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Old 10-28-2009, 08:15 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Miss shawn,
I commend your efforts, but as the old saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink".

1 Corinthians 2:14
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."


And what happens to to those who does not accept:

Matthew 12:32
"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

Mark 3:29
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Luke 12:10
"And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."
Yea, you are right. If is not our job to make a person believe, that is the Holy Spirit's job.
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Old 10-28-2009, 08:17 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Still, it's nice to hear you say it. Thank you.
Jesus is God

Creator
(John 1:3) Through him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.

(Col1:16-17) For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

We see God in the beginning creating the world, so that was Jesus creating the word with the Father and The Holy Spirit.

First and Last

(Rev. 1:17) When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as though dead. Then He placed His right hand on me and said; Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. God in the Old testament said that He was the First and the Last, now Jesus is saying it again. Also read Isaiah 41:4,44:6,48:12

(Rev. 2:8) To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of Him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. Jesus was the one who died and came to life again. The Father never died.

(Rev 22:13) I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End

The I Am's of Jesus

(John 8:24 )Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM HE, you will die in your sins.

(John 8:58) I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I Am.

(John 13:19) I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I AM He.
God calls this name I Am in the Old Testament and Jesus is giving it again, because he is God.

(1John 5:7) For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

(John 20:28-29) And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God. Jesus said to him, Thomas because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. (When Thomas saw him, he knew who Jesus was, because he called him Lord and God)

(John 1:1-3) In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
(The Word was Jesus and this scripture tells us that He is God)

(Matthew 1:23)BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US." Jesus is the God with us.

Son of God

(Romans 1:3-4) concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord who was born of seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the spirit of holines by the resurrectiion from the dead.

Other names of Jesus

Advocate (1 John 2:1)
Almighty (Rev. 1:8; Mt. 28:18)
Alpha and Omega (Rev. 1:8; 22:13)
Amen (Rev. 3:14)
Apostle of our Profession (Heb. 3:1)
Atoning Sacrifice for our Sins (1 John 2:2)
Author of Life (Acts 3:15)
Author and Perfecter of our Faith (Heb. 12:2)
Author of Salvation (Heb. 2:10)
Beginning and End (Rev. 22:13)
Blessed and only Ruler (1 Tim. 6:15)
Bread of God (John 6:33)
Bread of Life (John 6:35; 6:48)
Bridegroom (Mt. 9:15)
Capstone (Acts 4:11; 1 Pet. 2:7)
Chief Cornerstone (Eph. 2:20)
Chief Shepherd (1 Pet. 5:4)
Christ (1 John 2:22)
Creator (John 1:3)
Deliverer (Rom. 11:26)
Eternal Life (1 John 1:2; 5:20)
Faithful and True (Rev. 19:11)
Faithful Witness (Rev. 1:5)
Faithful and True Witness (Rev. 3:14)
First and Last (Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13)
Firstborn From the Dead (Rev. 1:5)
Firstborn over all creation (Col. 1:15)
Gate (John 10:9)
God (John 1:1; 20:28; Heb. 1:8; Rom. 9:5; 2 Pet. 1:1;1 John 5:20; etc.)
Good Shepherd (John 10:11,14)
Great Shepherd (Heb. 13:20)
Great High Priest (Heb. 4:14)
Head of the Church (Eph. 1:22; 4:15; 5:23)
Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2)
High Priest (Heb. 2:17)
Holy and True (Rev. 3:7)
Holy One (Acts 3:14)
Hope (1 Tim. 1:1)
Hope of Glory (Col. 1:27)
Horn of Salvation (Luke 1:69)
I Am (John 8:58)
Image of God (2 Cor. 4:4)
Immanuel (Mt. 1:23)
Judge of the living and the dead (Acts 10:42)
King Eternal (1 Tim. 1:17)
King of Israel (John 1:49)
King of the Jews (Mt. 27:11)
King of kings (1 Tim 6:15; Rev. 19:16)
King of the Ages (Rev. 15:3)
Lamb (Rev. 13:8)
Lamb of God (John 1:29)
Lamb Without Blemish (1 Pet. 1:19)
Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45)
Life (John 14:6; Col. 3:4)
Light of the World (John 8:12)
Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5)
Living One (Rev. 1:18)
Living Stone (1 Pet. 2:4)
Lord (2 Pet. 2:20)
Lord of All (Acts 10:36)
Lord of Glory (1 Cor. 2:8)
Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16)
Man from Heaven (1 Cor. 15:48)
Master (Lk. 5:5; 8:24; 9:33)
Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15)
Mighty God (Isa. 9:6)
Morning Star (Rev. 22:16)
Offspring of David (Rev. 22:16)
Only Begotten Son of God (John 1:18; 1 John 4:9)
Our Great God and Savior (Titus 2:13)
Our Holiness (1 Cor. 1:30)
Our Husband (2 Cor. 11:2)
Our Protection (2 Thess. 3:3)
Our Redemption (1 Cor. 1:30)
Our Righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30)
Our Sacrificed Passover Lamb (1 Cor. 5:7)
Power of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
Precious Cornerstone (1 Pet. 2:6)
Prophet (Acts 3:22)
Rabbi (Mt. 26:25)
Resurrection and Life (John 11:25)
Righteous Branch (Jer. 23:5)
Righteous One (Acts 7:52; 1 John 2:1)
Rock (1 Cor. 10:4)
Root of David (Rev. 5:5; 22:16)
Ruler of God’s Creation (Rev. 3:14)
Ruler of the Kings of the Earth (Rev. 1:5)
Savior (Eph. 5:23; Titus 1:4; 3:6; 2 Pet. 2:20)
Son of David (Lk. 18:39)
Son of God (John 1:49; Heb. 4:14)
Son of Man (Mt. 8:20)
Son of the Most High God (Lk. 1:32)
Source of Eternal Salvation for all who obey him (Heb. 5:9)
The One Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)
The Stone the builders rejected (Acts 4:11)
True Bread (John 6:32)
True Light (John 1:9)
True Vine (John 15:1)
Truth (John 1:14; 14:6)
Way (John 14:6)
Wisdom of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
Word (John 1:1)
Word of God (Rev. 19:13)
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Old 10-28-2009, 08:56 PM
 
