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Don't agree....the bible says both...salvation is of God but our works are evidenced that we are saved. "faith without works is dead"
Works may be the evidence to man that someone has faith, but they do not save.
It is God that searches the heart, he does not need to see works of men to justify the works of His Son. Christ said:
Mat 7:20 Then surely from their fruits you shall know them.
Jas 2:17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself.
But how so?
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith out of my works.
Man needs to see works, or fruit, to make a human judgment about a person's faith and testimony. God does not.
Works may be the evidence to man that someone has faith, but they do not save.
It is God that searches the heart, he does not need to see works of men to justify the works of His Son. Christ said:
Mat 7:20 Then surely from their fruits you shall know them.
Jas 2:17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself.
But how so?
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith out of my works.
Man needs to see works, or fruit, to make a human judgment about a person's faith and testimony. God does not.
Heh...I lean more toward Calvinism in interpreting scripture but even I see verses in the bible that shows that our will is somehow responsible too.
How God's sovereignty and man's free will for salvation harmonizes? I have not a clue but the bible states it. We only can preach what we see....it's not our job to harmonize the two. It is beyond us right now.
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
I can't how can I argue scripture when interpreted correctly? but how do you explain (Roman 10:9-10)
9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,†and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
how about John 3:16....that whoever BELIEVES
These are not causes of salvation but rather responses to what is in the heart. The mouth confesses what is in the heart. Gospel faith, in the heart, comes from God:
Eph 2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you--of God the gift,
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no one may boast;
If faith is of ourselves, we can boast. Paul says we can not boast. Therefore Paul is speaking of faith as well as grace as being gifts.
John 3:16 speaks of present conditions, not what someone does in-order to be saved:
Joh 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
Faith is not the cause of salvation but the result and evidence of grace given to us by God.
These are not causes of salvation but rather responses to what is in the heart. The mouth confesses what is in the heart. Gospel faith, in the heart, comes from God:
what's in our heart? continuous evil is in our hearts. "we are children of the devil" "we are children of wrath" "all our deeds are sinful" we are all the same. If God saves then our heart responds because God calls out to us so what about the individuals who never respond to God?
How about The Law Offices of Swaggart & Haggard.........
How about, "Jimmy just loves to swaggart onto stage with that cocky air of his, and Ted is really looking haggard these days after getting caught with cocaine (among other "things").
God's will vs. our will with regards to salvation..
To me, John 6 is the best response for this.
When Jesus appeared on the other side of the sea, He responded that the crowd sought Him for food. He encourages them to work for the food which endures to eternal life (6:26-27).
The crowd asks, what they must do to work the works of God? (6:28)
Jesus responds that the work of God is believing on Jesus (whom God had sent). (6:29)
So any believing that man does originates with the Father FIRST before it involves our will. I think this runs counter to what MacArthur states.
Later Jesus stated that all that the Father gives Him will come to Him. (6:37)
Again, the Father does the giving FIRST before Jesus received the people.
Why can't you speak grace, mercy love and forgiveness towards the man regardless of what he's done , isn't that what Jesus not only said but did for you.
Like i said you are a legalist because you have sin on your brain .
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Grace, mercy, and love does apply to all who are in Christ.
However, I don't see what's wrong with what MacArthur said. He simply answered the questions addressed to him. Homosexuality is sin. Pastors must be above reproach to shepherd other people. Where's the problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
I am not sure of your point.
Drob4JC my point is God does not just love those who we think are in Christ, His mercy grace and love is extended to All regardless of whether we think they are in Christ or not, whether we consider they are righteous or unrighteous, just or unjust.
God's will vs. our will with regards to salvation..
To me, John 6 is the best response for this.
When Jesus appeared on the other side of the sea, He responded that the crowd sought Him for food. He encourages them to work for the food which endures to eternal life (6:26-27).
The crowd asks, what they must do to work the works of God? (6:28)
Jesus responds that the work of God is believing on Jesus (whom God had sent). (6:29)
So any believing that man does originates with the Father FIRST before it involves our will. I think this runs counter to what MacArthur states.
Later Jesus stated that all that the Father gives Him will come to Him. (6:37)
Again, the Father does the giving FIRST before Jesus received the people.
That I agree so you are preaching to the choir but scripture is clear we have to believe so what about the ones that don't believe. Did God come to them or not and if God did then why don't they believe? and if they don't believe then what makes us believers different from unbelievers?
what's in our heart? continuous evil is in our hearts. "we are children of the devil" "we are children of wrath" "all our deeds are sinful" we are all the same. If God saves then our heart responds because God calls out to us so what about the individuals who never respond to God?
For those who believe the gospel, the Spirit of God dwells in their heart. They are no longer the children of the devil, but have been adopted by God. They are no longer children of wrath but Children of God.
I know you know these things. So why try to harmonize things that should not be harmonized?
I believe that all will respond to God:
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable before God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of truth.
Those who have not yet responded, I don't have a time clock on, or know when they will, but I believe it will happen as scripture says, in it's own time:
1Ti 2:6 the One having given Himself a ransom on behalf of all, the testimony to be given in its own time,
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