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Old 11-06-2009, 06:40 PM
 
32 posts, read 45,919 times
Reputation: 11

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Things can be not the same yet not contradictory. You are assuming that "many" in Greek has the exact same implications as it does in English.

If a tsunami kills a whole town we can say
1. everyone in the town died
2. multitudes died
3. 6,531 died

They are not the same but they are not contradictory either.

Even if you don't believe the scriptures are inspired by God, to believe that in Greek "many" contradicts "all" you have to believe that Paul forgot what he wrote seven verses ago here...
  • Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
  • Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous



God did not know that a child who reads the bible in english would not fully understand it because the child would not understand greek?


poor excuse, have it your way, all is all, and many means many.
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 9,673,226 times
Reputation: 17806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marks View Post
What do you mean Abraham was not a Christian? He trusted in the coming Messiah and waited for Him. As an Old Testament believer he is redeemed by Christ.

A good example of a "chosen" person would be someone like the Apostles or Paul--a person called of God, responds to God in repentance, is indwelt with the Spirit, and lives a life of faith and holiness.
Amen....Marks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou
For many are called, but few are chosen

Matthew 22:14, KJV Whos doing the calling for the choosing?

I thought Jesus died for the whole world, but if many are called than
Jesus could not have died for all people.For many are called, but few are chosen
Many are called to the wedding-feast, that is, to salvation, but few have the wedding-garment, the righteousness of Christ, the sanctification of the Spirit. Then let us examine ourselves whether we are in the faith, and seek to be approved by the King.


John 3:3-6
3. Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4. Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5. Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Act 2:37-39
37. Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38. Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39.For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Rom.10:9-10
9. That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:46 PM
 
32 posts, read 45,919 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Things can be not the same yet not contradictory. You are assuming that "many" in Greek has the exact same implications as it does in English.

If a tsunami kills a whole town we can say
1. everyone in the town died
2. multitudes died
3. 6,531 died

They are not the same but they are not contradictory either.

Even if you don't believe the scriptures are inspired by God, to believe that in Greek "many" contradicts "all" you have to believe that Paul forgot what he wrote seven verses ago here...
  • Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
  • Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous


you said:If a tsunami kills a whole town you can say: . everyone in the town died
2. multitudes died
3. 6,531 died


a whole town means everyone, many would mean many but not the whole town.


but I undertand you have to try n make this fit by any means nessary.
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:48 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,038 posts, read 26,252,942 times
Reputation: 16194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
For many are called, but few are chosen

Matthew 22:14, KJV



Whos doing the calling for the choosing?

I thought Jesus died for the whole world, but if many are called than
Jesus could not have died for all people.For many are called, but few are chosen
Christ did die for the world. But not everyone chooses to believe in Christ so that salvation may be applied to them.

The means by which God calls men is through the Gospel.

2 Thess. 2:14 ''And it was for this He called you through our Gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord.''

Now look at Romans 8:29 ''For whom He foreknew, (this is that part of His omniscience that applies to those that He knew would believe in Christ for salvation), He also predestined (only believers are predestined), and whom He predestined, these He also CALLED (through the Gospel) and whom He called, these He also justified (this takes place at the point of believing in Christ for salvation), and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ( The glorification of the believer occurs in three stages. 1. Positional sanctification-placed into union with Christ by means of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit-Gal 3:27) 2. Experiential sanctification-requires continuous decisions to learn and apply the word of God to your life, resulting in spiritual maturity-2 Peter 3:18.) 3. Ultimate sanctification-at the resurrection of the body.

Jesus Christ died for the sins of everyone. But only those who respond to God's call through the Gospel are chosen.


God places the responsibility on each individual to make the decision to believe in Christ so that the work of Christ on the Cross may be applied to him.

John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for UNLESS you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.''


Therefore;

Acts 16:31 ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.''
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:00 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,897,534 times
Reputation: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
a whole town means everyone, many would mean many but not the whole town. but I undertand you have to try n make this fit by any means nessary.
The scriputures were not written in English. You are attempting to apply nuances of English words to another language. Doesn't work that way.

If you want to know the nuances of "many" vs "all" in another language you look at how they are used in writing in that language. And as I already showed, the author of Romans who knew his language better than you or I used "all" and "many" interchangibly.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:56 PM
 
32 posts, read 45,919 times
Reputation: 11
Default what do I mean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marks View Post
What do you mean Abraham was not a Christian? He trusted in the coming Messiah and waited for Him. As an Old Testament believer he is redeemed by Christ.

A good example of a "chosen" person would be someone like the Apostles or Paul--a person called of God, responds to God in repentance, is indwelt with the Spirit, and lives a life of faith and holiness.

was Jesus a christian?

was Abramham a chrstian?

Abramham was not a christian.


you said:

He trusted in the coming Messiah and waited for Him.



If i am waiting for a bus, does that make me a bus because iam waitjing for it?

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Old 11-06-2009, 07:59 PM
 
32 posts, read 45,919 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Christ did die for the world. But not everyone chooses to believe in Christ so that salvation may be applied to them.

The means by which God calls men is through the Gospel.

2 Thess. 2:14 ''And it was for this He called you through our Gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord.''

Now look at Romans 8:29 ''For whom He foreknew, (this is that part of His omniscience that applies to those that He knew would believe in Christ for salvation), He also predestined (only believers are predestined), and whom He predestined, these He also CALLED (through the Gospel) and whom He called, these He also justified (this takes place at the point of believing in Christ for salvation), and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ( The glorification of the believer occurs in three stages. 1. Positional sanctification-placed into union with Christ by means of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit-Gal 3:27) 2. Experiential sanctification-requires continuous decisions to learn and apply the word of God to your life, resulting in spiritual maturity-2 Peter 3:18.) 3. Ultimate sanctification-at the resurrection of the body.

Jesus Christ died for the sins of everyone. But only those who respond to God's call through the Gospel are chosen.

God places the responsibility on each individual to make the decision to believe in Christ so that the work of Christ on the Cross may be applied to him.

John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for UNLESS you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.''

Therefore;

Acts 16:31 ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.''



you believe that Jesus knew all things, this would mean that he already knew before he died, that not everyone would believe in him, so he would not have died for erveryone but only for the people who would believe in him.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
1,962 posts, read 5,189,795 times
Reputation: 951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
was Jesus a christian?

was Abramham a chrstian?

Abramham was not a christian.


you said:

He trusted in the coming Messiah and waited for Him.



If i am waiting for a bus, does that make me a bus because iam waitjing for it?
I think you totally misunderstand this.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:29 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,038 posts, read 26,252,942 times
Reputation: 16194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
you believe that Jesus knew all things, this would mean that he already knew before he died, that not everyone would believe in him, so he would not have died for erveryone but only for the people who would believe in him.
No. By being judged for every sin of every person who would ever live, the issue of sin as a barrier between God and man was removed. The work of Christ on the Cross opened the door of savation for anyone who will walk through that door through faith in Him. It falls to each individual to make the choice to believe in Christ or not to believe in Him. That why the salvation passages are able to tell us:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that Whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (the command to believe) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''

Sin is not an issue in salvation. Attitude toward Christ is the issue.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:43 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,106,214 times
Reputation: 751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightuntoyou View Post
For many are called, but few are chosen

Matthew 22:14, KJV



Whos doing the calling for the choosing?

I thought Jesus died for the whole world, but if many are called than
Jesus could not have died for all people.For many are called, but few are chosen
Maybe God wants to torment people in fire for eternity.
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