20,359 posts, read 15,743,543 times
Reputation: 7524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Jesus is God

Creator
(John 1:3) Through him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.

(Col1:16-17) For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

We see God in the beginning creating the world, so that was Jesus creating the word with the Father and The Holy Spirit.

First and Last

(Rev. 1:17) When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as though dead. Then He placed His right hand on me and said; Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. God in the Old testament said that He was the First and the Last, now Jesus is saying it again. Also read Isaiah 41:4,44:6,48:12

(Rev. 2:8) To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of Him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. Jesus was the one who died and came to life again. The Father never died.

(Rev 22:13) I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End

The I Am's of Jesus

(John 8:24 )Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM HE, you will die in your sins.

(John 8:58) I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I Am.

(John 13:19) I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I AM He.
God calls this name I Am in the Old Testament and Jesus is giving it again, because he is God.

(1John 5:7) For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

(John 20:28-29) And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God. Jesus said to him, Thomas because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. (When Thomas saw him, he knew who Jesus was, because he called him Lord and God)

(John 1:1-3) In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
(The Word was Jesus and this scripture tells us that He is God)

(Matthew 1:23)BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US." Jesus is the God with us.

Son of God

(Romans 1:3-4) concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord who was born of seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the spirit of holines by the resurrectiion from the dead.

