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Trespass:[/b] commit a sin; violate a law of God or a moral law; wrongdoing, guiltiness; To commit an offense or a sin.
Like you have said to Little Elmer......I am going with Jesus until we have a new Bible with your name in it.
You do not need a new Bible - you just need to study the one you have a bit more.
Lets take a closer look at the verse you quoted:
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Your definition of the word trespass is incorrect. If you look at the Greek word translated as trespass you will see that it does not always refer to willful sin.
Strongs:
paraptōma - From G3895; a side slip (lapse or deviation), that is, (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression: - fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.
Vines:
TRESPASS paraptoma ^3900^, primarily "a false step, a blunder"
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)
(Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)
Paraptoma might be used for willful sin if the context allowed - for example if I were to commit a trespass it would be willful - that is what commit means.
However, since we know that God does not forgive willful sin in those who have been converted it can only mean "unintentional error".
If I were to refuse to act in love to my brother or anyone else it would be willful sin. However if we make a mistake or act without thinking and are not patient or kind etc. we have made a "false step" or blunder and it is "unintentional sin"
If you do not distinguish between sins of ignorance and willful sin you cannot possibly understand the First epistle of John because he did understand and applied that distinction in his writings.
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Question: What was in John’s mind when he used the word sin? Was he talking about sins of ignorance or willful sin - or both?
Answer: As a Jewish man trained in the Scriptures we can be certain John understood that sins of ignorance could be forgiven and that presumptuous (willful) sin was not forgiven. John was taught from childhood that:
a. Sins of ignorance condemn to death (Lev 5:17*) and required atonement (Num 15:28*)
b. Presumptuous (willful) sin was not forgiven (Num 15:30*)
c. The Day of Atonement covered only sins of ignorance. (Heb 9:7*)
( * = complete verse quoted below )
In His first epistle John said that “…if any man sin we have an advocate…” At the same time John also taught that the child of God did not *commit* sin:
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
If the sin in 1John 2:1 is the same type of sin as 3:9 - John was would be contradicting himself because in verse 2:1 John says to the children of God “…if any man sin we have an advocate…” Yet in verse 3:9 John says “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin.”
You do not need a new Bible - you just need to study the one you have a bit more.
Lets take a closer look at the verse you quoted:
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Your definition of the word trespass is incorrect. If you look at the Greek word translated as trespass you will see that it does not always refer to willful sin.
Strongs:
paraptōma - From G3895; a side slip (lapse or deviation), that is, (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression: - fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.
Vines:
TRESPASS paraptoma ^3900^, primarily "a false step, a blunder"
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)
(Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)
Paraptoma might be used for willful sin if the context allowed - for example if I were to commit a trespass it would be willful - that is what commit means.
However, since we know that God does not forgive willful sin in those who have been converted it can only mean "unintentional error".
If I were to refuse to act in love to my brother or anyone else it would be willful sin. However if we make a mistake or act without thinking and are not patient or kind etc. we have made a "false step" or blunder and it is "unintentional sin"
If you do not distinguish between sins of ignorance and willful sin you cannot possibly understand the First epistle of John because he did understand and applied that distinction in his writings.
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Question: What was in John’s mind when he used the word sin? Was he talking about sins of ignorance or willful sin - or both?
Answer: As a Jewish man trained in the Scriptures we can be certain John understood that sins of ignorance could be forgiven and that presumptuous (willful) sin was not forgiven. John was taught from childhood that:
a. Sins of ignorance condemn to death (Lev 5:17*) and required atonement (Num 15:28*)
b. Presumptuous (willful) sin was not forgiven (Num 15:30*)
c. The Day of Atonement covered only sins of ignorance. (Heb 9:7*)
( * = complete verse quoted below )
In His first epistle John said that “…if any man sin we have an advocate…” At the same time John also taught that the child of God did not *commit* sin:
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
If the sin in 1John 2:1 is the same type of sin as 3:9 - John was would be contradicting himself because in verse 2:1 John says to the children of God “…if any man sin we have an advocate…” Yet in verse 3:9 John says “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin.”
HK
It's OK.... Harold!! Jesus will forgive you and so do I !
You do not need a new Bible - you just need to study the one you have a bit more.
Lets take a closer look at the verse you quoted:
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Your definition of the word trespass is incorrect. If you look at the Greek word translated as trespass you will see that it does not always refer to willful sin.
