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Old 10-25-2009, 03:11 PM
 
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I just refuse to get mixed up with a topic that is named so badly....
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,401,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I just refuse to get mixed up with a topic that is named so badly....
Well I don't think one can change the title if a mistake is made.. besides you don't really have an other information to add since you have only repeated your claims over and over..

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Old 10-25-2009, 04:44 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,491,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
you don't really have an other information to add since you have only repeated your claims over and over..
I dont have a problem with saying the same thing one more time...

let me say that again, I dont have any problem with saying the same thing over and over...
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,401,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I dont have a problem with saying the same thing one more time...

let me say that again, I dont have any problem with saying the same thing over and over...
I don't have a problem with you saying the same thing over again...

That being said I prefer that you say the same thing over and over using different words..

My preference is that if you say the same thing over again that you use different phrases to convey the same thing.

If you must repeat yourself and your views the least you could do is vary the conversation again and again rather than repeat it word for word...

LOL
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:56 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,491,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I don't have a problem with you saying the same thing over again...
Good, cuz I dont have a problem saying the same things over and over again..

Let me make that clear, I dont have any problem saying the same things over and over again.
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Old 10-25-2009, 05:02 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,829,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Jesus (according to the gospels) had two trials. One in front of the Sanhedrin and one in front of the Roman Procurator Pilate.

The charge in front of the Sanhedrin was for Blaspheming the name of God and False Prophecy which was punishable by stoning/death. (De 13:5; 18:20)
We can see here that the mocking had to do with the charge against him:
Matt 26: 67-68 Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him and said, “Prophesy to us, Christ. Who hit you?”

Now in Jewish law admission of guilt is not sufficient to charge but two witnesses were needed. This is why the council brought him before Pilate with the charge of sedition. Blasphemy (Evil or profane speaking of God) and false prophecy were not recognized as crimes in Roman Law. So Jesus was crucified for claiming to be a king.

[color=black]
Yes, the guard was placed there because they believed he was a false prophet thus blaspheming God... but he never claimed to be God nor did the council believe he claimed to be God.
Kat,
The gospel of John is as clear as anything that is written about Jesus being God:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'

John 8:47
He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

John 10:33 ".........but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

John 14:1
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God ; trust also in me.

John 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"


Kat, you can deny it as long as you want to or make (to my ears) illogical arguments. It will be very unfortunate for you when that day comes when you will be forced to acknowledge Jesus as God. Yes your knee will bow, but not as a heir. I do pray that your time of grace is not over and that you will stop resisting.

Listen Kat. "The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,401,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Kat,
The gospel of John is as clear as anything that is written about Jesus being God:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'

John 8:47
He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

John 10:33 ".........but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

John 14:1
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God ; trust also in me.

John 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"


Kat, you can deny it as long as you want to or make (to my ears) illogical arguments. It will be very unfortunate for you when that day comes when you will be forced to acknowledge Jesus as God. Yes your knee will bow, but not as a heir. I do pray that your time of grace is not over and that you will stop resisting.

Listen Kat. "The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
I would say that very same thing about you... If you can't see the trinity in the bible then you must wonder what will happen when you are charged with Idolatry and unable to enter the kingdom of Heaven. When Jesus says to you.. I never claimed to be God as that would be blasphemy.

Jesus was accused of blasphemy and yet we know that he did not. You are saying he did blaspheme the nature of God by saying he is God..

Those verses you provide do not in any way allude to the trinity.

I don't believe in anything that is contrary to the bible. If God states you shall have no other gods.. then I say that means no other gods including Jesus.

If you worship Jesus as God and it turns out that you have misinterpreted the bible then you are guilty of idolatry. Which by your belief means that you face annihilation.. right?

If I don't believe the doctrine of the trinity there is no loss for me as belief in this is not a requirement of salvation as is clear in the bible because there is not one passage that says salvation is contingent on the belief that Jesus is God.

See.. the trinity doctrine was not taught for the first 300 years after Christ... and then it was a way for the Roman Catholic Church to reconcile it's erroneous view that Jesus is a deity himself rather than simply using the Holy Spirit fully to guide him as we are told to do to be "one" with God..
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:33 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,829,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I would say that very same thing about you... If you can't see the trinity in the bible then you must wonder what will happen when you are charged with Idolatry and unable to enter the kingdom of Heaven. When Jesus says to you.. I never claimed to be God as that would be blasphemy.

Jesus was accused of blasphemy and yet we know that he did not. You are saying he did blaspheme the nature of God by saying he is God..

Those verses you provide do not in any way allude to the trinity.

I don't believe in anything that is contrary to the bible. If God states you shall have no other gods.. then I say that means no other gods including Jesus.

If you worship Jesus as God and it turns out that you have misinterpreted the bible then you are guilty of idolatry. Which by your belief means that you face annihilation.. right?

If I don't believe the doctrine of the trinity there is no loss for me as belief in this is not a requirement of salvation as is clear in the bible because there is not one passage that says salvation is contingent on the belief that Jesus is God.

See.. the trinity doctrine was not taught for the first 300 years after Christ... and then it was a way for the Roman Catholic Church to reconcile it's erroneous view that Jesus is a deity himself rather than simply using the Holy Spirit fully to guide him as we are told to do to be "one" with God..
Who said anything about the trinity...that is not what this is about, the fact Jesus is God. He claimed it, was written by the OT prophets, and those who believed him confessed it. "The Word (Jesus) was God."

