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Old 10-24-2009, 10:53 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,488,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Alan, I think he meant "Jesus as God" .
Once again I disagree with you...

"us" is a long way from "as"

That is what I believe the correct understanding for the OP's error is to understand that the title he ment to wrote was "Jesus is God"

"is" , where the letter "i" is right next to the letter "u" is clearly the intent of the OP

I believe the OP just typed too fast and hit the letter "u" rather than the letter"i"

I believe I may start a poll topic on this matter to see how many people also see the truth about the u/i mess up...and how many see it as the rather unlikely in my view a/u confusion?
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:59 PM
 
37,553 posts, read 25,261,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I would love to look at the site you present here but it won't work... Can you post an excerpt or another link?
My Web of Trust software flags the site as extremely dangerous. Probably not a good idea to pursue it.
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
My Web of Trust software flags the site as extremely dangerous. Probably not a good idea to pursue it.
Perhaps that is why it wouldn't show up as I use avast and it blocks them.. thanks! I have never heard of Web of trust..
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Once again I disagree with you...

"us" is a long way from "as"

That is what I believe the correct understanding for the OP's error is to understand that the title he ment to wrote was "Jesus is God"

"is" , where the letter "i" is right next to the letter "u" is clearly the intent of the OP

I believe the OP just typed too fast and hit the letter "u" rather than the letter"i"

I believe I may start a poll topic on this matter to see how many people also see the truth about the u/i mess up...and how many see it as the rather unlikely in my view a/u confusion?
LOL "a" vs "i"... that is the question! Either way I understand what the OP title meant...
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:24 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,819,724 times
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When Jesus said he was the I AM, they knew what he was claiming.
  • John 8:57-59 "At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself,...."
Later, Jesus claimed it again. Each time Jesus claimed that he was God, the harder it was for Jesus to escape being put to death
  • John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

What was the charge that eventually Jesus admitted to and was crucified for?......."blasphemy"



Why did the Jews demand from Pilot a Roman guard at the tomb? Because of another claim of Jesus that he was God.
  • "Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.....But the temple he had spoken of was his body"
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:16 PM
 
435 posts, read 1,048,671 times
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This one is exactly like - is a woman equal to a man question. And if you are not careful you will say according to scripture she is not. But she is. She is one with him, she came from him, they were created as one and at the same time. However their roles are different. And role does not define who you are. Same happens in the trinity. DONT LET THE ROLE OF THE INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF THE TRINITY CONFUSE YOU, ROLE DOES NOT DEFINE IDENTITY OR WHO ONE IS. And so if you can separate the two, the roles Jesus had to play (role of being the son of God, being the son of man, lamb of God etc), from His identity, that He is God, the WORD, EGO EMI (I AM), then it becomes easier to make sense of things. Things like the " The Father and I and one" , " if you have seen me you have seen the Father", " before Abraham was Ego Emi ". lol.
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:32 PM
 
435 posts, read 1,048,671 times
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Btw, it helps to consolidate. If you just zoom in on a few verses then you may loose the message. The fact that Jesus is God, it is based on the entire counsell of the bible, and it is by this very same bible that we have compiled the character of God, that is who God is. For example we know Worship is reserved for Him and Him alone. That we should have no other god besides Him. So when you see Jesus being worshiped then you realize there is more to Him than just being mere man.
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Old 10-25-2009, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
When Jesus said he was the I AM, they knew what he was claiming.
  • John 8:57-59 "At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself,...."
Later, Jesus claimed it again. Each time Jesus claimed that he was God, the harder it was for Jesus to escape being put to death
  • John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

What was the charge that eventually Jesus admitted to and was crucified for?......."blasphemy"
Jesus (according to the gospels) had two trials. One in front of the Sanhedrin and one in front of the Roman Procurator Pilate.

The charge in front of the Sanhedrin was for Blaspheming the name of God and False Prophecy which was punishable by stoning/death. (De 13:5; 18:20)
We can see here that the mocking had to do with the charge against him:
Matt 26: 67-68 Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him and said, “Prophesy to us, Christ. Who hit you?”

Now in Jewish law admission of guilt is not sufficient to charge but two witnesses were needed. This is why the council brought him before Pilate with the charge of sedition. Blasphemy (Evil or profane speaking of God) and false prophecy were not recognized as crimes in Roman Law. So Jesus was crucified for claiming to be a king.

