Here is What the Word Apolumi--Destroy; Means (Messiah, belief, Jesus Christ)

[Thy Kingdom Come]

Originally Posted by Mike555

It is Universalism that misrepresents and distorts the Word of God.

Ahh... in that case feel free to proceed with your misrepresentations of what we believe...

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by Mike555
It is Universalism that misrepresents and distorts the Word of God.

Sure. The Bible is very specific in telling us to "charge and teach these things" in 1 Tim.4:11. What thing must we charge and teach? Exactly this:

"God is the Saviour of all mankind especially of believers" and "God will have all mankind to be saved for . . . Christ ransomed all" (1 Tim.2:4-6; 4:10,11).

We are not supposed to be disobedient like you and charge and teach that "God will not save all mankind" nor are we to charge and teach that "God is not the saviour of all mankind, just believers."

Shame on you! Shame!

[trettep]

Originally Posted by Mike555

God's desire is that all men be saved. But He does not will to save men irrespective of the conditions of salvation. They must, in order to be saved, come unto a knowledge of the truth. In other words, they must hear, receive, and obey the Gospel.

The point is that God wills to save all men. Do you believe that His will shall be thwarted by mans will?

[firstborn888]

Originally Posted by Mike555

Gal. 1:6 ''I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7) which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

The 'other gospel' Paul spoke of is the one which touts the eternal lost-ness and misery of the majority of mankind and the failure of Jesus to be the "Savior of the world".

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by firstborn888

The 'other gospel' Paul spoke of is the one which touts the eternal lost-ness and misery of the majority of mankind and the failure of Jesus to be the "Savior of the world".

AMEN! and I think Mike has been proven wrong so much that it is silly to try to reason with him..

[.sparrow.]

Originally Posted by eusebius

sure. The bible is very specific in telling us to "charge and teach these things" in 1 tim.4:11. what thing must we charge and teach? Exactly this:

"god is the saviour of all mankind especially of believers" and "god will have all mankind to be saved for . . . Christ ransomed all" (1 tim.2:4-6; 4:10,11).

we are not supposed to be disobedient like you and charge and teach that "god will not save all mankind" nor are we to charge and teach that "god is not the saviour of all mankind, just believers."

shame on you! Shame!

yes! Exactly!

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

[/i]



appolumi is never spoken of those who enter the lake of fire.

Why do you think Gehenna is the lake of fire? Gehenna is a trash dump used to burn the offal of the city of Jerusalem during the millennium. The lake of fire is 1000 years later after the millennium ends. Try to learn some eschatology.

You have read my other posts and know full well that I know the difference between hades and the lake of fire, which is also known as Gehenna. The name of which is taken from that trash dump.

Also, since appolumi is spoken of the sheep of Israel who Jesus saved, this proves appolumi does not mean irreversably destroyed.

Try to learn something for once rather than remaining stuck in your quagmire of ignorance.

Also, Israel is not in the lake of fire. Those unbelievers who are in hades and headed for the lake of fire are irreversably destroyed-not cessation of existance but rather in a state of utter ruin and eternal uselessness-APOLLUMI.

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by trettep

The point is that God wills to save all men. Do you believe that His will shall be thwarted by mans will?

God designed and structured the whole plan of salvation in order to glorify Himself. And for that to happen, He had to give man free will. If He did not give man volition, He could not bring glory to Himself. There is no glory in forcing someone to be saved when that person has rejected the offer of salvation. But by giving man free will, so that a person has the choice to accept or reject Him, to hate or to love Him, God is glorified when a person of his own free will accepts the offer of salvation. And those that reject the offer of salvation are free to do so.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Mike555

God designed and structured the whole plan of salvation in order to glorify Himself. And for that to happen, He had to give man free will. If He did not give man volition, He could not bring glory to Himself. There is no glory in forcing someone to be saved when that person has rejected the offer of salvation. But by giving man free will, so that a person has the choice to accept or reject Him, to hate or to love Him, God is glorified when a person of his own free will accepts the offer of salvation. And those that reject the offer of salvation are free to do so.

Mike have you ever studied the Reformed view of "free will"? For example the works of John Calvin or Arthur Pink's Sovereignty of God? They suggest that man does not have free will and prove it scripturally. Man's will is only free in the sense that man does according to what his nature is. I don't agree with Calvinism, but I do believe they have the right view of God's sovereignty with respect to free will... namely that we don't have it.

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by legoman

Mike have you ever studied the Reformed view of "free will"? For example the works of John Calvin or Arthur Pink's Sovereignty of God? They suggest that man does not have free will and prove it scripturally. Man's will is only free in the sense that man does according to what his nature is. I don't agree with Calvinism, but I do believe they have the right view of God's sovereignty with respect to free will... namely that we don't have it.

I have just explained that God is glorified by giving man free will to accept or reject Him. And that He would not be glorified by forcing man to accept Him. Every single salvation passage tells you to make a choice to believe or not to believe. That is free will. But if you choose to believe that man does not have free will, you have the free will to believe that man does not have free will.