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Old 11-28-2009, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,203,473 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So you do believe that Christ died for all sins of all people.. then how is it that they can choose to retain them?
By professing their belief...this is in scripture.

Quote:
The verse you quoted is talking about dying.. physically dying.. what does that have to do with God sending them to hell or annihilation?
The soul of the sinner shall die....soul...spirit...?

Those same souls are God's.. Do you think you have a choice as to where you will go after you die? [/quote]

No you don't have that choice, but you do prior to that..accept Christ.

Quote:
Because if what you say is true... then God would be able to annihilate anyone..even though that contradicts many parts of the bible.
How...?

Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Quote:
If Jesus truly died for all sin.. then all sin is washed away.. how then can a sinner retain his sin in the afterlife?
He doesn't...he pays for the sin after life...eternally or simply after his payment is justified by God, he is then destroyed. Matt 10:28

Quote:
You may believe it is a crock but I believe that Jesus will accomplish his goal of saving the lost, the sinners. All of them.
He already did that...that work is done. Profess your faith, and you will be saved.
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Old 11-28-2009, 01:44 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 1,328,671 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
...He already did that...that work is done. Profess your faith, and you will be saved.
But do you really believe this? What about the infants who cannot confess, or those who cannot understand due to physical or mental imparment? How do they profess their faith, if it is required, as you say it is for salvation?
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Old 11-28-2009, 01:55 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,269,124 times
Reputation: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Ironmaw....do spirits have tongues?

The verses you post are in regards to man, not by spirit. This is where UR fails. They place the scriptures to relate to the spirit after death, when they are in regards to the man...the anthropos.

In regards to 1 Cor 3:15

He shall be saved, yet so as by fire, saved out of the fire. He himself shall be snatched out of that flame which will consume his work. This intimates that it will be difficult for those, that corrupt and deprave Christianity, to be saved. God will have no mercy on their works, though he may pluck them as brands out of the burning.

1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Be careful where you tread my friend.
You are really funny, its entertaining at least how you twist and turn things to make them say something other than what they clearly mean ...

I show you that the language in those verses specifically relates how all people will willingly and joyfully praise and worship God, after you said that they mean that God will force them to say uncle before he destroys them, and you don't even flinch but just turn things around yet again to say this is referring to people before they die ... Nice little trick there but it doesn't hold water ... You are a sneaky lil' devil aren't you ...

This is after the resurrection ... This has not yet happened ... This is on earth not in heaven ... Oh yeah, that's right, you don't believe in the resurrection, to bad for you!

We must be destroyed daily, that is our carnal natures must be crucified ...

God will certainly destroy everyone's carnal natures, and renew them in the spirit ...


Rev 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


You say that being saved by fire only refers to Christians, and that it doesn't mean that they are saved by the fire but actually that they are snatched out of it ... Which is not what it clearly says, but you are not into clear sayings of the bible, instead you prefer to twist them around to make them say what you want them to mean. That's very disingenuous in my opinion, and i think others would agree. But that is what you do with every verse presented to you which speaks of the eventual salvation of all people, so i am not in the least surprised by it, only mildly amused. Its like watching a clumsy ballerina trip and fall all over the stage who believes herself to be the very picture of grace and subtlety of motion.

Whats more, you must remember that the wicked believers(wicked servants) are appointed their portion with unbelievers, so even if 1 Cor 3:15 was only referring to wicked Christians in the context(which i don't believe that it is, as the judgment of works here is the same as that referred to in Rev 20:12-13 ), that is also the fate of the unbelievers who are judged in the same manner ...


Luk 12:46
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.



Proper exegesis! As you are always so fond of saying ...
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:04 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,269,124 times
Reputation: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
But do you really believe this? What about the infants who cannot confess, or those who cannot understand due to physical or mental imparment? How do they profess their faith, if it is required, as you say it is for salvation?
Or what about all the pagan gentile heathens who lived on earth before Christ was ever born of a woman? Did they have the chance to believe and confess Christ is their savior?

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 11-28-2009 at 02:23 PM..
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:07 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,269,124 times
Reputation: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Ironmaw....do spirits have tongues?

