Churches that Teach Members how to Speak in Tongues (Commandment, sanctification, witnesses)
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There is nothing in the "covenant about speaking tongues" As for what is edifying, I don't declare it. Paul declared it. and common sense confirms it.
I, and every living person knows what gibberish is for. It is for confusion and delusion.
Yes, all those non tongues speaking believers out there caring for one another, giving to the poor, and caring for the sick and visiting the isolated elderly in need of friendship and love, as per Christ's instructions to them, they are rejecting the spirit, but you who call attention to yourselves and wallow in ecstatic self indulgence, You are the true followers of Christ. No attention being drawn to you. Pardon me while I wretch!
I have a pretty good Idea that I dodged a spiritual bullet, and there's nothing preventing me or any other believer from being a blessing to God's people through the fruits of His spirit which scripture makes quite clear is THE true evidence of the presence of God's spirit in a believer.
I proved that there is with probably 50 witnesses already. Furthermore, the covenant at Sinai was a foreshadowing of what happened on the day of Pentecost, that was prophesied in Joel.
I didn't say they were rejecting the Spirit, as only believers can receive the Holy Ghost. They are not the same working of the Spirit. Same Spirit, but diversities thereof, which is why John refers to both the Spirit and the Holy Ghost they hadn't received yet.
Unfortunately for you, you'd be wrong. You care more about your appearance and keeping your "decorum" than you do receiving more of Him. No more deadly a bullet than that. Peace
I know I'm asking a lot, but think this through for a moment. First of all, talking about "works of the flesh" is pointless when discussing actions taken by anyone at the Tower of babble, because before the day of Pentecost, the spirit was only available to certain chosen people, therefore any act carried out by the people would have been an act of the flesh, and God is aware of this. This is not why He did what He did. The people at babble had rejected God’s guidance, and were attempting to create their own system of worship that left God out. If He allowed them to continue on their path, they would have forgotten Him entirely. God stepped in to prevent the human race from falling under the sway of a single, absolute tyrant over all the earth. and if that had happened they would then have been eternally doomed. God’s command was to “Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have dominion … over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.” This was both their charge and their Blessing. By rejecting God’s charge to fill the earth and subdue it, they were rejecting His blessing as well. Building the Tower was just a symptom of their rejection of God’s guidance, and God’s reaction was for the purpose of setting them back on the path He had set for them to begin with. Confusing their speech by separating the Languages was His way of ensuring that they had no choice but to follow his command to fill the earth and subdue it. Globalization and mass media now threaten to bring about what God set out to prevent at Babble. One world Government is what will usher in the rule of the antichrist. For these reasons, the diversification of languages was far from a curse. It was the opposite of a curse. It would have been a curse to allow them to continue on the path they were on. It would have been their doom.
Think this through for a moment. As far back as Adam who knew what it meant to be a priest, G-d made sure that man knew some of His expectations, and had a conscience as part of his make up to go along with it, even before the Torah was written. And because you are accountable for what you know, it still carries weight and consequences Adam found out in the garden.
Further, there is the comparison of natural to spiritual by which we learn, and the WHOLE of the OT is to be used in this way. Peace
When Paul speaks of the "fruit" of the Holy Spirit, nowhere does he mention tongues:
Galatians 5:22-23
Apparently you HAVE fallen into the trap of pride by rejecting God's words of warning through Paul. And once Pride is on the throne of your heart---you have no gifts to offer anyone at all. And notice the cloud of witnesses arrayed against your projections of holiness and secret meanings. You not only have two witnesses--I believe you have six or seven or more that fail to see any godliness in your projections. Why is that? Why is your "gift" not a witness to others and even appears to be a downfall in your own spiritual worship? For if it was building you up, all of us would be able to see the Love of God. Instead it is sounding more and more like Benny Hinn.
I feel very sorry for you because you have a "gift" but it gives you no peace--and it clouds any witness you may have ever had about Jesus as Savior. You have become what Satan claimed in Job----no one serves God simply because He is God, they serve Him because of the benefits (tongues for example) they receive. You have appropriated the impulse to be omniscient without possessing the divine capacity to be omniscient. YOU see into the hearts and minds of others.
Thank you but no thank you---I have enough of my own spiritual struggles to engage in still another.
