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Old 11-08-2009, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,295,475 times
Reputation: 420

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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
And I showed you (if you would have clicked on the link) the picture of one of the oldest greek texts that shows that there is no word here indicating that GOD was manifest in the flesh.. it was doctored to say that and is clear if you look at the scanned image on the link I provided. That means that it really reads.. HE was manifest in the flesh.. as in Jesus was manifest in the flesh.. and if you look at the words in the phrase... you will see that you are wrong..

Sometimes it seems you don't actually read what I wrote or make a true effort to go to the links provided for more understanding. But that is just my opinion.

Here is the pic of the text Codex Alexandrinus:


The first circle is Timothy 3:16.. notice that there is a dot in the center of the O and the line over it (indicating it is an abreviated form of theos) was added later as stated by the ones who check these things... The second circle is the true abbreviated theos in 4:3.. notice that there is not dot in the O... It is clear that the OC in the first circle is meant to be "he" not "God."

Now if it says he.. then does that or does that not change what you are trying to prove?
I have seen this defese and have tackled it before and doesn't prove anything...this is blatant disregard for syntax. The preceeeding subject is God, therefore God is manifest in the flesh...It isn't saying Jesus manifested into the flesh, otherwise He would be more than human, which again, is rightly proclaimed because He is. Your claim is false in every way, and so are others in claiming the same, as seen in their eisegetical work.
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Old 11-08-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What original Greek?...there are no original Greek manuscripts to the New Testament. They are all copies...earliest 2nd century for John.
I showed the pic in a previous post just for you!

Quote:
Next thing...again you have revealed to the board your lack of understanding the ancient Greek and Pronoun use. What is the preceeding subject in the verse?

1 Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God,which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
The house of God? Church of God? What are you trying to say here? The pronoun refers to a person does it not? but you are taking the phrase "house OF GOD" (house being the noun) and ignoring the preposition... the real HE points to Jesus...

The pillar is Jesus...

The other thing I have not mentioned is the context of this chapter... you seem to condemn my use of context but you have yet to comment on your own... 1 timothy 3 - is about Overseers and Deacons not really about Christ being God.. The HE is fully Jesus in keeping with the purity that must be maintained as a teacher of the Gospel or overseer as Jesus clearly was..

A question I have for you also, is: If you are a preterist then you believe that God is all in all.. correct?

If God is all in all then he has made the son subject to him.. right?

So that Jesus is not the same as God.. correct?

I never did understand how a preterist can believe God is all in all yet Jesus is God.. it may well be over my head as I am by no means a scholar.

Instead of replying to the rest of your post, I will leave it at that for you. You have obviously shown me that you are lacking alot in terms of examining ancient languages, context, linguistics, and proper exegesis.

If you are going to use this approach, please be prepared in it, at least a little. You and those that ascribe to this claim is false. Christ is part of the Godhead.[/quote]
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Old 11-08-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,295,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
God cannot be tempted.. God cannot sin.. so how can God be tempted to sin when it is clear he cannot do those things?
The sole reason why He took on the flesh. To overcome what we cannot to prove His deity to the Jews, and through the disciples and apostles in the great commission, for the Gentiles.

Quote:
BTW - I have responded to your posts in length, trying to address everything you post. I respect that you are very wise in some areas but in this area you refuse to even consider that Jesus could be just a normal human who was anointed by God.. That is fine with me. That is your choice. My goal has never been to convince anyone that Jesus is not God. I didn't even start this thread.. LOL
Sorry at work, don't have much time as dinner is encroaching.
I will respond to it in great length if you want, but your first issue here is eisegetical, and lack of proper understanding of the language, which therefore, puts the whole interpretatation at risk, which is what is occurring.
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Old 11-08-2009, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I have seen this defese and have tackled it before and doesn't prove anything...this is blatant disregard for syntax. The preceeeding subject is God, therefore God is manifest in the flesh...It isn't saying Jesus manifested into the flesh, otherwise He would be more than human, which again, is rightly proclaimed because He is. Your claim is false in every way, and so are others in claiming the same, as seen in their eisegetical work.
You just said that the preceding subject is God yet it is clearly not.. it is the HOUSE.. of God.. not God but the HOUSE OF GOD.. and yet you say I have problems with this?
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Old 11-08-2009, 07:15 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,352,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I have seen this defese and have tackled it before and doesn't prove anything...this is blatant disregard for syntax. The preceeeding subject is God, therefore God is manifest in the flesh...It isn't saying Jesus manifested into the flesh, otherwise He would be more than human, which again, is rightly proclaimed because He is. Your claim is false in every way, and so are others in claiming the same, as seen in their eisegetical work.
I see you are still at it, and I see she still doesn't get it.............
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Old 11-08-2009, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The sole reason why He took on the flesh. To overcome what we cannot to prove His deity to the Jews, and through the disciples and apostles in the great commission, for the Gentiles.



