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Why does God being just = the wicked being destroyed ? . I cannnot fathom why you automatically believe God's justice means death, destruction,torture and other thing that remotely comes close to any of these things.
And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the LORD; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man. 1 Chronicles 21 :13
You are obviously getting Man's and God Justice mixed up
Well.. what about Hebrews 10:31-It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
It was dreadful to fall into the hands of my Dad when i misbehaved as a kid , and you know what i am grateful for it and still standing today.
Kat i would much rather be left to the mercies of God rather than the mercies of man.
I am suprised by your question
I knew you would be...
I just wanted to play devil's advocate for a post.
It is a dreadful thing to have all of your sins exposed, and that is what happens when you believe in God. Your sins are so exposed to you that you (if you are wise) naturally want to keep from sinning. Those who will have their sins exposed are in terrible torment between their spirit wanting to go to God (or someone) to ease the pain but their flesh just won't give up the instant gratification of sin. It terrifies me just thinking about having to go through all that again!
Why does God being just = the wicked being destroyed ? . I cannnot fathom why you automatically believe God's justice means death, destruction,torture and other thing that remotely comes close to any of these things.
Because that is what the scripture says....not me...God. Take a look..see for yourself...or do I need to post the scriptures once again?
Micks.. a quick question. What is justice to you? Perhaps you and Ironmaw define Justice differently...
Perhaps....but what is interesting is that God defines it plainly to us, in several ways, and, all I do is post what He says, and it is contradicted by Ironmaw and others......hence the debate and thus the confusion.
Perhaps....but what is interesting is that God defines it plainly to us, in several ways, and, all I do is post what He says, and it is contradicted by Ironmaw and others......hence the debate and thus the confusion.
Noah Webster's Dictionary
(n.) The quality of being just; conformity to the principles of righteousness and rectitude in all things; strict performance of moral obligations; practical conformity to human or divine law; integrity in the dealings of men with each other; rectitude; equity; uprightness.
Int. Standard Bible Encyclopedia
JUSTICE
jus'-tis (tsedhaqah; tsedheq; dikaiosune): The original Hebrew and Greek words are the same as those rendered "righteousness." This is the common rendering, and in about half the cases where we have "just" and "justice" in the King James Version, the American Standard Revised Version has changed to "righteous" and "righteousness." It must be constantly borne in mind that the two ideas are essentially the same.
For rejecting the sacrifice God made for all of us. That is what the scripture teaches...believe it or not.
I don't see that taught at all.. especially in light of the preterist view that the period we are talking about was a transition period where the gospel was first spread... I think that you are confusing the judgment we both agree occured in the first century with what is said about the New Covenant and the new heavens and earth... All things are made new.. that means to me that one CANNOT reject the sacrifice because sin and death have been defeated... So how do you say that sin and death have been defeated and then say that someone can hold on to their sin and death if they reject Christ? Before the second coming I can see you saying that but after?
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
2 Thess 1:8-9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Matt 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
There is so much more...more so than anyone wants to come to grips with. Why is it so hard to swallow that God deals with the wicked in these ways. We cannot put ourselves in the place of God, or be it, understand why He does, but that it is His nature....it is what the scripture teaches over and over and over again, but yet UR can't swallow it, they reach outside of the scripture to help their carnal minds wrap around the nature of Him, when it is clear, that those mysteries of Him and the reasons for His judgements are His and are left to Him only...none other. What is so difficult here?
We have loved ones, that died and never believed, they are condemned. We can't grasp it, it hurts deep within us, but these are the providences of God, and they are left up to Him. It still hurts, I know...I am with all of you who have experienced this. I would rather their souls be completely destroyed than be in torment forever, but the scripture is plain about these things. We cannot avoid them, as much as we try to reach into our flesh and carnal minds to explain these things away, they are real, and according to God and His word, it is His justice, His government, and we are not in control of His decisions....they are left up to Him.
We should leave it at that, and just spread the gospel, instead of being in error, even slightly, and be judged harshly for preaching the errors.
I post the scripture, and the scripture is the last word. And what we define in the scripture, is defined in the scripture, and that is the last word. Not the interpretations of men, dictionaries, doctrines, and philosophers, but of God only, and His word.
And if He said forever, then it is forever.
You can't have it both ways.
God's kingdom is forever.
Eternal damnation is forever, whether they be destroyed or just damned, the punishment, is forever, whether they exist during that punishment eternity, or whether they are annihilated after, during or at its onset.
The act of His punishment is irreversable and forever.
And we have to accept that.
Our duty is to obey Him, none other, not question Him at all.
Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Matt 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. αἰών aiōn
Deal with it UR.
I don't see that taught at all.. especially in light of the preterist view that the period we are talking about was a transition period where the gospel was first spread... I think that you are confusing the judgment we both agree occured in the first century with what is said about the New Covenant and the new heavens and earth... All things are made new.. that means to me that one CANNOT reject the sacrifice because sin and death have been defeated... So how do you say that sin and death have been defeated and then say that someone can hold on to their sin and death if they reject Christ? Before the second coming I can see you saying that but after?
Then what is outside of the gates of the New Jerusalem, and why do they have no part in the book of Life?
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
The book of Life is the name's that are decreed to enter Heaven.
Those that accept Christ, walk in the light of the New Jerusalem, and live within the city gates of Christianity. Those outside of that, are NOT written in the book of life, and therefore, are NOT allowed into Heaven.......EVER. The scripture ends there. No redemption of the wicked....nothing...nada...zilch.
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