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1 Corinthians 15:35 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
As touching the resurrection -- God is the God of the living. Were it not for the resurrection, God could not have said "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob..."
Resurrection always refers to the body. Not the soul. This is not debatable. The soul of the believer goes into the presence of God at death.
Concernng 1 Cor. 15:35 I will simply refer you to this link to look at the commentary.
Regarding Matt. 22:31-32, refer back to the passage that Jesus is quoting. Exodus 3:6.
Exodus 3:6 This is Jesus Christ appearing as the burning bush, talking to Moses. 6) ''He said also, ''I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.'' Now, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were physically dead when Christ said this to Moses. But He is speaking in the present tense. I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They were in Paradise, the compartment of Hades where Old Testament believers went when they died.
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-04-2009 at 11:55 PM..
No, I didn't miss the point. My point is that while the resurrection of their bodies is still future, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive in Heaven right now. God is the God of the living.
1. Yes, God is the God of the living. That's why there must be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That's why Jesus said "As touching the resurrection..."
2. Your point ignores the whole point of the passage: Jesus refuting the Sadducees' belief in no resurrection.
So explain how Jesus proved there is a resurrection to the Sadducees from the scriptures He quoted.
Resurrection always refers to the body. Not the soul. This is not debatable.
It is debatable. I just quoted a scripture that shows the dead are raised and come WITH a body. I also quoted scripture showing that souls die.
This scripture says "thus (in this manner) we shall always be with the Lord" referring to the resurrection.
1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
If we were already with the Lord for thousands of years starting at death, that would be the "thus shall we be always with the Lord"
It is debatable. I just quoted a scripture that shows the dead are raised and come WITH a body. I also quoted scripture showing that souls die.
This scripture says "thus (in this manner) we shall always be with the Lord" referring to the resurrection.
1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
If we were already with the Lord for thousands of years starting at death, that would be the "thus shall we be always with the Lord"
I made an addition to post #31.
And no, souls do not die. You completely ignore the passages, including those that Christ Himself spoke, that say that souls do not die.
And you might want to read my thread on the meaning of apollumi-destroy.
Mike, your addition does not prove your point. Jesus clarified those verses by saying "as touching the resurrection..." God spoke in the present, even though they were dead, because God knew they would be made alive again. In a similar fashion, God told Abraham that God had made him the father of many nations (present tense) before God had done so. God calls those things which are not yet as though they were, because God knows the end from the beginning.
Back to my point.
Do you not see that the verses you keep quoting were used by Jesus to refute the Sadducees belief in no resurrection? Now try to explain how Jesus refuted them in the light of your belief that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were already alive and with God without any resurrection.
Mike, your addition does not prove your point. Jesus clarified those verses by saying "as touching the resurrection..." God spoke in the present, even though they were dead, because God knew they would be made alive again. In a similar fashion, God told Abraham that God had made him the father of many nations (present tense) before God had done so. God calls those things which are not yet as though they were, because God knows the end from the beginning.
Back to my point.
Do you not see that the verses you keep quoting were used by Jesus to refute the Sadducees belief in no resurrection? Now try to explain how Jesus refuted them in the light of your belief that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were already alive and with God without any resurrection.
You have All the scriptures that I provided on my post to study and come to understand. You seem to be one who is not interested in the truth, therefore, I simply refer you to Matthew 7:6.
Matthew 10:28 The words of Jesus Christ Himself speaking of Himself as the future Judge. ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul;but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
That's right, there is a body and soul. The soul is the sensations of the body.
Also, I notice you have quoted the above verse before to prove God is a liar when He said He will save all mankind (1 Tim.2:4-6) and is the Saviour of all mankind (1 Tim.4:10). However, the word "destroy" means to loose from a whole situation. Christ said Himself He "came to seek and to save the destroyed sheep of the house of Israel." The word "lost" as in "lost sheep" is the same Greek word for "destroyed." Nothing is so destroyed that it cannot be saved.
And with the lost i.e. destroyed sheep, destruction is a prerequisite to salvation!
Also, your translation is abysmal! It is not "in hell" but "in Gehenna." One will lose their sensations to enjoy the blessings of the kingdom if cast into Gehenna which is the trash dump to the south of Jerusalem.
What did He mean by "The soul that sins, it shall die"?
The soul is the part of man that fell when Adam "died". Essentially, we're dead until we receive new life from Him. So, when we are converted and become new creatures, are we not "resurrected" to new life - is water baptism not symbolic of what has occurred in our life?
Quote:
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins...Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved). And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. (Eph 2:1, 5-6)
We have a world of Christians looking for a resurrection in the natural, when God's work is spiritual.
That's right, there is a body and soul. The soul is the sensations of the body.
The above assertion that the soul is the sensations of the body, forces the following rendering of Matthew 10:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the sensations of the body, but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both the sensations of the body and the body in hell.
As the rational and discerning reader will immediately notice, the above is an absurdity to be sure. Matthew 10:28 are the very words of Jesus Christ Himself. ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul, but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both the soul and the body in hell.
Jesus Christ Himself confirms that the soul and the body are separate and distinct from each other, and that the soul lives after the body dies.
Those who choose to adhere to the false doctrine of soul-sleep are forced to resort to claims such as that which was made above.
Quote:
Also, I notice you have quoted the above verse before to prove God is a liar when He said He will save all mankind (1 Tim.2:4-6) and is the Saviour of all mankind (1 Tim.4:10). However, the word "destroy" means to loose from a whole situation. Christ said Himself He "came to seek and to save the destroyed sheep of the house of Israel." The word "lost" as in "lost sheep" is the same Greek word for "destroyed." Nothing is so destroyed that it cannot be saved.
And with the lost i.e. destroyed sheep, destruction is a prerequisite to salvation!
Those who promote universalism must deny and ignore the passages of the word of God that plainly contradict their teachings. And they must further twist and distort and redefine other Biblical passages.
Passages such as the aforementioned Matthew 28:10 must be completely ignored. The very words of Christ Himself again confirm that it He who as the righteous Judge will consign to the eternal lake of fire, those who do not believe in Him.
Quote:
Also, your translation is abysmal! It is not "in hell" but "in Gehenna." One will lose their sensations to enjoy the blessings of the kingdom if cast into Gehenna which is the trash dump to the south of Jerusalem.
Better get a better translation.
The word 'hell' is the English term which is used for Hades. But it is actually better suited as the word for the lake of fire. Regardless, it is an adequate term which describes the eternal place of suffering that unbelievers will spend eternity.
Those who promote universalism must deny and ignore the passages of the word of God that plainly contradict their teachings. And they must further twist and distort and redefine other Biblical passages.
Passages such as the aforementioned Matthew 28:10 must be completely ignored. The very words of Christ Himself again confirm that it He who as the righteous Judge will consign to the eternal lake of fire, those who do not believe in Him.
There's a lot of ignoring necessary for the ET camp to remain viable, as well.
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