Other names of Jesus

Advocate (1 John 2:1)
Almighty (Rev. 1:8; Mt. 28:18)
Alpha and Omega (Rev. 1:8; 22:13)
Amen (Rev. 3:14)
Apostle of our Profession (Heb. 3:1)
Atoning Sacrifice for our Sins (1 John 2:2)
Author of Life (Acts 3:15)
Author and Perfecter of our Faith (Heb. 12:2)
Author of Salvation (Heb. 2:10)
Beginning and End (Rev. 22:13)
Blessed and only Ruler (1 Tim. 6:15)
Bread of God (John 6:33)
Bread of Life (John 6:35; 6:48)
Bridegroom (Mt. 9:15)
Capstone (Acts 4:11; 1 Pet. 2:7)
Chief Cornerstone (Eph. 2:20)
Chief Shepherd (1 Pet. 5:4)
Christ (1 John 2:22)
Creator (John 1:3)
Deliverer (Rom. 11:26)
Eternal Life (1 John 1:2; 5:20)
Faithful and True (Rev. 19:11)
Faithful Witness (Rev. 1:5)
Faithful and True Witness (Rev. 3:14)
First and Last (Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13)
Firstborn From the Dead (Rev. 1:5)
Firstborn over all creation (Col. 1:15)
Gate (John 10:9)
God (John 1:1; 20:28; Heb. 1:8; Rom. 9:5; 2 Pet. 1:1;1 John 5:20; etc.)
Good Shepherd (John 10:11,14)
Great Shepherd (Heb. 13:20)
Great High Priest (Heb. 4:14)
Head of the Church (Eph. 1:22; 4:15; 5:23)
Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2)
High Priest (Heb. 2:17)
Holy and True (Rev. 3:7)
Holy One (Acts 3:14)
Hope (1 Tim. 1:1)
Hope of Glory (Col. 1:27)
Horn of Salvation (Luke 1:69)
I Am (John 8:58)
Image of God (2 Cor. 4:4)
Immanuel (Mt. 1:23)
Judge of the living and the dead (Acts 10:42)
King Eternal (1 Tim. 1:17)
King of Israel (John 1:49)
King of the Jews (Mt. 27:11)
King of kings (1 Tim 6:15; Rev. 19:16)
King of the Ages (Rev. 15:3)
Lamb (Rev. 13:8)
Lamb of God (John 1:29)
Lamb Without Blemish (1 Pet. 1:19)
Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45)
Life (John 14:6; Col. 3:4)
Light of the World (John 8:12)
Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5)
Living One (Rev. 1:18)
Living Stone (1 Pet. 2:4)
Lord (2 Pet. 2:20)
Lord of All (Acts 10:36)
Lord of Glory (1 Cor. 2:8)
Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16)
Man from Heaven (1 Cor. 15:48)
Master (Lk. 5:5; 8:24; 9:33)
Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15)
Mighty God (Isa. 9:6)
Morning Star (Rev. 22:16)
Offspring of David (Rev. 22:16)
Only Begotten Son of God (John 1:18; 1 John 4:9)
Our Great God and Savior (Titus 2:13)
Our Holiness (1 Cor. 1:30)
Our Husband (2 Cor. 11:2)
Our Protection (2 Thess. 3:3)
Our Redemption (1 Cor. 1:30)
Our Righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30)
Our Sacrificed Passover Lamb (1 Cor. 5:7)
Power of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
Precious Cornerstone (1 Pet. 2:6)
Prophet (Acts 3:22)
Rabbi (Mt. 26:25)
Resurrection and Life (John 11:25)
Righteous Branch (Jer. 23:5)
Righteous One (Acts 7:52; 1 John 2:1)
Rock (1 Cor. 10:4)
Root of David (Rev. 5:5; 22:16)
Ruler of Godís Creation (Rev. 3:14)
Ruler of the Kings of the Earth (Rev. 1:5)
Savior (Eph. 5:23; Titus 1:4; 3:6; 2 Pet. 2:20)
Son of David (Lk. 18:39)
Son of God (John 1:49; Heb. 4:14)
Son of Man (Mt. 8:20)
Son of the Most High God (Lk. 1:32)
Source of Eternal Salvation for all who obey him (Heb. 5:9)
The One Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)
The Stone the builders rejected (Acts 4:11)
True Bread (John 6:32)
True Light (John 1:9)
True Vine (John 15:1)
Truth (John 1:14; 14:6)
Way (John 14:6)
Wisdom of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
Word (John 1:1)
Word of God (Rev. 19:13)
I like what you're saying. Sometimes I want to reach through the internet and try to shake some sense into these people who distort the word of God. And I am talking about the universalists, the preterists, the allegorical crowd, the soul sleepers...etc. But, that's not possible.

How is it that despite all the scripture, such as you listed above, people can still deny the deity of Christ? And yet, they do. Well, we live in the devils world, and there is much deception in his kingdom. Even when Christ returns and is ruling on the throne of David in the Millennial kingdom, with Satan locked up in the abyss, and unable to deceive, there are still going to be perhaps millions of people who won't believe in Christ. And He will be right here on earth, in glory, visible, and ruling the nations with a rod of iron, in justice. And yet, there will be people who want nothing to do with Him. It is these people who, when Satan is released from his prison for a while at the end of the Millennium, will be deceived and will revolt against the Lord, as is mentioned in Revelation 20:7-10.
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I already told you what it means to walk with God, you are just not comprehending what I wrote. LIke I said before I see why you are having such a hard time comprehending scripture.

Enoch walked with God. You are thinking about walking like walking a dog. Enoch walked with God and that means:

When the bible says that Enoch walked with God, it means that He lived by faith in God, trusted in His word and promises, made every effort to live a holy life, and embraced God's ways while standing firm against His generations ungodliness.

