Here is What the Word Apolumi--Destroy; Means (preach, scriptures, Moses)

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by trettep

Almost2L8, look up the Greek word for LOST in the following verse:

Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Then you can realize that what Mike is saying is contradicted. After all if the those that are destroyed (APOLLUMI) are never going to be saved then why would Jesus come to save them? See Mike doesn't get how this verse contradicts what he says.

There is no contradition.
He came because he so loved the world.....everybody's sin was forgiven.
However, not everyone believes that. The result is damnation..why?

"And without faith it is impossible to please God" Hebrews 11:6
__________________________________________________ ______

This fact doesn't change merely because of death. All the cleverly made up scenerios don't change that fact... Why?:
without faith it is impossible to please God.
___________________________________________

"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed." Romans 2:5.
Why?

without faith it is impossible to please God.
_________________________________________________


Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 3:36
Why?
"without faith it is impossible to please God."
__________________________________________________ _

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient Ephesians 5:6
Why?
"without faith it is impossible to please God."
__________________________________________________ ________

They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! Revelation 6:16

As Jesus (the Lamb of God) warned:

Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28


Why does Jesus destroy both body and soul of the unbeliever....

"without faith it is impossible to please God."

_______________________________________________

That is the answer to why God holds accountable unbelief and not all will be saved:

"without faith it is impossible to please God."

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

There is no contradition.
He came because he so loved the world.....everybody's sin was forgiven.
However, not everyone believes that. The result is damnation..why?

"And without faith it is impossible to please God" Hebrews 11:6
__________________________________________________ ______

This fact doesn't change merely because of death. All the cleverly made up scenerios don't change that fact... Why?:
without faith it is impossible to please God.
___________________________________________

"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed." Romans 2:5.
Why?

without faith it is impossible to please God.
_________________________________________________


Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 3:36
Why?
"without faith it is impossible to please God."
__________________________________________________ _

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient Ephesians 5:6
Why?
"without faith it is impossible to please God."
__________________________________________________ ________

They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! Revelation 6:16

As Jesus (the Lamb of God) warned:

Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28


Why does Jesus destroy both body and soul of the unbeliever....

"without faith it is impossible to please God."

_______________________________________________

That is the answer to why God holds accountable unbelief and not all will be saved:

"without faith it is impossible to please God."

Good post twin.spin

I tried to rep you, but it wouldn't let me.

[Thy Kingdom Come]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

That is the answer to why God holds accountable unbelief and not all will be saved:

"without faith it is impossible to please God."

Yes, God holds accountable unbelief. But none of the verses you quoted says anything about God not saving all.

• Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all

Unbelief = without faith = not pleasing to God

• Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Enemy of the gospel = without faith = not pleasing to God

God's solution the man's faithlessness is both wrath (judgment, locking man up in His own unbelief) and mercy (upon true repentance). You only see the wrath & judgment part.

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

There is no contradition.
He came because he so loved the world.....everybody's sin was forgiven.
However, not everyone believes that. The result is damnation..why?

You are saying that Jesus sacrifice means that everyone's sin is forgiven... yet you have to believe or you get damnation? So there is not a punishment for sin.. there is a punishment for not believing.
Interesting..but do you truly believe that?

Another thing I see is that in the verses you quote below.. they talk about God, what pleases him, and God's wrath.. where does that translate to damnation in the bible?

"And without faith it is impossible to please God" Hebrews 11:6
__________________________________________________ ______

This fact doesn't change merely because of death. All the cleverly made up scenerios don't change that fact... Why?:
without faith it is impossible to please God.

Romans 3:23-24 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

ALL have sinned
ALL fall short of the glory of God
ALL are justified freely by his grace
It is impossible to please God without faith... faith in what? Faith that ALL have sinned, ALL fall short, and ALL are justified?

___________________________________________

"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed." Romans 2:5.
Why?

without faith it is impossible to please God.
_________________________________________________

God's wrath.. what is that exactly? I think you'll notice it's usually wine or fire/brimstone...That's another topic. BUT the point is: how do you read "God's Wrath" and see damnation?

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 3:36
Why?
"without faith it is impossible to please God."
__________________________________________________ _

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient Ephesians 5:6
Why?
"without faith it is impossible to please God."
__________________________________________________ ________

They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! Revelation 6:16

What do you suppose that means that the wrath of God is referred to as wine?

As Jesus (the Lamb of God) warned:

Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28


Why does Jesus destroy both body and soul of the unbeliever....

"without faith it is impossible to please God."

_______________________________________________

That is the answer to why God holds accountable unbelief and not all will be saved:

"without faith it is impossible to please God."

Yeah... seems fair. God holds your sins in unforgiveness until you believe.. yet all sins are forgiven?

[svenM]

apollumi has several meanings:

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon, ἀπόλλυμι

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...3Da)po%2Fllumi

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by trettep

Don't be fooled by what Mike is saying here. He is twisting the scriptures. What is to perish is the OLD Man in us. It is to be destroyed. How else could this be possible:

Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost ('APOLLUMI' )

Notice that Jesus is going to save those whom are destroyed.