The verses you post are in regards to man, not by spirit. This is where UR fails. They place the scriptures to relate to the spirit after death, when they are in regards to the man...the anthropos.

In regards to 1 Cor 3:15

He shall be saved, yet so as by fire, saved out of the fire. He himself shall be snatched out of that flame which will consume his work. This intimates that it will be difficult for those, that corrupt and deprave Christianity, to be saved. God will have no mercy on their works, though he may pluck them as brands out of the burning.

1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Be careful where you tread my friend.
You wrote ...
Quote:
The verses you post are in regards to man, not by spirit. This is where UR fails. They place the scriptures to relate to the spirit after death, when they are in regards to the man...the anthropos.
So you believe that every person bows to Christ and joyously and willingly confess he is their lord ... before they die? If that is the case then everyone is saved because everyone confesses and bows to Christ before they die ...

If that is not what you mean then what exactly are you saying? Its hard to grasp because you keep changing what what you say that you think these verses actually mean ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 11-28-2009 at 02:23 PM..
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:54 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 1,328,671 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Or what about all the pagan gentile heathens who lived on earth before Christ was ever born of a woman? Did they have the chance to believe and confess Christ is their savior?
The reason people do not believe in the final salvation and reconciliation of all is because they truly do not believe the Gospel and it's good news. They do not truly believe that God justifies the ungodly:

Rom 4:5 and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned--to righteousness:

If they did, they would know Jesus is the Saviour of the world:

1Jn 4:14 And we--we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son--Saviour of the world;
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,203,473 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
But do you really believe this? What about the infants who cannot confess, or those who cannot understand due to physical or mental imparment? How do they profess their faith, if it is required, as you say it is for salvation?
What does the scripture say? You look it up please. I already know where it is, and it is obvious you do not.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,203,473 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
You are really funny, its entertaining at least how you twist and turn things to make them say something other than what they clearly mean ...

I show you that the language in those verses specifically relates how all people will willingly and joyfully praise and worship God, after you said that they mean that God will force them to say uncle before he destroys them, and you don't even flinch but just turn things around yet again to say this is referring to people before they die ... Nice little trick there but it doesn't hold water ... You are a sneaky lil' devil aren't you ...

This is after the resurrection ... This has not yet happened ... This is on earth not in heaven ... Oh yeah, that's right, you don't believe in the resurrection, to bad for you!

We must be destroyed daily, that is our carnal natures must be crucified ...

God will certainly destroy everyone's carnal natures, and renew them in the spirit ...


Rev 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


You say that being saved by fire only refers to Christians, and that it doesn't mean that they are saved by the fire but actually that they are snatched out of it ... Which is not what it clearly says, but you are not into clear sayings of the bible, instead you prefer to twist them around to make them say what you want them to mean. That's very disingenuous in my opinion, and i think others would agree. But that is what you do with every verse presented to you which speaks of the eventual salvation of all people, so i am not in the least surprised by it, only mildly amused. Its like watching a clumsy ballerina trip and fall all over the stage who believes herself to be the very picture of grace and subtlety of motion.

Whats more, you must remember that the wicked believers(wicked servants) are appointed their portion with unbelievers, so even if 1 Cor 3:15 was only referring to wicked Christians in the context(which i don't believe that it is, as the judgment of works here is the same as that referred to in Rev 20:12-13 ), that is also the fate of the unbelievers who are judged in the same manner ...


Luk 12:46
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.



Proper exegesis! As you are always so fond of saying ...
Ironmaw...one question for you...

What and who does Rev 18:23 and 24 refer to?
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,203,473 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Or what about all the pagan gentile heathens who lived on earth before Christ was ever born of a woman? Did they have the chance to believe and confess Christ is their savior?
1 Peter 3:19 you look it up......
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,203,473 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
You wrote ...
So you believe that every person bows to Christ and joyously and willingly confess he is their lord ... before they die? If that is the case then everyone is saved because everyone confesses and bows to Christ before they die ...

If that is not what you mean then what exactly are you saying? Its hard to grasp because you keep changing what what you say that you think these verses actually mean ...
What does Revelation 20-22 preach about the wicked?
You look it up and study it well.
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