Walking with God is a spiritual sense means working perfectly with Him, not walking down the street holding His hand.

Moses and the Children of Israel literally walked with God in the desert, yes I mean literally walked under Him. God was in the cloud and they followed Him, if you can't understand that, then you are just lost.
My disagreement with you is not that anyone walked with God or that God was represented by a cloud or even was a cloud... My disagreement is that you think that proves that there are three in the cloud, three walking with Israel, and three present in the burning bush...etc. You are trying to say that this is indicative of the God is triune statement and also that means Jesus is God..

So we can drop the walking with portion as I already agreed to it's meaning. I see nowhere that implies support of a triune god or the Jesus Is God...

Quote:
Show me scripture that says that Jesus is a reflection of God, because scripture says that Jesus is God and yes He is the Word and He is God. I don't have to say it, the scripture says it.
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

2 Cor. 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Hebrews 1:3 He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being, and he holds everything together by his powerful word. After he had provided a cleansing from sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Highest Majesty

Quote:
No, you are wrong, they were made in the image, they are not the image. The bible does not say that Jesus was made in the image of God, it says that He is God.
See the verses above.

Quote:
Show me a verse that says that Jesus is not God.
Well since no one believed he was God when the bible was written they didn't make a point to refute it..
I can attempt to show you why I think the following proves it:

1 Tim. 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

One God, one man.

Nehemiah 9:6 You alone are the LORD. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.

Deuteronomy 4:35 "To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him.

Deuteronomy 4:39 "Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Even Jesus (who you claim is God) says there is only one God..the same God that is Father is the only true God.

Quote:
You are wrong and you answer shows for it. There are four sudjects. God would not use us for Isaiah. LOL, comprehending is not your strong point I see.
HUH? Do you really thing that all of the sudden God changes from his authority to send to who will go for him being plural? So God, Isaiah and Jesus and the holy spirit need to send someone?

Or does it mean that God can refer to himself as one (I) and more than one (us)? Or is it correct to say that only God SENDS but it is more than one who desires someone to go..

So who is the subject in Chapter 5 and 6?
Example: Chapter 5: 3-7
“Now you dwellers in Jerusalem and men of Judah,
judge between me and my vineyard.
What more could have been done for my vineyard
than I have done for it?
When I looked for good grapes,
why did it yield only bad?
Now I will tell you
what I am going to do to my vineyard:
I will take away its hedge,
and it will be destroyed;
I will break down its wall,
and it will be trampled.
I will make it a wasteland,
neither pruned nor cultivated,
and briers and thorns will grow there.
I will command the clouds
not to rain on it.”
The vineyard of the Lord Almighty
is the house of Israel,

And you say I have a hard time with comprehension? There is no reason to think that God suddenly changes from singular to plural so he can prove that there are three of him in 8:6.. He speaks of Isaiah and himself in the "US."

Quote:
I don't feel the need to continue, you seem to have a hard time with comprehending simple things.
It is quite clear from the text that God is one and it is you who are having trouble understanding...

Quote:
This is really sad and shows that you have lack of research or commonsense. The us has nothing to do with Isaiah, if you can't see that then you as I said before lack simple comprehension.
Quit reading commentaries of men and look at the passage itself. There is no way that God is one and then three in the same passage.. grammatically and contextually you would be laughed out of 4th grade!

We learn how to read and comprehend contextually in elementary school


Quote:
Of course you can't deny it, it is clear that you are deceived in your ways. That is your choice. I didn't mistranslate it, I see it in english, hebrew and greek.

Anyway, I would rather not continue with long drawn out words with someone you have to constantly say things over and over. I say Enoch walked with God, you think Enoch walked down the road with God. Geeeze, I don't see the need to carry on. When you comprehend better, then I would continue this, until then, wake up.
Yeah.. I never said anything like that.. you have trouble reading English....
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:23 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I like what you're saying. Sometimes I want to reach through the internet and try to shake some sense into these people who distort the word of God. And I am talking about the universalists, the preterists, the allegorical crowd, the soul sleepers...etc. But, that's not possible.