Sorry at work, don't have much time as dinner is encroaching.
I will respond to it in great length if you want, but your first issue here is eisegetical, and lack of proper understanding of the language, which therefore, puts the whole interpretatation at risk, which is what is occurring.
I disagree.. I would simply like you to extend the same courtesy I extend to you in that I answer to all you say. I know that in our lives we may not have the time it takes to expound fully on the subject manner and I sympathize.. However.. instead of insulting my use of scripture you could simply put the issue to rest by refuting my claim:
GOD is the ONLY TRUE God and there is no other God. Jesus is the MAN.. the mediator between God and man...

But yet what I believe is totally verifiable using scripture.. you however have the burden of proving that somehow Jesus is also God.. that is your interpretation and is not straight from scripture.

Besides that.. what would change if you were to admit that there isn't sufficient evidence to say that Jesus is God?

What would that change about the gospel? It is clear that Jesus' humanity was really important (Hebrews 2..and others) yet you say that Jesus' Godhead is important. To me, if Jesus is God then it was all for show as God clearly cannot be tempted.. cannot sin.. cannot be contained by earthly things... so that I HAVE to reject Christ as God because scripture demands it...

We may never see eye to eye on this issue but that is ok because I am also a URer and so it is not a matter of eternal torture! LOL I love you as a brother no matter what because I see that you truly love God and Jesus.

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Old 11-08-2009, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,295,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I showed the pic in a previous post just for you!


The house of God? Church of God? What are you trying to say here? The pronoun refers to a person does it not? but you are taking the phrase "house OF GOD" (house being the noun) and ignoring the preposition... the real HE points to Jesus...

The pillar is Jesus...
Again..you are wrong..the pillar is the church. The pillar and ground...the earth...the church...the truth is God.


Quote:
A question I have for you also, is: If you are a preterist then you believe that God is all in all.. correct?

If God is all in all then he has made the son subject to him.. right?

So that Jesus is not the same as God.. correct?

I never did understand how a preterist can believe God is all in all yet Jesus is God.. it may well be over my head as I am by no means a scholar.
You are't a Preterist because you believe in future redemtption of all souls, Preterists do not. Preterist is past.....all of it.

The only thing occuring now is the sanctification process of those regenerated into the faith...a personal growth and chasting.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

That's it.

God is all in all through Christ...because He sacrificed Himself, the only one who can save, released the Jews from their idolatry by dying, and allowing them, through the spirit and circumcision of the heart, to be reuinited with Him again in His ressurreciton. That is the message of the entire text.

To the Jews first..then to the Gentiles, to unite them as one bride, wth Christ, the New Husband, God.
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Old 11-08-2009, 07:23 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,564,739 times
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when protestants profess jesus as god they become much more catholic.
the divinity of the jesus family is the issue.
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Old 11-08-2009, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I see you are still at it, and I see she still doesn't get it.............
I never will because I was once a trinitarian..

Once you believe then you don't you have obviously found sufficient evidence to convince yourself that what you thought was true (trinitarianism) is not true. Same with the futurist view of eschatology.. I will never go back to that view as I have decided that it was a lie.

However, I can say that if it can be proven .. I will return to that view as I have no problem saying that I am wrong as long as it is what is right.

You can find no fault at all with my claim that God is the ONE and ONLY true God and that Jesus is his son, a human mediator between man and God..

Adding to that statement to say that Jesus is God is just wrong.. and is not found in scripture.. IMHO

But like I said before.. I love everyone regardless because God loves them.. that includes those who disagree with me on this issue.

My own husband disagrees with me on this issue and that is ok..

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Old 11-08-2009, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Again..you are wrong..the pillar is the church. The pillar and ground...the earth...the church...the truth is God.
huh? so you don't agree that Jesus is the cornerstone? The foundation of the gospel?

Quote:
You are't a Preterist because you believe in future redemtption of all souls, Preterists do not. Preterist is past.....all of it.
Where did you get that? I see that all prophecy was fulfilled in the past. There is no future redemption of souls.. it is finished. Salvation came with Christ's coming in 70AD ..

Quote:
The only thing occuring now is the sanctification process of those regenerated into the faith...a personal growth and chasting.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

That's it.

God is all in all through Christ...because He sacrificed Himself, the only one who can save, released the Jews from their idolatry by dying, and allowing them, through the spirit and circumcision of the heart, to be reuinited with Him again in His ressurreciton. That is the message of the entire text.

To the Jews first..then to the Gentiles, to unite them as one bride, wth Christ, the New Husband, God.
I disagree.. it is God that is the husband.. not Jesus..

Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband--the LORD Almighty is his name--the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth.

???

I can assure you that you and I believe in the same eschatology.

I have read your posts on eschatology and wholeheartedly agree.

We differ in that I also believe in UR and that Jesus is not God himself..
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