Here is What the Word Apolumi--Destroy; Means (Sodom, Deuteronomy, salvation)

[legoman]

Originally Posted by trettep

No, I agree, He will NOT Fail. Amazing how others have no problem preaching that He will. They still have Jesus failing to eradicate sinners because they claim sinners will be in eternal torment. That obviously doesn't equate to the eradication of sin.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Sin is the work of the devil and yet these others here say that sinners will exist forever in torment. See the contradiction they preach.

What gets destroyed:

1 Cor 5:5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.

[Eusebius]

Jesus said "he who destroys his soul shall find it."

Looks like Mike's view is biased. There is nothing so destroyed it cannot be saved. As a matter of fact, destruction is a prerequisite to salvation as evidenced here:

Jesus said "I have come to seek and to save the lost (lit. destroyed) sheep of the house of Israel."
So destruction is necessary for Jesus to save the sheep.

[caucazhin]

well one things for sure their not going to be let into heaven unless weeping and gnashing of teeth has something to do with thanksgiving.
........Dahhhhhhhhh
" the universalist leads the universalist and they both fall in a pit "

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by caucazhin

well one things for sure their not going to be let into heaven unless weeping and gnashing of teeth has something to do with thanksgiving.
........Dahhhhhhhhh
" the universalist leads the universalist and they both fall in a pit "

The weeping and gnashing of teeth has to do with the Jews getting kicked out of the kingdom and missing out on its glories during the millennial reign of Christ on earth. The weeping and gnashing has nothing to do with thanksgiving.

The Eternal Tormentist leads the Eternal Tormentist and they both fall into a pit.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by caucazhin

well one things for sure their not going to be let into heaven unless weeping and gnashing of teeth has something to do with thanksgiving.
........Dahhhhhhhhh
" the universalist leads the universalist and they both fall in a pit "

Hey caucazhin, you believe that sinners will be eternally tormented?

[sciotamicks]

Listen folks,

The scripture is plain about who enters the kingdom and who doesn't. Many of you here I have come to know, and love, in light of your misunderstanding of the scripture IMO, is noble, yet against and contrary to the word of God.
Without Christ in our hearts we are doomed to be separate from Him IMI (in my interpretation)

I see alot of dancing around the scripture, and inserting the preconceived ideas into it, from all walk of interpretations. What is constant is God..unchanging, merciful and just.

We will all have to answer one day to all of this talk we talk.

However, apart from my views on Hell and Damnation.

God will save whoever He wants to save, regardless of whatever the reason, and it is none of our business to preach anything contrary to that. He is God...He is everything, and if He wants to redeem the sinners that reject Christ, it is of no consequence to any of us here. What we must worry about is ourselves, and our walk, and our works in Him. None other.

[caucazhin]

Eternally seperated........yes....
The torment is their seperation which they have ultimately brought on themselves by refusing God and His gracious offer of redemption.
And please dont think that I like the idea of anyone being seperated from God forever... I dont and neither does God.
But " Gods ways are not our ways "
And in the end who am I to question Him...
Job found that out the hard way didnt he ???
I am called to discern the truth the best I can with Gods help and I believe the scripture is very clear on the matter.
Its Gods program not mine and He doesnt need yours or my permission on how He wants to execute His justice, judgement or anything else for that matter...
It says you must be born again so how can someone whos not born again enter into Gods presence ??
God is going to force himself on them ???
Thats Calvinism.........
Think about the rich man and Lazarus who tried to repent after death and it was a no go..........
The rich man also died and was buried. In Hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' 'No, Father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

[trettep]

Originally Posted by sciotamicks

Listen folks,

The scripture is plain about who enters the kingdom and who doesn't. Many of you here I have come to know, and love, in light of your misunderstanding of the scripture IMO, is noble, yet against and contrary to the word of God.
Without Christ in our hearts we are doomed to be separate from Him IMI (in my interpretation)

I see alot of dancing around the scripture, and inserting the preconceived ideas into it, from all walk of interpretations. What is constant is God..unchanging, merciful and just.

We will all have to answer one day to all of this talk we talk.

However, apart from my views on Hell and Damnation.

God will save whoever He wants to save, regardless of whatever the reason, and it is none of our business to preach anything contrary to that. He is God...He is everything, and if He wants to redeem the sinners that reject Christ, it is of no consequence to any of us here. What we must worry about is ourselves, and our walk, and our works in Him. None other.

So you believe God FAILS to save those that can't be saved themselves?

[trettep]

Originally Posted by caucazhin

Eternally seperated........yes....
The torment is their seperation which they have ultimately brought on themselves by refusing God and His gracious offer of redemption.
And please dont think that I like the idea of anyone being seperated from God forever... I dont and neither does God.
But " Gods ways are not our ways "
And in the end who am I to question Him...
Job found that out the hard way didnt he ???
I am called to discern the truth the best I can with Gods help and I believe the scripture is very clear on the matter.
Its Gods program not mine and He doesnt need yours or my permission on how He wants to execute His justice, judgement or anything else for that matter...
It says you must be born again so how can someone whos not born again enter into Gods presence ??
God is going to force himself on them ???
Thats Calvinism.........
Think about the rich man and Lazarus who tried to repent after death and it was a no go..........
The rich man also died and was buried. In Hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' 'No, Father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

So are you saying the Rich man will be sinning for the rest of eternity or NOT sinning? Because if he is not sinning then that means he is righteous. So which is it?

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Jesus said "he who destroys his soul shall find it."

Looks like Mike's view is biased. There is nothing so destroyed it cannot be saved. As a matter of fact, destruction is a prerequisite to salvation as evidenced here:

Jesus said "I have come to seek and to save the lost (lit. destroyed) sheep of the house of Israel."
So destruction is necessary for Jesus to save the sheep.

Apollumi is the term that Jesus used to speak of those who are thrown into the lake of fire (Matt.10:28): As He makes clear elsewhere, the lake of fire is the place of everlasting torment, the place of eternal death-which means not a cessation of existence, but a state of ruin, and eternal uselessness. They are the words of Jesus Himself.


quote
1 Tim. 2:4 commentary: Who will have all men to be saved. The Scriptures uniformly represent it as the divine will that all men should come to life. But He does not will to save men irrespective of the conditions of salvation. They must, in order to be saved, come unto a knowledge of the truth. In other words, must hear, receive, and obey the Gospel.
unquote

Peoples New Testament Commentary