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Old 10-31-2009, 12:14 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,494,835 times
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A.E. KNOCH CONTRADICTIONS
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,412,771 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I will never reason with someone who is deceived.
So you don't witness to anyone about God's grace or gospel? Aren't you commissioned to do so? Have you ever considered that perhaps the deception is in your mind and not reality?

I don't think you are deceived nor do I think I am. I think that you choose to disregard all other views because you would be mocked and thrown from fellowship with others if you changed your view or were open to the thoughts of others..

I see that those who are so against discussions of this kind are afraid of reasoning. If the bible were more clear there would be no need for discussion but it isn't clear either way. If the bible said "Jesus is God, worship him" then we would not be having this discussion. However, it doesn't say that so how can you believe it? By using your own reasoning based on what you have been taught and popular opinion.

No hard feelings...
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,412,771 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
As I wrote on another occasion, I lived in Seattle and via a family friend I got introduced to Walter Martin.

YouTube - Is the True Living God a Trinity? By Walter Martin

This happened right at a time when because of some other friends I was dealing with the cult of the Jehovah's Witnesses .

I went seeking help, and I found help in both my church, and in other non-church connected ministries such a Saints Alive .

I also got a hold of the book, :The Kingdom Of The Cults....and that really turned me around and helped me understand how to reach out.

So while Seattle is a great place to get lost in the shuffle of life, I also found it a city of great opportunities for learning and spreading God's Word.
Ok I see.. I had never heard of Walter Martin before coming to this board.

He bugs me that he seems (to me) so smug. but that is just me.

Well, I am glad that the view of the trinity works for you. It didn't for me. It hindered my relationship with God because of the focus on the one who was sent rather than the sender. I do separate these two and I don't add them back into 1. To me Jesus was showing us God by his actions. He showed us the way to know God and live without barrier to God.

So I am glad that you found a way to God that works for you..

Blessings! God is great!

BTW - didn't you say that you weren't gonna post in a thread that had a messed up title? LOL just poking fun
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,412,771 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Nice and long just the way I like it...

and the website is a contradiction in it's self considering it is 1john57.com...

LOL 1 John 5:7-9 is that proven interpolation verse. Anyone who uses it ignores that scholars all agree it is not in the original but was added.

So whether or not AE Knoch contradicted himself or the bible.. doesn't the premise of the website negate itself with it's basis being an interpolation in scripture?

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Old 10-31-2009, 12:58 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,494,835 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
BTW - didn't you say that you weren't gonna post in a thread that had a messed up title? LOL just poking fun
Yes I still am very upset at the goofy title...it shows a lack of interest in editing one's words.

However the problem is that I find that even if I do not want to post on it, that when I get an email notice and someone has asked me a question or made a comment aimed at me, that I have to push past my own rules.

I still would hope that a title that is clearly goofed up could be fixed however...
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:09 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,494,835 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Ok I see.. I had never heard of Walter Martin before coming to this board.
and thus.....the story repeats itself in my life...

=======================
I spent months personally witnessing to a JW that stopped by my house.
I even went over to his house , a first to happen to him!

I had films to show him, I have videos, I had tapes, I had books, I had eye witness letters, I had a whole church in prayer to support me,,,

and oh yes, I also dropped off a few photocopies for him to look at after our meetings.

I practiced and practiced, I had whole hour long sermons memorized ...
I was in tip top form...

and it all became moot.
The JW just would not believe anything I said or did no matter how hard that I worked at it.

Then one day I saw him and his family at our church's "New Believer class!
After I talked to him about what had finally turned him around, I was a bit disappointed to learn that it was his Christian daughter that would go over my photocopies with him after our meetings, and it was her who broke down the Watchtower walls .

So my only real role in his salvation was to.....drop off some paper work

After all that work I put into him, all I really accomplished was to be the guy who pushed "COPY/Print" on my computer?


and once again I see the same thing happening now...

Its typical that my only real success in God's eyes on this forum was to mention in passing the name of Walter Martin...
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:25 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,355,196 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So you don't witness to anyone about God's grace or gospel? Aren't you commissioned to do so? Have you ever considered that perhaps the deception is in your mind and not reality?

I don't think you are deceived nor do I think I am. I think that you choose to disregard all other views because you would be mocked and thrown from fellowship with others if you changed your view or were open to the thoughts of others..

I see that those who are so against discussions of this kind are afraid of reasoning. If the bible were more clear there would be no need for discussion but it isn't clear either way. If the bible said "Jesus is God, worship him" then we would not be having this discussion. However, it doesn't say that so how can you believe it? By using your own reasoning based on what you have been taught and popular opinion.

No hard feelings...
I always share the gospel, and will never reason with someone who is deceived.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,129,874 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I already have
See Post #133....if you have any desire to actually learn something.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,412,771 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I always share the gospel, and will never reason with someone who is deceived.
I guess my point is that you aren't open to being witnessed to though. You think there is nothing to add to your repertoire of knowledge so how can you effectively witness to others.. would you say that you were deceived before you received the gospel? I was brought up Christian yet I can say that I still was unaware about many things and still am.

So you will share but cannot receive.. and by receive I don't mean accept or change your belief but have an intelligent discussion without labeling the other as non-comprehending, deceived, non-christian...etc.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,412,771 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
and thus.....the story repeats itself in my life...

=======================
I spent months personally witnessing to a JW that stopped by my house.
I even went over to his house , a first to happen to him!

I had films to show him, I have videos, I had tapes, I had books, I had eye witness letters, I had a whole church in prayer to support me,,,

and oh yes, I also dropped off a few photocopies for him to look at after our meetings.

I practiced and practiced, I had whole hour long sermons memorized ...
I was in tip top form...

and it all became moot.
The JW just would not believe anything I said or did no matter how hard that I worked at it.

Then one day I saw him and his family at our church's "New Believer class!
After I talked to him about what had finally turned him around, I was a bit disappointed to learn that it was his Christian daughter that would go over my photocopies with him after our meetings, and it was her who broke down the Watchtower walls .

So my only real role in his salvation was to.....drop off some paper work

After all that work I put into him, all I really accomplished was to be the guy who pushed "COPY/Print" on my computer?


and once again I see the same thing happening now...

Its typical that my only real success in God's eyes on this forum was to mention in passing the name of Walter Martin...
True.. it is when the person is given the time to reflect that they become aware of God's word. If you hound them you just use up energy..

I have no problem with JW's .. I don't think they are as happy and free as they could be but I wouldn't do what you did because that would be saying they are in error and that may turn them off to discovering the joy of the gospel as we know it. IMO
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