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Old 10-31-2009, 09:25 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,111,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
The understanding I have is Jesus is NOT God....Jesus is Gods Son. Jesus was sent to show us The Way to God, how we can accomplish being ONE with Him the same way Jesus was ONE with The Father. This is what we are supposed to be striving for and I believe we can accomplish this while in this life. We are also made in the image of God....just as Jesus was the exact REPRESENTATION of God. Jesus is divine in that he is God's son and our brother....not that he is God....we also will be divine when we are ONE with The Father just as Jesus is. Attributing divinity to someone does not mean we are God or that Jesus is God, it just means we have attained the same nature being godlike of the same mind, spirit and will as The Father...being ONE with Him.

Christy, don't want to be repetitive . . but do you believe Jesus existence began on earth . . or do you believe that He is the Word and the Word was with God . . . Or Let Us make Man in Our Image . . Or before Abraham I Am . . . Kat . . Eusebius .. . just curious . . . if this was addressed before, well, sorry . . it's been a long night . . .
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:27 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,491,403 times
Reputation: 241
might help to post a few different
ideas in different sentences....
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:25 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,453,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Christy, don't want to be repetitive . . but do you believe Jesus existence began on earth . . or do you believe that He is the Word and the Word was with God . . . Or Let Us make Man in Our Image . . Or before Abraham I Am . . . Kat . . Eusebius .. . just curious . . . if this was addressed before, well, sorry . . it's been a long night . . .
One who is with God cannot be that God.

I believe Christ existed before being born of a virgin.

Being in existence prior to Abraham does not prove God-ness. Michael was in existence prior to Abraham too.

lifesigns, do you believe that "for us there is one God, the Father our of Whom all is and we for Him and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is"?
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:27 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,491,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
One who is with God cannot be that God.
"the Word Was WITH God,
The Word WAS God...

So it seems that the Word was both with God almighty, and was God Almighty....
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:33 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,427 posts, read 29,579,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
"the Word Was WITH God,
The Word WAS God...

So it seems that the Word was both with God almighty, and was God Almighty....
AMEN!
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:36 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,491,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
AMEN!
I call em the way I see em

Remember Im always right about this stuff....
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,401,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
"the Word Was WITH God,
The Word WAS God...

So it seems that the Word was both with God almighty, and was God Almighty....
Why do you say Word and think of a person... isn't the word of God the spoken thoughts of God.. why is something made into words all of the sudden spoken? If I give you my word.. does that mean you become me?

Never made sense to me that the word of God is somehow a person.. So is there four in the trinity? The word (who becomes Jesus), God, son, and spirit? I don't get it.

A word is a spoken piece of information not a person.
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,401,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Christy, don't want to be repetitive . . but do you believe Jesus existence began on earth . . or do you believe that He is the Word and the Word was with God . . . Or Let Us make Man in Our Image . . Or before Abraham I Am . . . Kat . . Eusebius .. . just curious . . . if this was addressed before, well, sorry . . it's been a long night . . .
I did respond to this in a DM but let me make it public...
The word of God is given to Christ and is not a person. Many prophets spoke the word of God..

If I give you my word.. are you then me? If God gives his word to flesh does the flesh then become God?

No I don't believe Jesus existed before he was born. Jesus had a personality. His mother knew he liked peas more than carrots.. his favorite color was green and he loved to take walks with his dog, Spot.. you know.. he was a human. He may have had a blankie.. Most people assume he didn't come out as a baby and grow as a child.. he did. Can God be a baby? seems silly. But Jesus had a true human personality.


But Mary and Joseph were aware that God had a special plan for their son. Jesus was a human with human traits who agreed to spread God's word amongst the Jews. He knew Judaism and that they would most likely kill him yet he honored God's word and was obedient unto death.

In the OT what was the plan? That Israel would be redeemed.. that they would be reconciled with God. Even before Adam that was the plan of God.. So Jesus came and fulfilled that plan. Was Jesus alive before Abraham? No but the promise given to Abraham included Jesus who was to come. Therefore when Christ says.. before Abraham was.. I am he.. he means that his coming to redeem his people was planned long before Abraham.

God spoke the earth into existence. Anytime God's speaks that is his Word in action. The word of God is what Jesus carried to the people. The word of God is not a person it is a spoken message.

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Old 10-31-2009, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,401,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
"the Word Was WITH God,
The Word WAS God...

So it seems that the Word was both with God almighty, and was God Almighty....
Well of course the word was with God... If I speak.. those are my words.. and they are with me.

The word was God.. well of course. If I give you my word I am giving you a promise of me..

God speaks from himself.. the word of God is God speaking. The word becomes flesh means that God gives his word to flesh so that now the flesh (in this case Jesus although others spoke the word of God) speaks the word of God.

Acts 3:22 For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you."

John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Gods word are not Jesus' they are Gods. If John wanted you to think the Word of God was Jesus then why did Jesus say this?

John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

So how can the Word be God but be Jesus when Jesus clearly denies that his words are his.. they are Gods.
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:22 AM
 
37,606 posts, read 25,300,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Well of course the word was with God... If I speak.. those are my words.. and they are with me.

The word was God.. well of course. If I give you my word I am giving you a promise of me..

God speaks from himself.. the word of God is God speaking. The word becomes flesh means that God gives his word to flesh so that now the flesh (in this case Jesus although others spoke the word of God) speaks the word of God.

Acts 3:22 For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you."

John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Gods word are not Jesus' they are Gods. If John wanted you to think the Word of God was Jesus then why did Jesus say this?

John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

So how can the Word be God but be Jesus when Jesus clearly denies that his words are his.. they are Gods.
As long as you maintain this carnal concept of personhood and refuse to consider the deeper meaning embedded in the very concept of Word . . . the debates and confusion will continue. The meaning in John 1:1, has far more significance than the carnal understanding of the Word of God,

. . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God; and the Word was God.

A word is an abstract phenomenon of consciousness and exists only where consciousness exists. A word is a series of symbols grouped together, which when taken as a whole, creates in a being with consciousness an abstract realization or "knowingness" that we recognize as the condition of having meaning. THAT identifies the Word (with a capital w) as God AND as consciousness. That is why John 1:14 is so profound

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The consciousness of God was placed in a human body and brain (different place and form . . . SAME consciousness). When Jesus died His consciousness left His body and was reborn as Spirit (as we are destined to be) and is now the Holy Spirit ( a different place and form . . . SAME consciousness). We are ALL defined by our consciousness . . . not the vessel or form we inhabit. ALL three forms have different attributes and capabilities . . . but are the SAME consciousness and are therefore the SAME person. There is nothing mysterious about it at all.

The implications of this are profound. Each human consciousness is a "cellular" component of the total human consciousness in existence. But, most importantly . . . Jesus's human consciousness is now part of it since His rebirth (resurrection) as Spirit. That makes the collective human consciousness now connected through Jesus with God's consciousness. The part that makes me uneasy is contemplating what occurs during this intervening time while Jesus's Holy Spirit is part of human consciousness . . . because not all human consciousness that has been produced or is being produced today is compatible. While we are in human form . . . we can alter our consciousness under the guidance of the Holy Spirit within. Each one of us has the ability to attune our consciousness in "love of God and each other" sufficiently to be acceptable to Jesus . . . and therefore to God. But what is happening to those already dead? How are they becoming attuned to Jesus and God? What if anything is the process? But that is probably fodder for another topic.
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