Quote:
Why did the Jews demand from Pilot a Roman guard at the tomb? Because of another claim of Jesus that he was God.
Quote:
  • "Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.....But the temple he had spoken of was his body"
Yes, the guard was placed there because they believed he was a false prophet thus blaspheming God... but he never claimed to be God nor did the council believe he claimed to be God.
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Old 10-25-2009, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothylogan3 View Post
This one is exactly like - is a woman equal to a man question. And if you are not careful you will say according to scripture she is not. But she is. She is one with him, she came from him, they were created as one and at the same time. However their roles are different. And role does not define who you are.
Yet you are completely wrong in calling the woman a man because they are two separate beings. Also in marriage they are one but not outside of marriage.

Quote:
Same happens in the trinity. DONT LET THE ROLE OF THE INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF THE TRINITY CONFUSE YOU, ROLE DOES NOT DEFINE IDENTITY OR WHO ONE IS.
I am not the one who is confused. For example; I am a wife, in that role I am equal in purpose or "one" with my husband. However, I am also an insurance agent and in that role I am not equal in purpose or "one" with my husband who works in construction.
My identity is defined by several factors including my roles in life yet I retain my autonomy.

Quote:
And so if you can separate the two, the roles Jesus had to play (role of being the son of God, being the son of man, lamb of God etc), from His identity, that He is God, the WORD, EGO EMI (I AM), then it becomes easier to make sense of things. Things like the " The Father and I and one" , " if you have seen me you have seen the Father", " before Abraham was Ego Emi ". lol.
Again if you look at post #3, I show that there are many times where Jesus uses the phrase ego eimi and yet none of those other times is he stating he is anything other than the Christ or Messiah, the prophet that was to come.

Your view of the trinity clouds your reasoning. IMHO
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothylogan3 View Post
Btw, it helps to consolidate. If you just zoom in on a few verses then you may loose the message. The fact that Jesus is God, it is based on the entire counsell of the bible, and it is by this very same bible that we have compiled the character of God, that is who God is. For example we know Worship is reserved for Him and Him alone. That we should have no other god besides Him. So when you see Jesus being worshiped then you realize there is more to Him than just being mere man.
The trinity was established in the 4th century... and further made doctrine by the Catholic church in the Athanasian Creed and is said to be a requirement for salvation. Here are the basic tenets (let me know if I err):
  1. The Father is God
  2. The Son is God
  3. The Holy Spirit is God
  4. The Father is not the Son
  5. The Father is not the Holy Spirit
  6. The Son is not the Holy Spirit
  7. There is exactly one God
Logically this makes no sense, as what you are saying is:
  1. The Father is identical to God
  2. The Son is identical to God
  3. The Holy Spirit is identical to God
  4. The Father is not identical to the Son
  5. The Father is not identical to the Holy Spirit
  6. The Son is not identical to the Holy Spirit
  7. There are three non-identical beings proclaimed as one God.
If three parts are equal or even co-equal then it should be true that each part is equal to the other, but that is not the case in the trinity.

So the response you usually get is this:
"The mind of man cannot fully understand the mystery of the Trinity. He who would try to understand the mystery fully will lose his mind. But he who would deny the Trinity will lose his soul" (Harold Lindsey and Charles J. Woodbridge, A Handbook of Christian Truth, pp. 51-52).

Basically.. don't try to understand the trinity just believe it OR ELSE!

This contradicts scripture!
1Thess. 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good"
1 Peter 3:15 ". . . Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you..."

It is our duty as Christians to investigate and understand such an essential part of our salvation if in fact it is essential to believe that Christ was God in human form.

But as Lindsey and Woodbridge alluded to above.. there is no proof that the bible teaches anything of the sort and so it must be believed without even having proof that the concept exists.

God is God and there is only one. I don't adhere to 3 personages of God. God's Spirit is his spirit and is not separate from God. Jesus has always been human and is not a third or second God. It is clear that the OT explicitly states there is only one God and noone argues that it teaches otherwise. However, in order to claim Jesus is God.. one must say that the two are separate and not separate at the same time which is illogical.

The fact is that if Jesus is not proven to be God and one worships him as God then that person is guilty of idolatry. I don't believe Jesus is God and I never will as it is not found in the bible at all.

See also: http://eyring.hplx.net/Eyring/Notes/trinity.html ; http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/i...nderstand.html
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