I keep coming behind Mike and showing him how he is being refuted by scripture but he will continue only to show you what he wants you to see the way he wants you to see it.

The only person twisting scripture here is you. People don't be fooled by what trettep comes behind Mike and says....it's not what the Bible teaches.

Yes Jesus came to "seek" and to "save"......how in the world do you derive from this that that means EVERYONE will be saved? The Bible makes it clear and you'd have to be living under a rock to not notice how Jesus is rejected in today's world. Again, let's quote scripture to show how Jesus MUST BE ACCEPTED in order for someone to be "saved" from eternal hellfire:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 7:38
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him."

I mean, good heavens....how clear can it be?

[Latte'Chic]

Amen....Ilene & Twin.spin!!! Excellent post!

The word of God stands on it's own! Just read it, receive it, believe it!
Nothing difficult to understand....

Maybe that is why Jesus said

Matt. 18:2-4
Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

The only person twisting scripture here is you. People don't be fooled by what trettep comes behind Mike and says....it's not what the Bible teaches.

Yes Jesus came to "seek" and to "save"......how in the world do you derive from this that that means EVERYONE will be saved? The Bible makes it clear and you'd have to be living under a rock to not notice how Jesus is rejected in today's world. Again, let's quote scripture to show how Jesus MUST BE ACCEPTED in order for someone to be "saved" from eternal hellfire:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 7:38
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him."

I mean, good heavens....how clear can it be?

Originally Posted by twin.spin
There is no contradition.
He came because he so loved the world.....everybody's sin was forgiven.
However, not everyone believes that. The result is damnation..why?

"And without faith it is impossible to please God" Hebrews 11:6
__________________________________________________ ______

This fact doesn't change merely because of death. All the cleverly made up scenerios don't change that fact... Why?:
without faith it is impossible to please God.
___________________________________________

"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed." Romans 2:5.
Why?

without faith it is impossible to please God.
_________________________________________________


Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 3:36
Why?
"without faith it is impossible to please God."
__________________________________________________ _

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient Ephesians 5:6
Why?
"without faith it is impossible to please God."
__________________________________________________ ________

They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! Revelation 6:16

As Jesus (the Lamb of God) warned:

Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28


Why does Jesus destroy both body and soul of the unbeliever....

"without faith it is impossible to please God."

_______________________________________________

That is the answer to why God holds accountable unbelief and not all will be saved:

"without faith it is impossible to please God."

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

The only person twisting scripture here is you. People don't be fooled by what trettep comes behind Mike and says....it's not what the Bible teaches.

Yes Jesus came to "seek" and to "save"......how in the world do you derive from this that that means EVERYONE will be saved? The Bible makes it clear and you'd have to be living under a rock to not notice how Jesus is rejected in today's world. Again, let's quote scripture to show how Jesus MUST BE ACCEPTED in order for someone to be "saved" from eternal hellfire:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 7:38
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him."

I mean, good heavens....how clear can it be?

Its very clear, but the scripture doesn't say you "must accept Christ". It says you must "believe in Him". Also, please notice, none of these scriptures say anything about "being saved from eternal hellfire" either.

And don't you think everyone will believe when they are bowing and confessing His name and swearing allegiance to Him? Surely you must believe in what He did before you can swear allegiance to Him.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

The only person twisting scripture here is you. People don't be fooled by what trettep comes behind Mike and says....it's not what the Bible teaches.

Yes Jesus came to "seek" and to "save"......how in the world do you derive from this that that means EVERYONE will be saved? The Bible makes it clear and you'd have to be living under a rock to not notice how Jesus is rejected in today's world. Again, let's quote scripture to show how Jesus MUST BE ACCEPTED in order for someone to be "saved" from eternal hellfire:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 7:38
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him."

I mean, good heavens....how clear can it be?

How can I derive it? Because if God sent His Son to save the world then I BELIEVE IT. Anyone that doesn't think the world will be saved doesn't BELIEVE Him. He WILL NOT FAIL. See it is in the scriptures you say I'm twisting:

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

There you go Ilene Wright. I just showed you what the scriptures say. I'm telling you your going to be saved. No matter how evil someone is today, God has the greater persuasion. You cannot prevent God's persuasion over you. But Ilene, if you still don't believe that everyone will be saved and that only some will be then tell me what happens to the sinner who isn't saved.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by legoman

Yes amen trettep! This is one of the stronger proofs for UR I find.

Many will indeed be destroyed, but Jesus came to save those who have been destroyed! I don't think Jesus will fail... DO YOU?

No, I agree, He will NOT Fail. Amazing how others have no problem preaching that He will. They still have Jesus failing to eradicate sinners because they claim sinners will be in eternal torment. That obviously doesn't equate to the eradication of sin.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Sin is the work of the devil and yet these others here say that sinners will exist forever in torment. See the contradiction they preach.