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Old 10-29-2009, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
Reputation: 1690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
God
God never changes.
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus

Jesus never changes.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God

God is the only Saviour.

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11
To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12
God our Saviour. Titus 2:10
...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10 God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

Jesus

...our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18

...the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42
...the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4
a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11
Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
--Acts 4:12
...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
--2 Timothy 2:10
...captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings.
-- Heb 2:10 [Jesus]...author of eternal salvation...
-- Heb 5:9
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God

God created the universe and earth by Himself.

I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. Isaiah 44:24 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

Jesus

Jesus Christ created the universe and the earth.

nto the Son he saith...Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands. Hebrews 1:10
y him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God

God is the Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

Jesus

Jesus is the Word.
...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God


God is the first and the last.I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4

Jesus


Jesus is the first and the last.Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God

God forgives sins.

[T]he Lord..forgiveth all thine iniquities... Psalm 103:2-3 "[W]ho can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7

Jesus

Jesus forgives sins.
Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God

God is our redeemer.
[T]hou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer.. Isaiah 63:16

Jesus

Jesus redeemed us.
[T]the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14
Unfortunately you have lost all credibility with me.. You totally lied about something so small... These verses are nice.. but without any understanding or integrity... I cannot even muster the stomach to address these. Especially when you won't even take the time to truly answer my posts.. as you say:
"As you see I am not really taking the time to really answer your questions, because you are not making any valied points."
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:08 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,344,680 times
Reputation: 576
Continue:

God

God is the Holy One

Psalms 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth,O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.
Psalms 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.
Psalms 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Messianic Psalm)

Jesus

Jesus is the Holy One.

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
3:13-14 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 13:34-35 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God

Only God is worshipped.
... Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10

Jesus

Jesus is worshipped.

While [Jesus] spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him... Matthew 9:18
And again, when [God] bringeth in the firstbegotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6 And Thomas answered and said unto [Jesus], My Lord and my God. John 20:28
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God

God is Messiah.
...unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder...and his name shall be called... The mighty God, The everlasting Father... Isaiah 9:6

Jesus

Jesus is Messiah.
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. John 4:25-26
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God

God is from everlasting.
The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting. Psalms 93:1-2

Jesus


Messiah Yeshua (Jesus) is from everlasting. But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah...out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Micah 5:2

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God

God is 'I am'.
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Exodus 3:14

Jesus

Jesus is 'I am'.
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am</I>. John 8:58
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God

[God heals all diseases.
Bless the LORD...who healeth all thy diseases. Psalms 103:2

Jesus

Jesus heals all diseases.
[Jesus] healed all that were sick. Matthew 8:16

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God

God is the Judge of the whole earth.

O Lord God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. Psalms 94:1-2 [Abraham to God]...Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Genesis 18:25

Jesus
Jesus is the Judge of the whole earth.
[T]he Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: John 5:22
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God

God has life in Himself.
[T]he Father hath life in himself; John 5:26

Jesus

Jesus raises the dead.
[T]he Son quickeneth whom he will. John 5:21

Only the fool says that Jesus is not God....................
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:15 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,344,680 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Unfortunately you have lost all credibility with me.. You totally lied about something so small... These verses are nice.. but without any understanding or integrity... I cannot even muster the stomach to address these. Especially when you won't even take the time to truly answer my posts.. as you say:
"As you see I am not really taking the time to really answer your questions, because you are not making any valied points."
You can't argue with scripture.

Where is it said "Jesus is God?"

I gave you the scripture twice.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14

John 20:28

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

I went back over what I wrote, and what I meant to write is Jesus is not in the image of man. It would not make sense for me to write Jesus is not in the image of God, and then argue that He is God. That is a typo on my part. When you constantly write image of God that is what you naturally write, over image of man, which is obviously wrong, to make a point.

Quote:
No, you are wrong, they were made in the image, they are not the image. The bible does not say that Jesus was made in the image of God, it says that He is God.



They were made in the image, they are not the image. The bible does not say that Jesus was made in the image of man, it says that He is God. This is what I meant to say. I don't need to lie about something that I believe. I didn't even see the post due every post that you write being a mile long.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 10-29-2009 at 01:01 AM..
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:22 AM
 
37,510 posts, read 25,243,901 times
Reputation: 5857
Default Grow up . . . you shame the very God you praise.