Your gift should be one that you practice in your prayer closet, not one you wave from the housetops--instead you are using what should be a gift to lift your own spirit toward God to judge others---in that respect it appears Christ is crucified afresh with what should be a personal gift. It has become a weapon in your presumption to help God fix other people, as if you, or any of us, had the power and wisdom to do this--and as though God needs your help. Over and over you seek momentary ethical superiority to fill the vacuum that stands in the middle of your "gifts." You feed your empty heart with the illusion that you are a fixer rather than like the rest of us---needing fixing. We are blamed for fact that we don't conform to YOUR judgments.
My grandmother never said a word of tongues in church, nor spoke about it to her children or grandchildren, yet it was a powerful witness exactly because it wasn't touted. Your words are just speaking into the air---as Paul warned about.
I Cor. 13:8
from that "reprobate" Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Unbelievable that you would exalt your grandmother, but not the Holy Ghost that she received. Do you think she would be pleased, much less the Lord that shed it for her and for you?
Let's take a close look at part of the chapter you are distorting to fit your personal agenda. And for the record, your "witnesses" are false witnesses because they are aligned with the carnal mind, not the Spirit of G-d, and certainly not with the scriptures. Also, tongues is not listed as a fruit? Of course it's not! Do you not understand the candlestick design? There are gifts and fruits of the Spirit for a reason, and the number 9 and the placement and design of the branches that represent both fruits and gifts, display this truth.
I CORINTHIANS 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy.
Notice that it says here in the very first line, that we are to desire SPIRITUAL gifts. Prophesy is listed last in the gifts for a reason; it takes a growth and experience of the others FIRST to attain to it, and without the Holy Ghost is it IMPOSSIBLE.
14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
Notice who speaks in an unknown (no interpreter) tongue speaks unto God and speaks mysteries.
14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
Notice how it says that this gift you detest so much, EDIFIES (builds up) the speaker. Which is why we are told elsewhere that we BUILD UP our most holy faith by PRAYING in the Holy Ghost. Paul is NOT condemning it at all, but rather contrasting the difference between the two gifts.
14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
In this next verse, he even says that he would that we ALL SPAKE WITH TONGUES, but rather (for the reasons given) to prophesy be given the preeminence so that the church TOO will receive building up. Again, you can't have one gift without the other, he's merely pointing out the difference in purposes of the two.
14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
He further goes on to explain why your praying in tongues is not helpful to the body, unless these other things are present, not that you shouldn't do it at all. Note that ALL of the things that he mentions after that, ALSO come via the gifts of the Spirit.
14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification.
14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian unto me.
In all of the above 5 scriptures he is NOT condemning them at all, merely once again, giving the reason why you should seek gifts beyond JUST praying in tongues for your own edification, not that you shouldn't do it at all, in fact, just the opposite.
14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
Notice here that he is saying that they are zealous of spiritual gifts, which is a good thing, but that he wants them to seek to attain the ones that edify not just themselves, but the edifying of the church as well. This is not the same as saying you should do it at all, but rather that you grow in the gifts.
14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.
Then he goes on to say that when you do speak in an unknown tongue (NOT THAT YOU SHOULDN'T), pray that you also receive the interpretation of what was spoken (when there is someone besides just you present, obviously).
14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
It's plain here who does the praying and it's our spirit. Why ANYONE would think that is a bad thing, is beyond me. When it's just us one on one with G-d praying, we don't have to know everything that is being said. It doesn't mean it's not accomplishing something, because we were already told above that it builds us up. It simply means we won't understand what was said. No one that trusts the Spirit has a problem with that, believe it or not.
14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Note here he is saying that the answer to the "problem" is, THAT YOU DO BOTH, ie. pray with the spirit, and pray with interpretation following also, and sing with both as well (if you've never heard it, I can assure you it's quite beautiful), each in it's respective "place", either alone or with the body.
14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
And again, he gives the reason why is so that your brother is blessed and edified also, not that you don't do it at all. He even says that when you are praying in the spirit, you are giving thanks to G-d, which is what was heard on the day of Pentecost, men speaking of the wondrous works of G-d. What a shock.
And NO WHERE is pride mentioned as being a deterrent to any of it, even once. That is something carnal men that refuse to humble themselves to look foolish in the eyes of other carnal men, is mirroring back at them.