You're twisting the outcomes. The Bible teaches that those who deny Jesus as God, and God being triune, and that by faith not works will be condemned to hell forever.

I have no danger in either scenerio. First of all, that is the truth. The Bible teaches that Jesus is God, God being triune, and that we are justified by faith not works.

If what you're saying is the truth, I'm out nothing. Jesus didn't really need to come to seek the lost here on earth, while anybody is alive. His death and ressurection was all for show, when you bring it down to the basics.

However, the risk is all yours. You are banking on that the OT prophets are wrong, that Jesus is wrong, that the dicisples are wrong, that God can be whatever or whomever and has no set standards for justification.

I wish you all the best in your journey to find the truth. Hopefully, you won't spend $10,000 to have some new ager for a fun time in a sweat hut (like in Sedona).
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,401,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Who said anything about the trinity...that is not what this is about, the fact Jesus is God. He claimed it, was written by the OT prophets, and those who believed him confessed it. "The Word (Jesus) was God."
The word was God and God spoke the word through flesh.. no where does Jesus=the Word.. nor does the bible refer to Jesus as the word. The Word was CARRIED by all prophets who spoke the word of God. Jesus NEVER claimed to be God.. that is purely your imagination.

Quote:
You're twisting the outcomes. The Bible teaches that those who deny Jesus as God, and God being triune, and that by faith not works will be condemned to hell forever.
Poppy ****.. I've said it before that there is no verse in the bible that says one must profess Jesus as God. Even the most learned men who are trinitarians must concede the fact that Jesus being God is not in the bible and must be inferred through putting many verses together that don't actually belong together... They also concede that there is no verse in the bible that requires belief that Jesus is God. So it is your imagination that says that there is a triune God and that Jesus is God... At least admit the truth as most everyone else will tell you is the truth.

Hey.. I have yet to be shown a verse that says first, that Jesus is God or that Jesus says he is God. Second, that one must believe that Jesus is God. Third that God is triune... If you can show these things are clearly taught without inferring (such as that the Word = Jesus when it is not shown in the verses) then I will concede that you are indeed correct.

Quote:
I have no danger in either scenerio. First of all, that is the truth. The Bible teaches that Jesus is God, God being triune, and that we are justified by faith not works.
Yikes.. again see above. You have no proof of any of that.

"Thus, many Trinitarian scholars concede that their doctrine represents no more than a deduction from Scripture. J.N.D. Kelly says of the NT, “Explicit Trinitarian confessions are few and far between; where they do occur, little can be built upon them.” Johannes Schneider admits, “The NT does not contain the developed doctrine of the Trinity.” And D.A. Carson concedes, “Individually these texts do not prove there is any Trinitarian consciousness in the NT, since other threefold-phrases occur.

Read the whole article here: http://servetustheevangelical.com/do..._Testament.pdf

All learned trinitarians, yet as you can see they cannot say that the bible teaches a triune God because it simply does not! So then they say it is an apparent contradiction only because it remains a mystery that humans cannot possibly understand! The truth is that there is not trinity taught in the bible...

Quote:
If what you're saying is the truth, I'm out nothing. Jesus didn't really need to come to seek the lost here on earth, while anybody is alive. His death and ressurection was all for show, when you bring it down to the basics.
Jesus' death was all for show? LOL if that is really what you think then you undermine the entire bible so you may as well toss it in the garbage. Or are you saying that if Jesus isn't God then the who thing was for show? It stands to reason that if Jesus was God and God can't die then yes the whole thing was just for show and God was being deceptive.

Quote:
However, the risk is all yours. You are banking on that the OT prophets are wrong, that Jesus is wrong, that the dicisples are wrong, that God can be whatever or whomever and has no set standards for justification.
I have no idea why you think that the OT, Jesus, and the disciples thought there was 3 gods in 1.. they never did. I think you need to study just a bit more.

Quote:
I wish you all the best in your journey to find the truth. Hopefully, you won't spend $10,000 to have some new ager for a fun time in a sweat hut (like in Sedona).
Idolatry is a serious thing and ruins your ability to continue to walk with God. I wish you luck with that.
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:18 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,111,871 times
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Okay, I don't like the word trinity . . . but I believe in a modified version of it.

What I mean by that is . . . I believe Jesus is God, a diety . . . but I do not believe Jesus is God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit.

They were all present at Jesus Baptism . . . they are not the same person, God the Father, God the Son, and Holy Spirit.

The trinity teaches this mystery, and if we question it, it is so confusing . . .and we know, God is not the author of confusion? Right?

Now, as I stated in previous posts, I believe Jesus created the world, and is the Word of God, the Lamb of God . . . and the ONLY Begotten Son of God.

He was brought forth from God . . . was born in human form, to a Virgin, named Mary . . . so, in Heaven, he was begotten . . . and God the father, also sired him . . . through Mary so to speak.

Although he is God, our Lord Jesus Christ . . . it is clear to me, that he is not the Father now . . . in the not to recent past I had started to question this . . . and I believe that I found the answers in the scipture.

James 2:19 (English-NIV)
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that and shudder.


Ephesians 4:4-6 (English-NIV)
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.


The scripture above shows us plainly that there is One Lord who we know to be Jesus and there is one God and Father of all.

The next scripture reafirms this and shows us that the Father is greater than the Son. Instead of thinking about a circle divided into 3 parts that make up one God, think about what the following scripture is saying.

John 15:1-2 (English-NIV)
1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

So God is the gardener, Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches.

2 Corinthians 13:14
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
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