Miss Shawn,

This sort of "neener, neener, neener" . . . "I'm not listening. I can't hear you!" . . . in your face childish posting supposedly in defense of your God and your interpretation of Him is just plain annoying. Engage in intelligent discussion and critique or admit you are too immature to do so.
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:25 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,344,680 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Miss Shawn,

This sort of "neener, neener, neener" . . . "I'm not listening. I can't hear you!" . . . in your face childish posting supposedly in defense of your God and your interpretation of Him is just plain annoying. Engage in intelligent discussion and critique or admit you are too immature to do so.
If it is annoying then leave. There is nothing intelligent about listening about your interpretation of God which you have made up along the way.
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Old 10-29-2009, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
You can't argue with scripture.

Where is it said "Jesus is God?"

I gave you the scripture twice.
You demanded that I find a verse that stated that God could not be man rather than God IS not man... Now you give the verse that says the word was God and another with the word being flesh? I don't dispute those things... I asked where is the verse (notice the quotation marks) that says "Jesus is God."

This doesn't exist which is why you can't find it.

Quote:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14

John 20:28

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Again.. these verses don't say that Jesus is God. Jesus himself claims to be the Son of God, not God..

Obviously we are back to square one. I had this same conversation with these same verses earlier with you, and also in another thread with another poster. The same thing always happens. Personal attacks and the repetition of verses that don't say Jesus is God.

You stated that the bible says Jesus is God... where does it say those exact words?

Quote:
I went back over what I wrote, and what I meant to write is Jesus is not in the image of man. It would not make sense for me to write Jesus is not in the image of God, and then argue that He is God. That is a typo on my part. When you constantly write image of God that is what you naturally write, over image of man, which is obviously wrong, to make a point.
Again a squabble over simple words. You said an untruth about what you wrote and here you are trying to justify it. It is sad because it just shows that you are comfortable with stretching the truth.


Quote:
They were made in the image, they are not the image. The bible does not say that Jesus was made in the image of man, it says that He is God. This is what I meant to say. I don't need to lie about something that I believe. I didn't even see the post due every post that you write being a mile long.
The underlined portion where you change the word God to man makes no sense in the argument you presented..

But...I showed you several verses that pertain to Jesus being a man. Here are several more reasons why I believe Jesus is not God and is a man:
First he calls himself son of man.. that indicates he is a man.
Second..
2 John 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Hebrews 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

Jesus was flesh and was the image of man's sinful nature.. we all know this. The part that bothers me is that you have said more than once, THE BIBLE SAYS HE IS GOD.. when it clearly does not. You interpret it that way but it doesn't say that.

So not only have you insulted my intelligence, but you have lied then tried to say you didn't lie.. Again.. integrity and credibility have been compromised. Mystic has it right.. anyone can see, even though they may not agree with my stance on Jesus as God in the flesh, your discussion/argument here is without credibility and you have shown very little integrity.

I hope you read through the entire thread again to see that 3 of your posts have been extremely long and yet you will not answer to the simplest of things...

I however have answered most if not all of your concerns and you choose to ignore them. I am sorry it turned out this way.. but if you look at the posts you will see that you did not sufficiently back up your argument that Jesus is God or even that Jesus or any of the OT/NT writers thought there was a trinity. You went as far as to quote a verse that is agreed upon as an interpolation. Knowing your background in scripture and that you KNOW it is an interpolation and not found in the greek texts.. you deliberately tried to deceive..
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:11 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,344,680 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You demanded that I find a verse that stated that God could not be man rather than God IS not man... Now you give the verse that says the word was God and another with the word being flesh? I don't dispute those things... I asked where is the verse (notice the quotation marks) that says "Jesus is God."

This doesn't exist which is why you can't find it.

Again.. these verses don't say that Jesus is God. Jesus himself claims to be the Son of God, not God..

Obviously we are back to square one. I had this same conversation with these same verses earlier with you, and also in another thread with another poster. The same thing always happens. Personal attacks and the repetition of verses that don't say Jesus is God.

You stated that the bible says Jesus is God... where does it say those exact words?

Again a squabble over simple words. You said an untruth about what you wrote and here you are trying to justify it. It is sad because it just shows that you are comfortable with stretching the truth.


The underlined portion where you change the word God to man makes no sense in the argument you presented..

