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There aren't any examples of context around the words aionion, owlam applied to judgments that show that they are everlasting. But there are examples where the context around the words aionion and owlam shows that those aionion consequences are not everlasting.
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owlam has an end....aionion does not. The first refers to the Old Covenant age, which had an end, but the second refers to the New Covenant age, which does not have an end.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 11-17-2009 at 08:47 PM..
Reason: spelling again....:(
Whatever punishments or disciplines from God that are put upon those who are alive, can be removed by God, if or when that person turns back toward God. That concerns the living. Divine discipline in time is not the same as eternal punishment after death.
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Originally Posted by Mike555
What part of Matt. 25:41 do you not understand? ''Then He will also say to those on His left, ''Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. 46) ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.'' ( And what part of this do you not understand? That if eternal life means eternal, and it does, then eternal punishment means eternal.)
Like I said, the whole doctrine of ET hinges on the translation of aionion as everlasting. Yet there are examples in the OT of owlam and aionion (LXX) punishments that are not everlasting. So which should I believe? Certain translators (where many others disagree) or scriptures?
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And what part of this do you not understand? At the very end of human history; at the end of the last dispensation, at the Great White Throne Judgment, Jesus Christ as the righteous judge will send the unbeliever away into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15 ''And if anyones name was not found in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.''
The part where you assume it is everlasting punishement.
owlam has an end....aionion does not. The first refers to the Old Covenant age, which had an end, but the second refers to the New Covenant age, which does not have an end.
I guess the LXX translators messed up then, because they translated owlam as aionion in places where the context shows it has an end.
I guess the LXX translators messed up then, because they translated owlam as aionion in places where the context shows it has an end.
Olam does carry the meaning of eternal. As I said, it depends on the context. Research it in connection with the Abrahamic, Palestinian, Davidic Covenants, and the New Covenant to Israel.
These are unconditional covenants to Israel that have an eternal-olam, promise to Israel, which God will keep.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Galatains 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The promises made to Abraham pertain to his spiritual seed according to faith in Christ, not to his physical seed.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Galatains 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The promises made to Abraham pertain to his spiritual seed according to faith in Christ, not to his physical seed.
Study the material. The promise is that Abraham and his descendants will inherit the land that God promised them. It will be theirs forever. This isn't a debate. If you are of such a nature that you are not willing to find the truth of the matter concerning eternal condemnation, then just wait until you die and find it out the hard way.
Let's deal with 1 Tim 2:4-6 exegetically why don't we?
1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
θέλει - present indicative action of θέλω to wish or to desire with an infinitive to ἄνθρωπος an aorist passive infinitive of σῴζω...to be saved.
In compliance and infinitive with the verb θέλει - to wish and to desire as we noted above... ἐπίγνωσις - the knowledge, recognition directed at a particular object which is - ἐλθεῖν - truth. ἐλθεῖν - truth is in compliance and is in direct reference to the preceding infinitive which is the knowledge of that, in this life presently and preceding the afterlife, which is apart or separate from ἄνθρωπος - man, in the flesh.
This action is purely based on 1 Tim 2:5, in that it is needed for Christ, the mediator - μεσίτης, to be σῴζω - saved, and this only includes those ἄνθρωπος - men, living in this life presently, not after the present cf. Matt 20:28. He gave His life for a ἀντίλυτρον - ransom, the price paid for the release of a slave...
This preposition implies and compounds the need for an exchange between the two...Christ and the man, presently....not after life.
So you see, 1 Tim 2:4-6 does indeed show us that Christ did give His life for all mankind, but in this letter to Timothy, written to another Christian, Paul is compounding the necessity for mankind to receive Christ here and now, or with proper hermeneutical application, the latter 1st century men and women, and that there is a need for Him in their life in order to receive salvation....from that specific mediator Jesus Christ.
UR is a noble claim for those wanting to continue living in their sins, but a false one at that, and has rightly been usurped by the majority of theologians that have examined the various Unie claims throughout the past two millennia. You must accept Christ now, in this life, in order to receive eternal life that He ransomed His life for "all" that receive the gospel.
Study the material. The promise is that Abraham and his descendants will inherit the land that God promised them. It will be theirs forever. This isn't a debate.
I did look but when I saw that they don't even know who is Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise I considered it fruitless.
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If you are of such a nature that you are not willing to find the truth of the matter concerning eternal condemnation, then just wait until you die and find it out the hard way.
So it's salvation by belief in eternal condemnation, and Mike's study material.
Universalism makes an appeal to the emotion and to the attribute of God's love, while ignoring the Justice of God, and superimposing human notions of justice on God.
Mike, saying that eternal torment is justice for a life time of sin, or whats worse eternal torment is justice for simply believing in a different religion than Christianity even though you still live a life of moral grace, is infinitely more insane than saying that a lifetime of torture and finally death is justice for not wearing your seat belt in Texas. You guys really need to get a grip.
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