How is it that despite all the scripture, such as you listed above, people can still deny the deity of Christ? And yet, they do. Well, we live in the devils world, and there is much deception in his kingdom. Even when Christ returns and is ruling on the throne of David in the Millennial kingdom, with Satan locked up in the abyss, and unable to deceive, there are still going to be perhaps millions of people who won't believe in Christ. And He will be right here on earth, in glory, visible, and ruling the nations with a rod of iron, in justice. And yet, there will be people who want nothing to do with Him. It is these people who, when Satan is released from his prison for a while at the end of the Millennium, will be deceived and will revolt against the Lord, as is mentioned in Revelation 20:7-10.
I only listed a few scriptures that shows how Christ is God. I think people refuse to believe because they are being deceived.

God walked the earth and they didn't even believe what He was saying to them, so the same is going on today.

I think that it is a powerful thing to understand that Jesus is and always will be God.
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:31 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
My disagreement with you is not that anyone walked with God or that God was represented by a cloud or even was a cloud... My disagreement is that you think that proves that there are three in the cloud, three walking with Israel, and three present in the burning bush...etc. You are trying to say that this is indicative of the God is triune statement and also that means Jesus is God..

So we can drop the walking with portion as I already agreed to it's meaning. I see nowhere that implies support of a triune god or the Jesus Is God...

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

2 Cor. 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Hebrews 1:3 He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being, and he holds everything together by his powerful word. After he had provided a cleansing from sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Highest Majesty

See the verses above.

Well since no one believed he was God when the bible was written they didn't make a point to refute it..
I can attempt to show you why I think the following proves it:

1 Tim. 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

One God, one man.

Nehemiah 9:6 You alone are the LORD. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.

Deuteronomy 4:35 "To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him.

Deuteronomy 4:39 "Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Even Jesus (who you claim is God) says there is only one God..the same God that is Father is the only true God.

HUH? Do you really thing that all of the sudden God changes from his authority to send to who will go for him being plural? So God, Isaiah and Jesus and the holy spirit need to send someone?

Or does it mean that God can refer to himself as one (I) and more than one (us)? Or is it correct to say that only God SENDS but it is more than one who desires someone to go..

So who is the subject in Chapter 5 and 6?
Example: Chapter 5: 3-7
“Now you dwellers in Jerusalem and men of Judah,
judge between me and my vineyard.
What more could have been done for my vineyard
than I have done for it?
When I looked for good grapes,
why did it yield only bad?
Now I will tell you
what I am going to do to my vineyard:
I will take away its hedge,
and it will be destroyed;
I will break down its wall,
and it will be trampled.
I will make it a wasteland,
neither pruned nor cultivated,
and briers and thorns will grow there.
I will command the clouds
not to rain on it.”
The vineyard of the Lord Almighty
is the house of Israel,

And you say I have a hard time with comprehension? There is no reason to think that God suddenly changes from singular to plural so he can prove that there are three of him in 8:6.. He speaks of Isaiah and himself in the "US."

It is quite clear from the text that God is one and it is you who are having trouble understanding...

Quit reading commentaries of men and look at the passage itself. There is no way that God is one and then three in the same passage.. grammatically and contextually you would be laughed out of 4th grade!

We learn how to read and comprehend contextually in elementary school




Yeah.. I never said anything like that.. you have trouble reading English....
Quote:
See the verses above.
You need to see the verses in the bible.

Jesus is God

Creator
(John 1:3) Through him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.

(Col1:16-17) For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

(1John 5:7) For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

(John 20:28-29) And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God. Jesus said to him, Thomas because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. (When Thomas saw him, he knew who Jesus was, because he called him Lord and God)

God is one, I never said that He was not. God is not three separate persons, you don't grasp the consept.

But honestly, this conversation is a stawman arguement, you simply don't see scripture. I am off to another post.
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
You need to see the verses in the bible.

Jesus is God

Creator
(John 1:3) Through him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.
Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host.

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

God spoke and it was done.. His words caused the existence of all things.. There is no reason to think that Christ is the Word. Christ carried the Word as did all the prophets.

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

2 Peter 3:5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by Godís word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water.

The word of God is what Jesus carried.. not what Jesus is... The word of God was carried by flesh.. and did not turn into flesh...

Hosea 11:9 I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I turn and devastate Ephraim. For I am God, and not man--the Holy One among you. I will not come in wrath.

Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Quote:
(Col1:16-17) For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
All things were created in anticipation of Christ and the work of Christ.. All things were a shadow of what was to come..

You base your believe on the translation of the words en, dia, eis? That is the weakest argument I have heard. It seems that you don't read the whole of scripture to get the meaning from it but rather just take a verse hear and there.

Why would Paul say in the verse before that Jesus is the image of God then state that the image of God made all things? That doesn't make sense.. that is like saying the mirror puts your make up on or something similar.

