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Old 11-17-2009, 05:45 AM
 
342 posts, read 312,044 times
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The sin debt of mankind had to be paid.....God is a Holy God.....His Love and Justice are both satisfied at the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ...Read John3:16-18.......Those who reject Christ as their "NEEDED" Saviour will pay their own sin debt......That debt is eternal punishment.......The way is narrow.....There is ONLY ONE WAY.........You cannot hope to save yourself by being good enough or loving enough.....that way of thinking and that path leads to hell.
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,851 posts, read 2,900,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vessif View Post
The sin debt of mankind had to be paid.....God is a Holy God.....His Love and Justice are both satisfied at the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ...Read John3:16-18.......Those who reject Christ as their "NEEDED" Saviour will pay their own sin debt......That debt is eternal punishment.......The way is narrow.....There is ONLY ONE WAY.........You cannot hope to save yourself by being good enough or loving enough.....that way of thinking and that path leads to hell.
So you believe you can't just confess Jesus and keep on moving on?

Do you believe we have to walk in the footsteps of Jesus?
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Old 11-17-2009, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Reverand and Christy...I wish you could hear yourselves...it's dizzying the way you both speak, or, (in our case) type...you twist your very own words...you contradict yourselves...let alone how you twist and contradict the Word of God. In one instance, you use the Word, just to turn it inside out to make it say what you wish it said...you're so lost......very sad.
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Old 11-17-2009, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,851 posts, read 2,900,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Reverand and Christy...I wish you could hear yourselves...it's dizzying the way you both speak, or, (in our case) type...you twist your very own words...you contradict yourselves...let alone how you twist and contradict the Word of God. In one instance, you use the Word, just to turn it inside out to make it say what you wish it said...you're so lost......very sad.
What are you blabbering about now?
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 3,651,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
If it's interpreted in the way that Jesus taught, sure. But the book has been twisted to suit the carnal mind of man and has instilled fear in a lot of people. Fear of eternal hell, fear of what may happen to you if you do not accept it as the only book to salvation. I find God to be totally, unconditionally loving to all. Most people who read and adhere to the bible as holy and sacred, believe the God of the OT to be the God of the NT. Sure, same God, different interpretations.

The bible is compiled stories of the writers just like any history book. If we look at them through the eyes of Love and as stories to help in our journey, we can find the true meaning of each book of the bible. not all of them are for our time now so we shouldn't believe that they are truth anymore. I mean, look at history books. You find a story say, 100 years ago. At the time you believe it to be true. Through research you soon discover it's not all true and you find something else in the story that is another truth. You soon start rewriting that story because of evidence that was discovered after the story was written. Well, we can do the same thing with the bible. Look at the story of Genesis. Do you truely believe that the world was created in 6 days? It's completelty impossible. Even 6000 years is impossible when you take into consideration of what a planet has to go through in order to be inhabited.
Now, take the story of Jesus. What is the hidden meaning in all of His parables? He was talking to illiterate people and had to explain to them in a way so that they could understand God. Take that same story in todays times with literate people and substitute words and meanings fit for today.

I believe Jesus showed us who God is by His actions towards others. He lived the way God intended for all to live. When we put a book first as sacred, we are denying our own sacredness. Jesus taught the way to salvation while He was living. If He did that, then how can His death mean anything? His death was just that. The death of His body. His teachings are what saves a man from sin. He completed His mission BEFORE He died.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
You are absolutely correct....he taught us The Way to the Father and showed us how we are to accomplish this. Why is it so many Christians are not willing to follow in the footsteps of Jesus?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
What are you blabbering about now?
....just read Reverand's reply above, and your supportive reply to her...proof that you both are lost spiritually. I wish you could see it.
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,851 posts, read 2,900,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
....just read Reverand's reply above, and your supportive reply to her...proof that you both are lost spiritually. I wish you could see it.
What is it you find objectionable?

Did Jesus come to show us The Way to the Father?

And did he not give us an example to follow by...crucifying our old man/nature, denying ourselves and serving others...walking in PERFECT LOVE with all?

