Here is What the Word Apolumi--Destroy; Means (purification, prayer, sin)

[sciotamicks]

Originally Posted by katjonjj

So then Jesus will take them all to a beautiful valley for their death? What do you think Gehenna was then? You think it is the perpetual fire of burning Garbage.. but I think Jesus referred it being more horrible to be sacrificed to a false god... But you can believe what you want.. even if the Lord himself showed you your error.. you probably wouldn't believe him...

Gehenna was an allegory...a synonym of where wicked souls go.

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by Mike555

So in other words, you want everyone to think that Jesus Christ is saying that God is going to destroy souls in the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. You do realize how ridiculous that is don't you? Here. I will give the Youngs Literal Translation.

Matt. 10:28 And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

NASV Matt. 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Greek word geenE- Gehenna, is translated as hell by most translations. It is the Lake of fire that is being referred to.

Now. try to reason this out. If God was using the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem to kill both body and soul, then man would be able to use the very same garbage dump to kill both body and soul. But Jesus just said that man can't kill the soul. Only the body.

I'll give you the, not a translation, but a transliteration of the Greek for Mathew 10:28.

Kai-And / mE-no/ pHOBeTHeTE-bE Being afraid/ apo-From/ ton-the/

apokteinonton-one from killing/ to-the/ sOma-body/ tEn-the/ de-yet/

psuchEn-soul/ mE-no/ dunamenOn-of being able/ apokteinai-to kill/

phobEthEte-be being afraid/ de-yet/ mallon-rather/ ton-the/

dunamenon-one being able/ kai-and/ psuchEn-soul/ kai-and/ sOma-body/

apoleasi-to destroy/ en-in/ geenE-Gehenna.


Now, do you understand that Jesus Christ is not saying that He is going to use the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem to destroy the souls of unbelievers, but that those souls are going to be destroyed-not cessation of existence, but brought to a state of utter ruin- in geenE-Gehenna-limne pur-the lake of fire?



It is not the works of the devil that are the issue here, the issue is the rejection by the unbeliever, of the work of Christ on the Cross.

You said ...

Now, do you understand that Jesus Christ is not saying that He is going to use the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem to destroy the souls of unbelievers, but that those souls are going to be destroyed-not cessation of existence, but brought to a state of utter ruin- in geenE-Gehenna-limne pur-the lake of fire?

My answer is no ... Of course i don't see that because that is not what he was talking about. That is pagan mythology which you are mistaking Christ for saying. I understand why you believe that to be true, as you are programmed by false doctrine to see eternal damnation so that you are unable and unwilling to see the truth of much of scripture.

In fact Christ, speaking to Hebrews, was here warning of the judgment which was to come in ad 70 if Israel rejected him. The destruction of Israel in ad 70 and the ensuing diaspora were a judgment on Israel from God. The killing of the Hebrews who were not able to flee before Jerusalem was finally overrun by the Roman armies and their corpses being thrown into the fires of Gehenna were what Christ was referring to. The vally of Hinnom was a place where in ancient times people sacrificed their children to Molech by burning them alive, so whenever Criminals were kill they were killed in Gehenna and their bodies were disposed of there instead f being buried, as a symbol of them being separated from God. The Hebrews to whom Christ was speaking new exactly what he was talking about, and it was not some pagan myth of the after life or even the lake of fire, which was only prophesied of many years later when John wrote the book of revelations on Patmos. After the destruction of the temple and the conquering of Jerusalem the Hebrews were quite literally destroyed as a nation. And thousands of people who were in the city at the time of the destruction were quite literally killed and thrown into the flames of Gehenna and their souls were quite literally destroyed in the process. However, God will resurrect them in the future and will purify them along with all unbelievers and wicked "Christians" by fire. Count on it ...

The works of the devil are absolutely the issue behind all sin and its consequences which is separation from God and death. And Christ came for the very purpose of destroying the works of the devil.


1Jo 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


All commit sin, and therefore are all are of the devil, and by Christ all will be saved from this mortal condition of bondage to corruption. He did not come to destroy peoples lives, but to save them. You just cant seem to get that through your head.

Luk 9:56
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

Gehenna was an allegory...a synonym of where wicked souls go.

Gehenna was used as an allegory once in the bible by james ... An allegory of the tongue ...


Do you realize that Gehenna is not found anywhere else in the bible and was never used even once by the apostles in their epistles? James only used the word once, and as i said above it was as an allegory of the human tongue. If Gehenna was an allegory of where wicked souls go, don't you think that it would have been mentioned at least once by the apostles in their letters or when they were speaking to unbelievers as we see in the book of acts? Also dont you think Christ would have used the word Gehenna when telling the parable of Lazarus and the rich man instead of Hades? Think about it ...