Quote:
(1John 5:7) For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
What version are you using that still has this passage in it?
Peake's Commentary on the Bible says :

"The famous interpolation after 'three witnesses' is not printed even in RSVn, and rightly. It cites the heavenly testimony of the Father, the logos, and the Holy Spirit, but is never used in the early Trinitarian controversies. No respectable Greek MS contains it. Appearing first in a late 4th-cent. Latin text, it entered the Vulgate and finally the NT of Erasmus." Is God a mysterious Trinity no one can understand? - Part 1 of 2
Neither did any of the early fathers record it.. and now we have further proof with the finding of the dead sea scrolls... you really must be desparate to prove a point.... Besides that even the most elementary translator wouldn't render the "logos" as "son".. but the "word". Are you thinking you can deceive me? or is it others you wish to deceive?

Quote:
(John 20:28-29) And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God. Jesus said to him, Thomas because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. (When Thomas saw him, he knew who Jesus was, because he called him Lord and God)
When Thomas saw him he saw the Father... remember what Jesus says: "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)

Quote:
God is one, I never said that He was not. God is not three separate persons, you don't grasp the consept.

But honestly, this conversation is a stawman arguement, you simply don't see scripture. I am off to another post.
  1. Jesus was tempted; yet God cannot be tempted.
  2. Jesus was killed, yet God cannot die.
  3. Satan asked Jesus to worship him; yet, Satan would not DARE make such a request of the Almighty Creator - his Creator.
  4. The God being promoted by those believing Jesus to be God is what God warned about when He cautioned against the worship of other gods.
  5. Jesus prayed; yet, God doesn't pray to another God.
  6. Jesus bled; yet, God doesn't bleed.
  7. The agony in the garden prior to Jesus' death CLEARLY shows his will and God's will were not the same, hence he was a separate person with thoughts and feelings of his own. How is this possible if Jesus is God? Jesus prayed that the cup of his suffering could pass from him. Of course, Jesus surrendered his will to his God's and ours, therefore becoming the example for us to follow. Jesus is clearly a MAN.
  8. Jesus was begotten; yet, God is eternal and was not begotten.
  9. There is not a single example of Christ's acceptance in the entire New Testament where the one accepting Christ was told he/she must believe Jesus is God or where they ever stated such a belief during their acceptance! NOT ONE!
  10. Distinction between Jesus the Messiah and God is CONSTANTLY shown.
  11. Jesus was seen many, many times; yet, the Scriptures UNAMBIGUOUSLY state that God has NEVER been literally seen.
Need I go on?
I cleaned the above up and changed a few words (like Yeshua to Jesus as that is what I call him) but if you are feeling up to it you can read the website to which it belongs:
Torah (Teachings) of Yahshua Messiah (Jesus, Yeshua) - rebuking the Trinity and Lawlessness

Again you don't even acknowledge that you were wrong in saying that Jesus is never called the IMAGE of God.. and you hardly address what I write except to say that I don't understand or don't comprehend scripture... but as you see.. it is you who cannot even admit when the are terribly wrong (Jesus was called an Image or reflection of God)!
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:06 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host.

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

God spoke and it was done.. His words caused the existence of all things.. There is no reason to think that Christ is the Word. Christ carried the Word as did all the prophets.

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

2 Peter 3:5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water.

The word of God is what Jesus carried.. not what Jesus is... The word of God was carried by flesh.. and did not turn into flesh...

Hosea 11:9 I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I turn and devastate Ephraim. For I am God, and not man--the Holy One among you. I will not come in wrath.

Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?



All things were created in anticipation of Christ and the work of Christ.. All things were a shadow of what was to come..

You base your believe on the translation of the words en, dia, eis? That is the weakest argument I have heard. It seems that you don't read the whole of scripture to get the meaning from it but rather just take a verse hear and there.

Why would Paul say in the verse before that Jesus is the image of God then state that the image of God made all things? That doesn't make sense.. that is like saying the mirror puts your make up on or something similar.



What version are you using that still has this passage in it?
Peake's Commentary on the Bible says :

"The famous interpolation after 'three witnesses' is not printed even in RSVn, and rightly. It cites the heavenly testimony of the Father, the logos, and the Holy Spirit, but is never used in the early Trinitarian controversies. No respectable Greek MS contains it. Appearing first in a late 4th-cent. Latin text, it entered the Vulgate and finally the NT of Erasmus." Is God a mysterious Trinity no one can understand? - Part 1 of 2
Neither did any of the early fathers record it.. and now we have further proof with the finding of the dead sea scrolls... you really must be desparate to prove a point.... Besides that even the most elementary translator wouldn't render the "logos" as "son".. but the "word". Are you thinking you can deceive me? or is it others you wish to deceive?