Strongs:
paraptōma - From G3895; a side slip (lapse or deviation), that is, (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression: - fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.
Vines:
TRESPASS paraptoma ^3900^, primarily "a false step, a blunder"
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)
(Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)
Paraptoma might be used for willful sin if the context allowed - for example if I were to commit a trespass it would be willful - that is what commit means.
However, since we know that God does not forgive willful sin in those who have been converted it can only mean "unintentional error".
If I were to refuse to act in love to my brother or anyone else it would be willful sin. However if we make a mistake or act without thinking and are not patient or kind etc. we have made a "false step" or blunder and it is "unintentional sin"
If you do not distinguish between sins of ignorance and willful sin you cannot possibly understand the First epistle of John because he did understand and applied that distinction in his writings.
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Question: What was in John’s mind when he used the word sin? Was he talking about sins of ignorance or willful sin - or both?
Answer: As a Jewish man trained in the Scriptures we can be certain John understood that sins of ignorance could be forgiven and that presumptuous (willful) sin was not forgiven. John was taught from childhood that:
a. Sins of ignorance condemn to death (Lev 5:17*) and required atonement (Num 15:28*)
b. Presumptuous (willful) sin was not forgiven (Num 15:30*)
c. The Day of Atonement covered only sins of ignorance. (Heb 9:7*)
( * = complete verse quoted below )
In His first epistle John said that “…if any man sin we have an advocate…” At the same time John also taught that the child of God did not *commit* sin:
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
If the sin in 1John 2:1 is the same type of sin as 3:9 - John was would be contradicting himself because in verse 2:1 John says to the children of God “…if any man sin we have an advocate…” Yet in verse 3:9 John says “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin.”
HK
And it's a great way to justify yourself by your own self righteousness.
Which is a sin of willfulness.........I am choosing to hate, dislike, and intentionally hurt my brother/sister/neighbor for what ever reasons I can not justify it......it is willful sin of breaking the law of love!
Yes, that would be true if it were done intentionally in the sense that you were refusing to obey God and act in love. However, if it is done unintentionally or carelessly without rebellion it is a "trespass" (paraptoma) and can be forgiven if we repent.
By saying every trespass is committing willful sin you have a real dilemma. John says that if the child of God sins we have an advocate with the Father
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
but he also says that the child of God does does not commit sin and if he does he is a child of the devil.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
So here is your dilemma - you say that every time you trespass it is committing sin and that God will forgive your trespasses.
But John says that those who commit sin are not children of God so 1 John 2:1 does not apply to you.
According to John the children of God have an advocate but those who commit sin are not children of God.
The dilemma is solved by understanding that John distinguished between sins of ignorance (unintentional sin) and committing sin.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; (willful sin)
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, (unintentional sin)
In the same way the Father will forgive our trespasses (paraptoma - blunders, errors, unintentional sin) just as we forgive others their trespasses.
But to say that God will forgive willful sin among those who are born of God contradicts all of the testimony of Scripture to the contrary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp No problem... I do not commit sin - you say you do.
HK
Lattechic
Quote:
No.... I didn't say I did! The statement was meant.......People in general, used in the "I am"..... who are choosing to.
I don't hate anyone! So therefore I am not committing the sin....
Are you now saying you do not commit sin? If your answer is no, then everything the apostle John said about committing sin applies to you.
It seems some are dancing around trying to say they have no sin, for fear that if they admit they sin that means they are condemned.
.
And to Condemn others. And as per usual it'd the trinity (Verna,HK and DK) who have no sin and attempt to heap condemnation on anyone who disagrees with them on the sin issue.
The good news is when condemnation comes your way it's water of a ducks back, because when you are rooted and Grounded in His love, there's no reason for anyone to feel or receive condemnation and no reason to condemn others, this is good news.
We are all sinners.....saved by grace. All! None of us have achieved perfection, no not one! When we are reigning with the most High, when we have cast off these corruptible bodies that we are in, then and ONLY then, can we say that we are perfect. Until then, and only then, we are yet sinners, saved by grace.
For me Betsey, I'm not, perfect that is. It's a daily struggle to STAY on track! Daily we must pray, daily we must ask forgiveness of our trespasses, as we forgive those that trespass against US. Remember that prayer we were taught as little children? Our Father, which Art in Heaven.........it hasn't changed. Same God, yesterday, today and always!!
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