14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
Note that above, after all his discourse on the difference between tongues for the believer alone and tongues for the believer in a body, just to make sure no one twisted what he said into saying they should forgo the private gift altogether, he adds that he speaks in tongues more than all of them.
14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my undersanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
And once again, he reiterates, that as great as that is, because of the edification of the body, he would still prefer tongues with interpretation to build up the body. All he is dealing with here is the motive of the heart involved.
14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
14:21 In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak until this people; and yet for all that will they not hear, me saith the Lord.
And in the above two he is chastising them mildly because he is wanting them to understand and come into balance as mature men, and not cast off the gift as it was foretold in the law through prophesy, that some would. Yet that is precisely what many do. I think it's interesting that he contrasts understanding these things, with malice. Seems to me he's sharing the root of refusing to understand these things and going off in either direction instead of staying the course explained.
The rest of the chapter goes on to continue to illustrate the principles expounded upon, describe the order things are to be given in, and at the very end, to drive home what he said in FAVOR of tongues, he adds...
14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and FORBID NOT TO SPEAK WITH TONGUES.
And it would probably be good to point out verse 26...
14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, EVERY ONE OF YOU hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, HATH A TONGUE, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
These are things that are happening when YOUR body comes together, right? If not, why not? Is Paul a liar or have you sided with your denomination against the words of the Lord? By the way, since Paul said you should be prophesying and speaking in tongues with an interpreter and your sole point is that the right order be taken in these matters, when is the last time the Holy Ghost did either one of those through you? Peace
.....14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?....
Do you honestly think that people will miss the fact that your entire post is about defending the "gift" itself rather than the USE of it which is the point being made?
Do you honestly think that people will miss the fact that your entire post is about defending the "gift" itself rather than the USE of it which is the point being made?
Yes, Nate, she is so caught up in glorifying the "gift" and praising all others doing the same, it is obvious what god she worships. And she uses it to do EXACTLY what that other tongue speaker warned about in my link. She has twisted what should be a private, humble method of addressing God into the same self-glorification so that she can feel "better" than others.
She is unable to accept warning from either those who do not speak in tongues nor from those that do. And she refuses to study Scripture to see how it has changed in interpretation over the centuries and glorifies her ignorance as coming from God. It indeed comes from some "spiritual" place---just not from God. Anyone not accepting her view is of a "carnal" mind and unworthy of being in the "inner" court.
I see no way of helping her to escape from her own spider's web of a trap. None of us can come to love others as God demands until we can see ourselves for what we are--as God requires.
It's a sad Christmas season for someone perhaps able to worship the baby in the manger, but unable to follow the commands of the Man who faced the cross.
I'm wondering why we're still discussing 'tongues' as if they are something other than a biblical term for (known) languages. English, Chinese, Swahili, etc. etc. These are 'tongues' and nothing other.
I'm also wondering why we're still discussing 'angelic language' when any mention by Paul of such a language was never intended to be taken literally but was clearly hyperbole. Angelic language'? Where on earth do we get that from scripture? To my understanding, whenever angels were purported to have spoken to a human they spoke in that human's native language. It was not necessary for that angel to 'gift' the human with multilingual abilities.
Paul's audience would have known what he meant when he used exaggerated language in reference to 'the tongues of angels'. Why are WE in the year 2017 having such a tough time understanding what he meant?
To those who claim some infilling of the Holy Spirit that somehow permits them to speak the language of angels, take a look at this from Paul:
Paul claims to have been caught up to paradise (2 Corinthians/12:4). He claims to have heard unspeakable words, which a man is not allowed to speak. How do the "I speak the language of angels" tribe explain this?
[color="Navy"]I'm wondering why we're still discussing 'tongues' as if they are something other than a biblical term for (known) languages. English, Chinese, Swahili, etc. etc. These are 'tongues' and nothing other.
I wonder the same thing.
Quote:
... I'm also wondering why we're still discussing 'angelic language' when any mention by Paul of such a language was never intended to be taken literally but was clearly hyperbole. Angelic language'? Where on earth do we get that from scripture? To my understanding, whenever angels were purported to have spoken to a human they spoke in that human's native language. It was not necessary for that angel to 'gift' the human with multilingual abilities.
I have asked the same question.
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