After Death (abortion, Holy Spirit, Christ, Isaac)

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

That is our physical partner . . . our animal nature, Ironmaw. It is the one that gives us so much trouble as we develop because our soul is so weak at first (a mere "seed", then a "sprout" . . . etc.) while our physical partner is fully functional.

I understand what you are saying ... But if you can look in the eyes of a new born baby and not see the humanity, even in all its innocence ... Then i am left to wonder what you do see. If someone thinks a new born baby (or a baby still in the womb) is any less human than they are, then i am thinking they are the ones who are less than human.

[DaniMae1]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

An unborn baby is a human being!

No it's not Verna! It is a dog! Or a hamster or something! Of course you realize I'm jesting.

[DaniMae1]

Originally Posted by revrandy

I wonder if they have any empirical proof to back this up or if this is just their speculation.

Originally Posted by Mike555

The diagram displays exactly what the Bible teaches.

The Bible "teaches" all kinds of different things on the subject! And since when is the Bible proof of anything?! The only thing it proves is that god wasn't able to get his message across in any coherrent fashion.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Here's a little diagram of where believers and unbelievers end up after death.

After Death (Visual) : Country Bible Church - Brenham, TX

In their chart they have the tribulation believers going to heaven.

But the Bible is clear that when Christ comes back He takes out of the kingdom all the bad Jews and the good ones are left in the kingdom.

Also when Christ returns of the Jews He feet land on Mt. Zion and it is from there that the Jewish believers go with Christ into the kingdom on the earth.

This has nothing to do with believers of the nations as our allotment is in the heavens.

There is quite a bit more wrong with their chart but this should do for now.

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Yes. God knew the names of everyone before they existed. But before they existed they weren't human. Because they didn't exist. The omniscience of God knows everything, both actual-what will be, and potential-what might have been.

The biological processes that occur in the womb construct the house into which God places the soul at the point of birth. When the soul is placed into the body, then there is a resident in the house. Then there is human life. Until then, it is simply biological life only.

You put way too much stock in this human carcass you're living in....our souls were with God before we were placed in this sick carnal flesh. You should be more interested in becoming ONE with God, while in this human carcass, than what "MAN MADE" doctrine you're following...especially concerning "MAN MADE" descriptions about what will happen after death, WHICH ARE NOTHING BUT PURE SPECULATION ON THE PART OF MAN. We are here in this human carcass for a purpose...to become ONE with God...this is what Jesus came to teach us...did you miss that?

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

In their chart they have the tribulation believers going to heaven.

But the Bible is clear that when Christ comes back He takes out of the kingdom all the bad Jews and the good ones are left in the kingdom.

Also when Christ returns of the Jews He feet land on Mt. Zion and it is from there that the Jewish believers go with Christ into the kingdom on the earth.

This has nothing to do with believers of the nations as our allotment is in the heavens.

There is quite a bit more wrong with their chart but this should do for now.

Many believers are martyred during the tribulation. These go to heaven. They will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation and will go into the kingdom with the tribulational saints were survived until the end of the tribulation.

The diagram is completely accurate.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Many believers are martyred during the tribulation. These go to heaven. They will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation and will go into the kingdom with the tribulational saints were survived until the end of the tribulation.

The diagram is completely accurate.

No one goes to heaven when they die. The only time a Jewish believer meets the Lord is when the Lord sets foot on Mt. Zion.

The only time a believer of the nations meets the Lord is when all the dead come out of their graves and meet the believers living at that time who are changed and TOGETHER they meet the Lord in the air.

Without resurrection our faith is in vain.

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Many believers are martyred during the tribulation. These go to heaven. They will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation and will go into the kingdom with the tribulational saints were survived until the end of the tribulation.

The diagram is completely accurate.

But what about the line from unbelief to belief? I think it's backwards... the lines should start in the lake of fire and go up to Heaven.. thus showing that all believers were once unbelievers. Also, how did the OT "believers" believe in Christ when he wasn't alive yet?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

I understand what you are saying ... But if you can look in the eyes of a new born baby and not see the humanity, even in all its innocence ... Then i am left to wonder what you do see. If someone thinks a new born baby (or a baby still in the womb) is any less human than they are, then i am thinking they are the ones who are less than human.

We do not disagree about that, Ironmaw. Mike is definitely wrong about it NOT being human . . . of course it is human . . . but its eternal soul is not present till birth, IMO.

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

No one goes to heaven when they die. The only time a Jewish believer meets the Lord is when the Lord sets foot on Mt. Zion.

The only time a believer of the nations meets the Lord is when all the dead come out of their graves and meet the believers living at that time who are changed and TOGETHER they meet the Lord in the air.

Without resurrection our faith is in vain.

Absent from the body and at home with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8

The heretical belief of soul sleep contradicts the Scriptures, and shows the apostasy of the one who so believes.