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Old 11-19-2009, 12:38 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,580 posts, read 6,282,195 times
Reputation: 597

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
If she would just get on her knees and beg Jesus to come into her heart...because it's breaking mine...she is so smart, but that won't get her anywhere in the end.

Fall on Him...and you will broken Kat!
Kat just refuses to see what is there. To me it seems like she just doesn't want to accept that she is wrong. The scripture is clear.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,303 posts, read 6,404,049 times
Reputation: 427
Kat,

I have already done that...numerous times...so have others. I can be of no further help to you I believe...asking God to come into your heart is not enough...you must ask the one who mediated it in the flesh....God in the flesh...Jesus...that is the bridge.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Through Him....is the fullness of Godhead...and only through Him, can you and God be in complete communion. Try it...you will be knocked down. I passed out.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 11-19-2009 at 12:43 AM.. Reason: My typing skills are terrible
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,473,424 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
No it doesn't say Jesus God. Jesus is God.

Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. So, we see that the only person creating the heavens and the earth is God. In the Tanakh Elohim created.

Elohim is unigue to the Hebraic language and only occurs in the Hebrew language. The masculine plural does not mean gods, when referring the The One True God, since the name is use in singular verbs. How ever considering the Hashalush Hakadosh the form allows for the plurality.

John 1:3

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Now we see that all things were made, and nothing was made without Him.

col 1:16-17

For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Now we see again by Him all things were created in heaven and on earth. But as you see God created the heaven and the earth. So, if God created in the beginning in Genesis, and now we see Jeus created the heaven and the earth, then He was there before anything was created. Now the scripture says that Elohim created, and Jesus created. Jesus is God.

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness. God was talking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit within Himself. The us can't be referring to angels because we are not in their image.

In the OT there are accounts of people see God face to face, but then you see scripture saying that God the Father was never seen, even Jesus said that we have never seen the Father's form.

So, if no one has never seen the Father, who was Jacob wrestling with, who did Moses, well they were seeing Jesus, because noone has seen the Father.
First, we were talking about John 20:17 remember...

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Jesus states that they should tell them that Jesus is returning to HIS father and THEIR father.. Both Fathers are GOD.. HIS (Jesus') God and their God..

So that Jesus' God is their God. You state:
Quote:
No it doesn't say Jesus God. Jesus is God.
When clearly the verse in question says that Jesus' God is their God.. the one and same God who is also called FATHER... Jesus has a God and that is the same God that they have....The one and only True Almighty God!

How is it that you argue this when it is as plain as the nose on my face!
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:48 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,303 posts, read 6,404,049 times
Reputation: 427
Katonjj,

Please! Start here:

Jesus Christ is God Incarnate
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:53 AM
 
63,459 posts, read 39,713,126 times
Reputation: 7791
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You answered it yourself.....a few more steps...and you are there.
The phrase was "to cause to exist" . . . NOT "to exist." If you will resort to such deceptive misquoting and chicanery . . . who can believe anything you present?
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:54 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,580 posts, read 6,282,195 times
Reputation: 597
What I was referring to is this and how the person quoted the scripture and didn't provide what was there.

"I am ascending to your God" (John 20:17). This is not what the scripturing is saying. Jesus is their God, just as well as The Father being God, they are one.

For things to be plain you seem to not understand or don't want to see what is here.

Genesis 1:1 (Elohim)

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. So, we see that the only person creating the heavens and the earth is God. In the Tanakh Elohim created.

Elohim is unigue to the Hebraic language and only occurs in the Hebrew language. The masculine plural does not mean gods, when referring the The One True God, since the name is use in singular verbs. How ever considering the Hashalush Hakadosh the form allows for the plurality.

John 1:3 (Jesus)

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Now we see that all things were made, and nothing was made without Him.

col 1:16-17 (Jesus)

For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Now we see again by Him all things were created in heaven and on earth. But as you see God created the heaven and the earth. So, if God created in the beginning in Genesis, and now we see Jeus created the heaven and the earth, then He was there before anything was created. Now the scripture says that Elohim created, and Jesus created. Jesus is God.

Genesis 1:26 (Elohim)
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness. God was talking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit within Himself. The us can't be referring to angels because we are not in their image.

In the OT there are accounts of people see God face to face, but then you see scripture saying that God the Father was never seen, even Jesus said that we have never seen the Father's form.

So, if no one has never seen the Father, who was Jacob wrestling with, who did Moses, well they were seeing Jesus, because noone has seen the Father.

Now I will ask another question who created the heavens and the earth? I will wait on your answer. It is plain as the nose on your face unless you have blurry vision.

Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 11-19-2009 at 01:28 AM..
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,473,424 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
We know from scripture that there is one God. We also know from scripture that there are 3 persons that make up this Godhead. God the Son, God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. This is very evident from reading the bible. Even at the begining of the Bible God speaking of Himself says,Let Us" do such and such. He uses the plural pronoun to refer to Himself. "The spirit of God hovered over the waters. The spirit is separate but one with God. I really do not think there are many people who can understand this trinitarian truth about the nature of God but there are many many things in the bible that I just have to believe as a matter of faith not because I can understand them perfectly. Personally I struggled with many things about God and His word for many years until God gave me the power to live by faith and not by my own fallable human understanding about the things of God that were not clear to me.
There is nothing in scripture that suggests that God is three. There are other religions that give a significance to three gods but there is nothing in the bible that says there are three parts to God.. there is one God...

As for not being able to understand it.. well that is just a bunch of bull. Many humans can have faith in an unseen God but that they cannot understand God?