Reverend is absolutely correct when it comes to the bible....when read to find the spiritual intent or meaning of Jesus words to us, there is profound meaning in all the words and parables presented to us. When read "literally" and followed "literally", everything that Jesus attempted to impart to us gets lost in carnal man made dogma and doctrine. God's Kingdom is within us, God dwells within us, His temple is within us, until you understand that and let go of your physical carnal mind and perceptions of God....you will never understand how to have a true spiritual relationship with Him. God is spirit...you cannot worship Him or live for Him when you have a carnal and worldly mindset because you will be performing physical functions/rituals which will not get you any closer to God than it did the Jews of Jesus day. When you allow Gods spirit to lead you and guide you, then, and only then, will you KNOW God....this is when you will truly enter into the Kingdom and have the eternal life Jesus spoke of...which is KNOWING GOD AND JESUS CHRIST.

John 17:3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:21 AM
 
21,918 posts, read 9,740,707 times
Reputation: 3708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vessif View Post
The sin debt of mankind had to be paid.....God is a Holy God.....His Love and Justice are both satisfied at the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ...Read John3:16-18.......Those who reject Christ as their "NEEDED" Saviour will pay their own sin debt......That debt is eternal punishment.......The way is narrow.....There is ONLY ONE WAY.........You cannot hope to save yourself by being good enough or loving enough.....that way of thinking and that path leads to hell.
Being good and loving leads to hell???? The deception that appeals to the negative side of our human nature and desire for wrath and vengeance, punishment, etc. . . . is the clearest indicator that we are responding to satanic deception. The clearest indicator that God and the Holy spirit is guiding our understanding is when it appeals to the positive side of our human nature and desire for love and compassion, forgiveness, etc. WHICH doctrine seems more satanic to you, Vessif?
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 3,651,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
What is it you find objectionable?
That on one hand, you speak of things that you could have only learned from the Bible, whether your learning came first, second or third-hand. What they, (whoever you learned from) learned; what you learned from them, all came straight from the Bible, (what Reverand gives no more credit to, than to call it a good history book, or a good story book)...(in which you agree with her on),....yet, at the same time, you have this fantastic argument against certain parts of it that doesn't suit you...it doen't say what you want to hear, it's too uncomfortable for you, too much submission of your own wills...too much sacrifice of your own flesh...so you gleen from it just what you like...instead of taking from it exactly what it says all the way through it...leaving out what is truly vital to your salvation. To then teach this to others...you are going to be judged for every word that comes from your mouth, and I am not the one who is in judgement of you, even though you think that is what I am doing, I am not...the judgement comes from the Bible...what God is saying about what you teach...you don't teach what the Word of God says, because you give no credit to the validity of the Word of God. So, until you can trust in every Word...and I mean EVERY Word that proceeds from the mouth of God, who IS Jesus...(the One speaking as the Word of God in the Bible), that you call untrustworthy, Who says, (in the New Testament by the way), (as well as the Old), that you must keep His Commandments. Do you want to know God?...Do you want Him to know you?...then you must keep His Commandments.

Jesus' death on the cross did not erase the commandment of God to keep His Ten Commandments. The only laws His death took the place of where the "Ceremonial Laws," which are separate from the Ten Commandments...which includes the 4th one..Keeping the Sabbath holy unto God. What is the big deal about keeping the Ten Commandments anyway? Why do so many have such a problem when they hear someone keeps them? Shouldn't everyone who believes?...Shouldn't everyone who loves God keep them?...Is it not the natural thing to do? Keeping them doesn't make the one keeping them legalistic...not at all...they are not works unto salvation...salvation is a gift from God to those who believe...to those who have converted...the regenerated seed! Keeping the Ten Commandments shows God how much you love Him...and He abides in those who keep His Commandments...but He does not know, nor does he abide in, those who do not keep them....and if you do not keep them...you do not know God...even if you think you do, you do not.

You know, I hear it over and over again...
"O Verna...you're legalistic!"...or..."...That's works, not faith!"...or..."Verna...You don't keep the Ten Commandments to be saved, you only have to keep two...Love God, and Love your neighbor!"...My question to all you critics concerning keeping the Ten Commandments...Do you not love God with all of your heart, mind, and soul?...Is He not your only God?...Do you worship idols...anything other than God?...Do you murder people...physically?...Spiritually?...Do you have sex outside of marriage, or even think about the act of it?...with someone other than your spouse?...Do you covet other people's "things?"...Do you lie?...about other people?...Do you not keep the sabbath holy unto God?...Do you not honor your father and mother?...disrespecting them?...Do you steal what doesn't belong to you? If you do these things, how can you say that you are walking in the Spirit?..because you're not. If you do these things, how can you say that you are born-again...a new creation?...all the old things, along with the old sinful nature, have all passed away?...because you're not...you are STILL a sinner living a wicked life...not a new creation, walking in the power of the Holy Spirit of Christ, in the will of God. These are not my words...but the Words of God!