[trettep]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Since you don't even believe in the lake of fire, it is not to be expected that you could possibly comprehend the simple statement of Jesus in Matthew 10:28 that God destroys both soul and body in gehenna. To you that has to mean the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. You have consistantly shown that you are incapable of any understanding of spiritual matters.

Mike Jesus said two swords are ENOUGH, why was that?

[sciotamicks]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

Do you realize that Gehenna is not found anywhere else in the bible and was never used even once by the apostles in their epistles? James only used the word once, and as i said above it was as an allegory of the human tongue. If Gehenna was an allegory of where wicked souls go, don't you think that it would have been mentioned at least once by the apostles in their letters or when they were speaking to unbelievers as we see in the book of acts? Also dont you think Christ would have used the word Gehenna when telling the parable of Lazarus and the rich man instead of Hades? Think about it ...

The event was an allegory...not the place. Christ used Gehenna most likely because He was close to it when He was giving the parable.

Hermeneutics Brother.....

Also..regarding the story of Lazarus and the Beggar....Hades, according to my view, has been emptied out. It has been thrown into the lake of fire...a place...not a soul...burning along with Death, the Devil, False Prophet and the Beast. Hades is no more, and the story Christ was giving at the time, still had Hades in existence. So no, nothing is in Hades now, all there is, is Heaven...and not Heaven...separate, and "purified" from their sins in the acknowledgement of who is, from the Lord.

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

Mike,

Do you believe in annihilation?
The complete eradication of the wicked soul?
Thanks in advance.

No. The destruction of the soul is: 'Perish (622) apollumi from apo=away from or wholly + olthros= state of utter ruin<>ollumi=to destroy<>root of apollyon (destroyer) means to destroy utterly but not caused to cease to exist.

Apollumi as it relates to man, is not the loss of being per se, but is the loss of well-being. It means to ruin so that the person (or thing) ruined can no longer serve the use for which he (it) was designed. To render useless. The gospel promises ever lasting life for the one who believes. The failure to possess this life will result in utter ruin and eternal uselessness (but not a cessation of existence.)

Apollumi then has the basic meaning of describing that which is ruined and is no longer usable for its intended purpose.

Apollumi is the term Jesus used to speak of those who are thrown into hell (Matt. 10:28): As He makes clear else where, hell is not a place or state of nothingless or unconscious existence, as is the Hindu Nirvana but is the place of everlasting torment, the place of eternal death, where there will be ''weeping and gnashing of teeth'' (Mt 13:42,50)

Romans 2:9-12 Commentary

The soul is immortal and cannot be destroyed in the sense of cessation of existence. The Second death is eternal separation from God in the lake of fire, in a state of utter ruin and uselessness, and hopelessness. And probably not a whole heck of a lot of fun.

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

The event was an allegory...not the place. Christ used Gehenna most likely because He was close to it when He was giving the parable.

Hermeneutics Brother.....

Also..regarding the story of Lazarus and the Beggar....Hades, according to my view, has been emptied out. It has been thrown into the lake of fire...a place...not a soul...burning along with Death, the Devil, False Prophet and the Beast. Hades is no more, and the story Christ was giving at the time, still had Hades in existence. So no, nothing is in Hades now, all there is, is Heaven...and not Heaven...separate, and "purified" from their sins in the acknowledgement of who is, from the Lord.

But the place signified the worship of idols and burning of humans as sacrifices before it became a garbage dump.. so which allegorical use is Jesus using.. that of a garbage dump or that of a sacrifice to a false god with the children of Israel?

[Ironmaw1776]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

The event was an allegory...not the place. Christ used Gehenna most likely because He was close to it when He was giving the parable.

Hermeneutics Brother.....

Also..regarding the story of Lazarus and the Beggar....Hades, according to my view, has been emptied out. It has been thrown into the lake of fire...a place...not a soul...burning along with Death, the Devil, False Prophet and the Beast. Hades is no more, and the story Christ was giving at the time, still had Hades in existence. So no, nothing is in Hades now, all there is, is Heaven...and not Heaven...separate, and "purified" from their sins in the acknowledgement of who is, from the Lord.

This is something i will never be able to understand. If the lake of fire is a literal place, then how can death and Hades be cast into it? Also, you say that there is heaven, and "not heaven" now ... And people who go to "not heaven" or the lake of fire, are eternally separated from God. Then how can it ever be said that God is all in all(1Cr 15:28), when most of his creation is eternally separated from him? That is a contradiction ...

Also, the bible says this ...

Rev 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


But you guys are saying that tears and death and sorrow and crying and pain will exist for ever, and most of Gods creation will always be experiencing these thing for all eternity.

More contradictions.

[sciotamicks]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

If the lake of fire is a literal place, then how can death and Hades be cast into it?

Are you going to try and understand all the mysteries of God?
Read Job.