When Thomas saw him he saw the Father... remember what Jesus says: "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)



  1. Jesus was tempted; yet God cannot be tempted.
  2. Jesus was killed, yet God cannot die.
  3. Satan asked Jesus to worship him; yet, Satan would not DARE make such a request of the Almighty Creator - his Creator.
  4. The God being promoted by those believing Jesus to be God is what God warned about when He cautioned against the worship of other gods.
  5. Jesus prayed; yet, God doesn't pray to another God.
  6. Jesus bled; yet, God doesn't bleed.
  7. The agony in the garden prior to Jesus' death CLEARLY shows his will and God's will were not the same, hence he was a separate person with thoughts and feelings of his own. How is this possible if Jesus is God? Jesus prayed that the cup of his suffering could pass from him. Of course, Jesus surrendered his will to his God's and ours, therefore becoming the example for us to follow. Jesus is clearly a MAN.
  8. Jesus was begotten; yet, God is eternal and was not begotten.
  9. There is not a single example of Christ's acceptance in the entire New Testament where the one accepting Christ was told he/she must believe Jesus is God or where they ever stated such a belief during their acceptance! NOT ONE!
  10. Distinction between Jesus the Messiah and God is CONSTANTLY shown.
  11. Jesus was seen many, many times; yet, the Scriptures UNAMBIGUOUSLY state that God has NEVER been literally seen.
Need I go on?
I cleaned the above up and changed a few words (like Yeshua to Jesus as that is what I call him) but if you are feeling up to it you can read the website to which it belongs:
Torah (Teachings) of Yahshua Messiah (Jesus, Yeshua) - rebuking the Trinity and Lawlessness

Again you don't even acknowledge that you were wrong in saying that Jesus is never called the IMAGE of God.. and you hardly address what I write except to say that I don't understand or don't comprehend scripture... but as you see.. it is you who cannot even admit when the are terribly wrong (Jesus was called an Image or reflection of God)!
Once again I will not waste anymore of my time with someone who quotes scripture with little understanding.

You write so much and say so little. I never said that Jesus is not the image of God, I said give me scripture that says that Jesus is the reflection of God.

The scripture says that Jesus is the reflection of God's glory, there is a difference. Once again you write so much and say so little.

The scripture you quote says that God is not a man that He shall not lie, it never says that God was never a man whom walked the the earth, find me scripture that says that God was never a man. And the scripture that you use God was speaking to the children of Isreal before He walked the earth. LOL

As you see I am not really taking the time to really answer your questions, because you are not making any valid points. YOu are providing scripture with no understanding.

You provide a scripture that you are trying to say that God was not a man, when The scripture is not even saying that. Once again you need to learn to comprehend scripture.

Quote:
The word of God is what Jesus carried.. not what Jesus is... The word of God was carried by flesh.. and did not turn into flesh...
Show me scripture that says that Jesus is not the word, show me scripture that says that God was not in flesh. Show me scripture that says that God never turned into flesh

John 1

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Quote:
God spoke and it was done.. His words caused the existence of all things.. There is no reason to think that Christ is the Word. Christ carried the Word as did all the prophets.
John 1

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Quote:
God spoke and it was done.. His words caused the existence of all things.. There is no reason to think that Christ is the Word. Christ carried the Word as did all the prophets.
God spoke/ The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit created.

Colossians 1:15-16


The Supremacy of Christ

16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Quote:
Hosea 11:9 I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I turn and devastate Ephraim. For I am God, and not man--the Holy One among you. I will not come in wrath.
Once again you don't even know who God was talking too in this verse. God was talking to The Children of Israel and He was saying that He would hold back His wrath from them. When God was speaking to them, He was not a man, He had not come to earth as a man yet. You quote a scripture from the OT to the children of Israel. That is what I am talking about you quoting scripture not knowing who it was for and what it means. LOL, you write so much with so little understanding.

Quote:
When Thomas saw him he saw the Father... remember what Jesus says: "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)
No, He saw Jesus, the Father was in Him. He was God in the Form of Jesus. To see one is to see the other. You are the one having a hard time with the consept. Jesus is to see God, because they are one.