You are missing the mark!...but what makes it even worse is that you don't even give the Word of God the credit it is due...therefore you have no foundation to build upon...you don't have The Cornerstone to even begin building the temple...The Lord rules over His Kingdom...which is inside of one who believes and obeys His commands. He isn't ruling His Kingdom, nor does He even have a Kingdom within one who doesn't even believe that His Word is true...breathing and alive, just as it is given to us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl
Reverend is absolutely correct when it comes to the bible...
Nothing could be further from the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl
...when read to find the spiritual intent or meaning of Jesus words to us, there is profound meaning in all the words and parables presented to us. When read "literally" and followed "literally", everything that Jesus attempted to impart to us gets lost in carnal man made dogma and doctrine. God's Kingdom is within us, God dwells within us, His temple is within us, until you understand that and let go of your physical carnal mind and perceptions of God....you will never understand how to have a true spiritual relationship with Him. God is spirit...you cannot worship Him or live for Him when you have a carnal and worldly mindset because you will be performing physical functions/rituals which will not get you any closer to God than it did the Jews of Jesus day.

When you allow Gods spirit to lead you and guide you, then, and only then, will you KNOW God....this is when you will truly enter into the Kingdom and have the eternal life Jesus spoke of...which is KNOWING GOD AND JESUS CHRIST.

John 17:3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Amen! And how do we know we know Him and He knows us? John tells us specifically, he says:

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law [The Ten Commndments]: for sin is the transgression of the Law.
And ye know that He [Jesus] was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.
1 John 3:4-6.

Christy..This is the Word of God...not my words. I am not judging you, God's Word does that...I'm only pointing His Words out to you because I care for your soul...and Reverand, your soul too.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 11-17-2009 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,932 posts, read 6,743,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Did Jesus come to show us The Way to the Father?

And did he not give us an example to follow by...crucifying our old man/nature, denying ourselves and serving others...walking in PERFECT LOVE with all?

God's Kingdom is within us, God dwells within us, His temple is within us, until you understand that and let go of your physical carnal mind and perceptions of God....you will never understand how to have a true spiritual relationship with Him. God is spirit...you cannot worship Him or live for Him when you have a carnal and worldly mindset because you will be performing physical functions/rituals which will not get you any closer to God than it did the Jews of Jesus day. When you allow Gods spirit to lead you and guide you, then, and only then, will you KNOW God....this is when you will truly enter into the Kingdom and have the eternal life Jesus spoke of...which is KNOWING GOD AND JESUS CHRIST.

John 17:3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

My God girl - PREACH IT!!!
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 3,117,791 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
That on one hand, you speak of things that you could have only learned from the Bible, whether your learning came first, second or third-hand. What they, (whoever you learned from) learned; what you learned from them, all came straight from the Bible, (what Reverand gives no more credit to, than to call it a good history book, or a good story book)...(in which you agree with her on),....yet, at the same time, you have this fantastic argument against certain parts of it that doesn't suit you...it doen't say what you want to hear, it's too uncomfortable for you, too much submission of your own wills...too much sacrifice of your own flesh...so you gleen from it just what you like...instead of taking from it exactly what it says all the way through it...leaving out what is truly vital to your salvation. To then teach this to others...you are going to be judged for every word that comes from your mouth, and I am not the one who is in judgement of you, even though you think that is what I am doing, I am not...the judgement comes from the Bible...what God is saying about what you teach...you don't teach what the Word of God says, because you give no credit to the validity of the Word of God. So, until you can trust in every Word...and I mean EVERY Word that proceeds from the mouth of God, who IS Jesus...(the One speaking as the Word of God in the Bible), that you call untrustworthy, Who says, (in the New Testament by the way), (as well as the Old), that you must keep His Commandments. Do you want to know God?...Do you want Him to know you?...then you must keep His Commandments.