It is written: Proverbs 2: 5-6
then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
For the Lord gives wisdom,
and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.

Then you see that it is not hidden and God gives the understanding and knowledge freely.

Luke 8:17 For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

If we were not able to understand God then we could never truly know him.. and if we can never truly know him then we can never be in communion with him.

1 John 4:6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

How then is this trinity of gods so unknowable? Do you make God out to be a mystery when it plainly states that one can indeed know God?
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,473,424 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You people miss it completely don't you?.....Christ died....God came in the flesh and died for all of us yes, but for Israel especially, so that they...the covenant people...could re-marry Him and lose the baggage of being a harlot. To be made new.......to be made white...the bride.

This is theology 101...but you all miss it...why?

Because you believe Christ was just a man. The same mistake the Jewish Polity made.....Saul saw the truth...and he was very well versed in the Law...chosen Jew...to help Christ consummate the everlasting covenant...to the Gentiles.
Ok.. let me get a few things straight. So be patient with me and answer these questions:

Do you believe that Jesus was Christ and fully human as I am human?

Do you believe that Jesus was born of Spirit as God is Spirit?

Do you believe that Jesus took on the attributes of his mother Mary in that he was human and perhaps even looked liker her?

Once you have answered this I will know how to proceed and will then respond.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,473,424 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Kat,

I have already done that...numerous times...so have others. I can be of no further help to you I believe...asking God to come into your heart is not enough...you must ask the one who mediated it in the flesh....God in the flesh...Jesus...that is the bridge.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Through Him....is the fullness of Godhead...and only through Him, can you and God be in complete communion. Try it...you will be knocked down. I passed out.
Do you somehow misunderstand me? You claim that I am somehow in need of a savior because I do not believe that Jesus is God. I asked for scripture that states that I must believe that Jesus is God in order to be saved...

Why is it that you avoid this! You claim that Jesus is God and in order to be saved one must believe that Jesus is God... I asked for scripture to back up that claim yet you keep reverting back to trying to prove that Jesus is God... I did not ask that for you accused me of being less saved than you bevcause I deny that Jesus is God. Please show me my error and state sola scriptura that a belief in Jesus as God is necessary for salvation. If you cannot then just say so.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,473,424 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Katonjj,

Please! Start here:

Jesus Christ is God Incarnate
There are so many things wrong with that site... where to start...

First the fine print..
Proofs from the word of God,
The Authorized King James Bible of 1611

NOT NIV, NKJV, NASB, TLB, RSV, et al--
they corrupt this precious truth.
They are part of a ghastly array of
hundreds of Satanic modern-day Bibles.


Second...
God is the word: John 1:1 The word was God
Jesus is the word: John 1:14 The word became flesh

Are those two REALLY the same? Now regardless of who I think is implied by the word flesh in that verse, would any reasonable person think that those two would equal each other?

Third...
God is our Redeemer
Jesus redeems us

Are these the same? One is redeemer and one redeems... I can cook but my husband is a much greater cook.... This does not denote that they are the same being just that they both can redeem and furthermore the scripture shows that Jesus redeems THROUGH the redeemer (GOD).. and not of himself...

Fourth...
God is one.. Deut. 6:4
Jesus is one with God.. and yet it leaves out that the disciples should be one with God and others one with God as well.. so are all men God? John 17... then it quotes the KJV interpolation of 1 John 5:7 which we both know does not exist in early greek manuscripts...

Fifth...
God has a son
Jesus is said to have a father...
I have a son as well and my son has a father.. does that make my son God? How is this proving that Jesus is God?

Sixth....
God is Messiah... quotes from a verse used by yourself to prove that Jesus is mighty God and attributes it to God...Isa. 9:6
Jesus is Messiah.. well yes he is called Messiah What exactly does that prove? Is Isa. 9:6 referring to God or to Jesus? Make up your mind here!

Seventh...
Only God is glorified..
God glorified Jesus...
Well that makes sense.. God can glorify whomever he pleases can't he? but yet by glorifying the son he really glorifies himself..

Eighth....
Quote: "Jesus said: ‘My Father is greater (meizon) than I’ (John 14:28). But this refers to the Father’s greater position in Heaven, not superior nature. Philippians 2:5–11 states that Jesus had equality by nature with God, but voluntarily took on the lower position of a servant. The same arguments apply to related passages about Jesus submitting to His Father’s will."

Anyone with an IQ greater than 50 can see that this is misconstrued...Through the gospels Jesus states clearly that the father is above all things and that Jesus does the father's will, not his own... So God has a position that is higher in heaven? A heavenly hierarchy but they are by nature equal? Is that talking out both sides of the mouth? Because it is a contradiction.

Ninth.....
Quote: "Jesus is the only-begotten Son’ (John 3:16). The Greek word translated ‘only-begotten’ is monogenes, which means ‘unique, ‘one of a kind’. Jesus is the unique Son of God, because he is God by His very nature (see above). Believers in Him become ‘sons of God’ by adoption (Galatians 3:26–4:7)."

monogenes actually means only born.. what does born mean? Is God ever born? My son was born.. a creation of the creator. Jesus was born of the father, came forth from, begotten, created rather than creator.. Changing the meaning of a word is not proper exegesis.. is it?

Tenth... from the same website comes this rubbish which we both agree is complete fantasy....
The Antichrist Slideshow
Starring: The Popes of Rome
and
The Great ***** of Revelation Chapter 17
The Roman Catholic Religion


Yikes... and that is only the ones I wanted to refute...

So I started there.. now what?
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