But...I showed you several verses that pertain to Jesus being a man. Here are several more reasons why I believe Jesus is not God and is a man:
First he calls himself son of man.. that indicates he is a man.
Second..
2 John 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Hebrews 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

Jesus was flesh and was the image of man's sinful nature.. we all know this. The part that bothers me is that you have said more than once, THE BIBLE SAYS HE IS GOD.. when it clearly does not. You interpret it that way but it doesn't say that.

So not only have you insulted my intelligence, but you have lied then tried to say you didn't lie.. Again.. integrity and credibility have been compromised. Mystic has it right.. anyone can see, even though they may not agree with my stance on Jesus as God in the flesh, your discussion/argument here is without credibility and you have shown very little integrity.

I hope you read through the entire thread again to see that 3 of your posts have been extremely long and yet you will not answer to the simplest of things...

I however have answered most if not all of your concerns and you choose to ignore them. I am sorry it turned out this way.. but if you look at the posts you will see that you did not sufficiently back up your argument that Jesus is God or even that Jesus or any of the OT/NT writers thought there was a trinity. You went as far as to quote a verse that is agreed upon as an interpolation. Knowing your background in scripture and that you KNOW it is an interpolation and not found in the greek texts.. you deliberately tried to deceive..
I did answer you question you desperately just don't want to see it.

Jesus is called the Word and The Word is called God. If you can't understand that, you just want understand. You are the one back to square one, I am right where I need to be, understanding and seeing scripture for what it says.

Hebrew 1:8

8But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

I am sure you will still fight against the truth, The Son is called God.
You can disagree with me, but you are disagreeing with scripture.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 10-29-2009 at 11:23 AM..
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Old 10-29-2009, 01:12 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,434,483 times
Reputation: 989
Dear Miss Shawn,
What do you think about Jesus ascending to His God and their [the disciple's] God in John 20:17?

If He ascended to THEIR God what does that tell you?

blessings,
Eusebius
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Old 10-29-2009, 01:46 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Dear Miss Shawn,
What do you think about Jesus ascending to His God and their [the disciple's] God in John 20:17?

If He ascended to THEIR God what does that tell you?

blessings,
Eusebius
Jesus was speaking from the standpoint of His humanity. As the God-Man, there were times when He spoke from the standpoint of His deity, there were times when He spoke from the standpoint of His humanity, and there were times when He spoke from the standpoint of His hypostatic union.

From Deity: (John 8:58) ''Before Abraham was, I Am.'' His humanity did not exist eternally; His deity did.

From humanity: (John 19:28) ''...I thirst.'' Deity cannot thirst.

From hypostatic union: (Matthew 11:28) ''Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

And John 14:6 ''Jesus said to him, ''I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.''

From the standpoint of His humanity, Jesus referred to the Father as 'My God.' As for 'their God', He was from the standpoint of his humanity, referring to the Father as His God and their God.

As deity, Jesus Christ is co-equal and co-eternal with both God the Father and with God the Holy Spirit.
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Old 10-29-2009, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I did answer you question you desperately just don't want to see it.

Jesus is called the Word and The Word is called God. If you can't understand that, you just want understand. You are the one back to square one, I am right where I need to be, understanding and seeing scripture for what it says.

Hebrew 1:8

8But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

I am sure you will still fight against the truth, The Son is called God.
You can disagree with me, but you are disagreeing with scripture.
See here again you don't address any of my concerns...

I asked you to prove that Jesus is God... You have proven that by reading this verse here and others but ignoring some you can come up with the possibility that Jesus may have been thought of as God... but you have not proven that he is God..

If this is such and important principal in Christianity shouldn't we study to show ourselves approved and be able to relay that to others?

Again from a non-christian perspective, you have not proven what you believe to be essential information for salvation.

But I understand that you can only draw from what knowledge you have...

Now to address the verse you posted:
Quote:

Hebrew 1:8


8But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
All these quote other passages from the OT..

This is a quote of:
Psalm 45:6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

So obviously the "he says" in the first part of the verse is better translated as "it is said" because we know that God did not say these words but David (most likely) did.

Why would God say "O God?"

In context, David is not even talking for God, he is talking about God's throne. So it we know that Jesus is the scepter of uprightness and that God's throne lasts forever and ever. But you are saying that Jesus is God because the statement is directed to Jesus but it clearly isn't. The point is that Jesus is the scepter or rod which is also how Revelation describes him.

This doesn't address whether Jesus is God or not.
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