What makes you so sure that your truths are better? The bible tells you? The holy spirit tells you?
Well guess what, the love I have in my soul tells me that the bible is not the word of God. Do you still believe in slavery, raping children, murder? If not, you do not believe every word of the bible, therefore you do not follow "God's" word because I hear so many times how you biblers believe every single word of that book. You have the right to believe that and, at the same time, I and Christy have every right not to. It's not your decision to make regarding what is true in the book or not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Jesus' death on the cross did not erase the commandment of God to keep His Ten Commandments. The only laws His death took the place of where the "Ceremonial Laws," which are separate from the Ten Commandments...which includes the 4th one..Keeping the Sabbath holy unto God. What is the big deal about keeping the Ten Commandments anyway? Why do so many have such a problem when they hear someone keeps them? Shouldn't everyone who believes?...Shouldn't everyone who loves God keep them?...Is it not the natural thing to do? Keeping them doesn't make the one keeping them legalistic...not at all...they are not works unto salvation...salvation is a gift from God to those who believe...to those who have converted...the regenerted seed! Kepping the ten Commandments shows God how much you love Him...and He abides in those who keep His Commandments...but He does not know, nor does he abide in those who do not....and if you do nto keep them...you do not know God...even if you think you do, you do not.


Jesus gave the two commandments that overrode all the others. "Love God with all you heart, mind and soul and Love your neighbor as yourself. L O V E is the key to the kingdom. When I Love, whether I follow the bible or not, I'm following the commandments that Jesus gave.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
You know, I hear it over and over again...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
"O Verna...you're legalistic!"...or..."...That's works, not faith!"...or..."Verna...You don't keep the Ten Commandments to be saved, you only have to keep two...Love God, and Love your neighbor!"...My question to all you critics concerning keeping the Ten Commandments...Do you not love God with all of your heart, mind, and soul?...Is He not your only God?...Do you worship idols...anything other than God?...Do you murder people...physically?...Spiritually?...Do you have sex outside of marriage, or even think about the act of it?...with someone other than your spouse?...Do you covet other people's "things?"...Do you lie?...about other people?...Do you not keep the sabbath holy unto God?...Do you not honor your father and mother?...disrespecting them?...Do you steal what doesn't belong to you? If you do these things, how can you say that you are walking in the Spirit?..because you're not. If you do these things, how can you say that you are born-again...a new creation?...all the old things, along with the old sinful nature, have all passed away?...because you're not...you are STILL a sinner living a wicked life...not a new creation, walking in the power of the Holy Spirit of Christ, in the will of God. These are not my words...but the Words of God!


See the two commandments above. L O V E covers all the commandments. Divine Love.


[quote=Verna Perry;11664293]You are missing the mark!...but what makes it even worse is that you don't even give the Word of God the credit it is due...therefore you have no foundation to build upon...you don't have The Cornerstone to even begin building the temple...The Lord rules over His Kingdom...which is inside of one who believes and obeys His commands. He isn't ruling His Kingdom, nor does He even have a Kingdom within one who doesn't even believe that His Word is true...breathing and alive, just as it is given to us.


Nothing could be further from the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl
...when read to find the spiritual intent or meaning of Jesus words to us, there is profound meaning in all the words and parables presented to us. When read "literally" and followed "literally", everything that Jesus attempted to impart to us gets lost in carnal man made dogma and doctrine. God's Kingdom is within us, God dwells within us, His temple is within us, until you understand that and let go of your physical carnal mind and perceptions of God....you will never understand how to have a true spiritual relationship with Him. God is spirit...you cannot worship Him or live for Him when you have a carnal and worldly mindset because you will be performing physical functions/rituals which will not get you any closer to God than it did the Jews of Jesus day.



Amen! And how do we know we know Him and He knows us? John tells us specifically, he says:

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law [The Ten Commndments]: for sin is the transgression of the Law.
And ye know that He [Jesus] was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.
1 John 3:4-6.

Christy..This is the Word of God...not my words. I am not judging you, God's Word does that...I'm only pointing His Words out to you because I care for your soul...and Reverand, your soul too.
My soul is in God's hands. I don't need to put my soul in a book where God cannot see it. My soul is no longer in darkness and just because I don't read nor adhere to the bible, does not mean that I'm a sinner headed for hell. I'm a child of God just as you are. His Love is manifested in me for all eternity. I will become At-One with Him eventually, complete with a brand new soul! My path is different and that's the only difference between you and me. We are each other at our spiritual root source.

You are being judgemental when you try to say that we are wrong and you are absolutely right. You don't know our soul condition. Only God does. You shouldn't say things you know nothing about.
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