You are confused. I have been saying the entire time that Jesus and the Father are one. Then I give you scripture that shows that Thomas saw God, and then you say, no He saw the Father.

That is what I have been telling you all along. LOL, you trip over your own words. Jesus and the Father are one, to see one is to see the other. LOL, can't help but say it again, I see why you are confused.

I can only wait for your two page paragraph of written not understood scriptures and explanations.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 10-29-2009 at 12:41 AM..
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:54 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,358,674 times
Reputation: 576
God
God never changes.
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus

Jesus never changes.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God

God is the only Saviour.

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11
To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12
God our Saviour. Titus 2:10
...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10 God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

Jesus

...our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18

...the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42
...the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4
a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11
Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
--Acts 4:12
...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
--2 Timothy 2:10
...captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings.
-- Heb 2:10 [Jesus]...author of eternal salvation...
-- Heb 5:9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God

God created the universe and earth by Himself.

I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. Isaiah 44:24 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

Jesus

Jesus Christ created the universe and the earth.

nto the Son he saith...Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands. Hebrews 1:10
y him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God

God is the Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

Jesus

Jesus is the Word.
...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God


God is the first and the last.I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4

Jesus


Jesus is the first and the last.Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God

God forgives sins.

[T]he Lord..forgiveth all thine iniquities... Psalm 103:2-3 "[W]ho can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7

Jesus

Jesus forgives sins.
Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God

God is our redeemer.
[T]hou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer.. Isaiah 63:16

Jesus

Jesus redeemed us.
[T]the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Once again I will not waste anymore of my time with someone who quotes scripture with little understanding.

You write so much and say so little. I never said that Jesus is not the image of God, I said give me scripture that says that Jesus is the reflection of God.
Apparently you don't read your own posts... LOL
I suppose you will comment on the wording but really you lie.
Here is what you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post

Show me scripture that says that Jesus is a reflection of God, because scripture says that Jesus is God and yes He is the Word and He is God. I don't have to say it, the scripture says it.

No, you are wrong, they were made in the image, they are not the image. The bible does not say that Jesus was made in the image of God, it says that He is God.
Quote:
The scripture says that Jesus is the reflection of God's glory, there is a difference. Once again you write so much and say so little.
I can see that you tend to distort what is said and misunderstand when I am speaking very clearly.. You list massive verses that no one in their right mind would look up in an attempt to list the attributes of Christ yet you can't take the time to respond to very simple statements? Instead you choose to lie about what you said?

Two different versions so you can understand:

Hebrews 1:3 His Son is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of God's being. He holds everything together through his powerful words. After he had cleansed people from their sins, he received the highest position, the one next to the Father in heaven.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

So yes he is the reflection of God's glory AND the exact likeness of God's being or express image of his person.

AN image is not the original it is a representation or reflection! PLEASE! if you are going to say I cannot comprehend then I guess I can say that you deliberately twisting my words, your words, and scripture.

Quote:
The scripture you quote says that God is not a man that He shall not lie, it never says that God was never a man, find me scripture that says that God was never a man.

As you see I am not really taking the time to really answer your questions, because you are not making any valied points. YOu are providing scripture with no understanding.

You provide a scripture that you are trying to say that God was not a man, when The scripture is not even saying that. Once again you need to learn to comprehend scripture.
Again you say I cannot understand scripture yet you squabble over "is not a man" over "was never a man" and "cannot be a man"... don't you think that is sad?

How about you find me a scripture that says "Jesus is God" or "you must believe that Jesus is God"

You infer Christ as the word of God yet you demand that I find verses with exact phrases? Yet I responded without deception.. you on the other hand have misled and demanded that I show you verses that cannot exist because they NT writers nor the OT believed that Jesus would be or was God.. so why would they refute it or suppose that God could even be a human being?

I will show you one reason why I believe God cannot possibly fit into a human:
Rev. 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

The earth and sky fled from his presence yet you think that can be stuffed into a human? I cannot say that. God cannot be contained like that ...

Not to mention that God is Spirit and is clearly not flesh and blood.

Quote:
John 1

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



John 1

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



God spoke

Colossians 1:15-16


The Supremacy of Christ

16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Was there a comment here or are you just repeating yourself? For one who reads the original language you should know that by, for , through.. should be translated according to context not like that.. We can clearly see the context.

Again the word was made flesh is not the same as saying "Jesus is God"

Where is it said "Jesus is God?"

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