Also, you say that there is heaven, and "not heaven" now ... And people who go to "not heaven" or the lake of fire, are eternally separated from God. Then how can it ever be said that God is all in all(1Cr 15:28), when most of his creation is eternally separated from him? That is a contradiction ..

Your take on "all in all" is entirely different from mine.
My take: Because of Christ, mankind, those who are regenerated by the election of grace and brought into the faith, are "all in all"...Jew and Gentile...if you want to get hermeneutically sound regarding the subject.
This is called covenantal language.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

But you guys are saying that tears and death and sorrow and crying and pain will exist for ever, and most of Gods creation will always be experiencing these thing for all eternity.

More contradictions.

This is a past event involving the typological pattern of the covenant, The Temple in Jerusalem and the Jewish Polity, the representation for God, were destroyed, which was replaced by the church and the "incorruptible" bodies, individual, and the Corporate body of the church and its destination point...Rev 22...the River of Life...Jesus...the tabernacle..the Lamb and God in it, all in all. This is all covered in the Corinthian epistles, stuff that UR takes entirely out of context throughout, and therefore, stumbles and falls flat on the ground. The Tabernacle in Heaven and the covenant between us and God, is the interpretation of being "all in all"...not some quasi pseudo future redemption of every soul that ever lived that denied Christ in their corruptible lives. That is preposterous and a complete reorganization of the purpose to the cross and the entire Abrahamic covenant.

It is a false interpretation of the scripture and it needs to be corrected.
Not that I am saying I will, but the church in general will eventually fade it right out, as it did over a thousand years ago, however this time it's Sola Scriptura.
I will start here.

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776

You said ...
My answer is no ... Of course i don't see that because that is not what he was talking about. That is pagan mythology which you are mistaking Christ for saying. I understand why you believe that to be true, as you are programmed by false doctrine to see eternal damnation so that you are unable and unwilling to see the truth of much of scripture.

In fact Christ, speaking to Hebrews, was here warning of the judgment which was to come in ad 70 if Israel rejected him. The destruction of Israel in ad 70 and the ensuing diaspora were a judgment on Israel from God. The killing of the Hebrews who were not able to flee before Jerusalem was finally overrun by the Roman armies and their corpses being thrown into the fires of Gehenna were what Christ was referring to. The vally of Hinnom was a place where in ancient times people sacrificed their children to Molech by burning them alive, so whenever Criminals were kill they were killed in Gehenna and their bodies were disposed of there instead f being buried, as a symbol of them being separated from God. The Hebrews to whom Christ was speaking new exactly what he was talking about, and it was not some pagan myth of the after life or even the lake of fire, which was only prophesied of many years later when John wrote the book of revelations on Patmos. After the destruction of the temple and the conquering of Jerusalem the Hebrews were quite literally destroyed as a nation. And thousands of people who were in the city at the time of the destruction were quite literally killed and thrown into the flames of Gehenna and their souls were quite literally destroyed in the process. However, God will resurrect them in the future and will purify them along with all unbelievers and wicked "Christians" by fire. Count on it ...

The word geenne-Gehenna is used in Matt 5:22; 5:29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33 Luke 12:5; Mark 9:43,45,47.

quote
Matthew 5:22) Greek geenna equals Gehenna, the place in the Valley of Hinnom where, anciently, human sacrifices were offered (2 Chr.33:6; Jer 7:31), and where the continuous burning of rubbish illustrated for the Jewish people unending judgment upon the wicked. The word occurs in Mt 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mk 9:43,45,47; Lk 12:5; Jas 3:6. In every instance except the last, the word was spoken by Jesus Christ in most solemn warning of the consequences of sin. He described it as the place where ''their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.'' (Mk.9:44ff.) The expression is identical in meaning with ''lake of fire'' (Rev. 19:20; 20:10,14,15).
Scofield Reference Edition Bible. P. 998,999.

Matthew 10:28 is a warning from Jesus about being cast into the lake of fire.The verse makes the distinction between the fact that man can only kill the body, whereas God can destroy both body and soul in the Lake of Fire.

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Bible uses the word Gehenna and applies it to the lake of fire.

The works of the devil are absolutely the issue behind all sin and its consequences which is separation from God and death. And Christ came for the very purpose of destroying the works of the devil.

In the Millennium, Satan will be locked up in the Abyss and unable to tempt anyone. But people will still have an old sin nature. Temptation will still come from the old sin nature and people will still sin. That's right. In the Millennium, in perfect enviriment with Satan locked away, peole will still sin. And there will still be some crime. And Christ will deal with it.

1Jo 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


All commit sin, and therefore are all are of the devil, and by Christ all will be saved from this mortal condition of bondage to corruption. He did not come to destroy peoples lives, but to save them. You just cant seem to get that through your head.

Luk 9:56
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Man can say no to God's offer of salvation. And most do.