God would you argue that it wasn't really God? Is that how indoctrinated you really are?

It is sad to see but again... if you choose not to reason and use logic in conjunction with the Spirit of God to read the bible.. nothing I say will make a difference. I can deal with that. I don't have to be right.. just so happens that you did not prove your case.
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,852 posts, read 3,209,432 times
Reputation: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Yes, I know what I said. You see it and you refuse it, you are blinded by it and it shows.

You can't prove that Jesus is not God defeat overcomes you.
And you can't "PROVE" that he is....so let's just all agree to disagree and leave the snippy remarks to non-christians.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:01 PM
 
79 posts, read 29,959 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
That is right.. verse 8:
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ."

Human tradition is the trinity, that Jesus is God. It deceives people into thinking that the sacrifice was all for show because there was no real risk or sacrifice to God dying since God (even in human form) cannot cease to exist.

So you have to ask yourself.. Did Christ teach that he is God? Because if you follow simply because it is tradition then you are not following Christ.

Here are the verses that say that Jesus owned nothing but it was given to him for a time.. as in temporarily in order to complete the work of God.
Are you accusing king David of Israel of worshiping a false God? David called JESUS my LORD. Psalm 110:1 and Mark 12 :35-37

David did not have any earthly lord over him because he was the king. He himself states that Jesus is his Lord.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said: Let Us make man in Our image,according to Our likeness [first part of verse]
Who is the Us and the Our in this verse?
It is God the Father-God the Son- and God the Holy Ghost.

Until you can properly answer Jesus' question in Mark 12:35-37 you will never understand who Jesus really Is.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:13 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,366,168 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
However Trinitarians cannot show that Jesus is taught by anyone as being 100% God yet they still say it is necessary to believe it in order to be saved.
I am a strong Trinitarian
(and so I can speak to what we hold as essential truth)

We are saved by our faith in the Resurrection....

Not by our handle on the doctrine of the Trinity....
Not by our understanding of the Bread and Wine
Not by our knowledge of the Alpha and Omega

The only thing that makes us Christians is our faith in the Resurrection.

all the rest can be debated...
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,824,996 times
Reputation: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenderman View Post
Are you accusing king David of Israel of worshiping a false God? David called JESUS my LORD. Psalm 110:1 and Mark 12 :35-37
Let's look at the verses
Psalm 110:1

The Lord says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”



Here THE LORD is God Almighty and is the word "hashem" or the proper name of God: Jehovah. My Lord is the word "adon" which means ruler or master. Now both CAN be used for God, and I would not find it odd that God is called master or husband/ruler.. but in this case we can see that there are two distinct people. The Lord says to my Lord. In simple language inserting NT names we could read it as: God says to Jesus... Which makes perfect sense and has nothing to do with Jesus being God. We know that Jesus sits at God's right hand, that Jesus is our lord.

Then you bring up Mark 12:35-37:
35 While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, “How is it that the teachers of the law say that the Christ is the son of David?

36 David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:
“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’
37 David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?” The large crowd listened to him with delight.

They were saying Christ is the son of David.. How can Christ be the son of David when David called him Lord or master. I hope that helped.[/quote]Yes.. I think that was what the scribes were thinking too...But the crowd seemed to "delight" in it. We see that David and David's kingdom were a shadow of what was to come.
Luke 1:32-33 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.

David's kingdom ends but the kingdom which is founded on God through Christ will never end. Thus it is Greater than David's and Jesus as a king/lord is above David not to be confused with being an heir or son of David.

I believe the point was that they expected an earthly kingdom but Jesus was trying to show it is a heavenly kingdom.

Quote:
Genesis 1:26 Then God said: Let Us make man in Our image,according to Our likeness [first part of verse]
Who is the Us and the Our in this verse?
It is God the Father-God the Son- and God the Holy Ghost.
This interpretation of yours rests on a few pronouns so I have just one question about this verse.. Who was there to hear and record what was said so that you can take this word for word?

I personally attribute this to the majesty pronoun but that is just me.. In itself it does not prove three in one.. it could mean 45 in 1 or it could just mean 1...

Quote:
Until you can properly answer Jesus' question in Mark 12:35-37 you will never understand who Jesus really Is.
I believe Jesus answered it for me. Jesus is a greater king because he offered life free from the burden of sin, and so was David's master not David's son.

It kinda proves my point in that a son or heir or servant is not greater than the master. David was less than Jesus, and Jesus was less than God. God is the Almighty, Lord of Lords.
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