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Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead
Philippians 3:12-13
Paul is talking about attaining spiritual maturity, not salvation.
To further show that once you have believed in Christ for salvation, you have eternal security, and cannot ever lose your salvation, I direct you to what my pastor/teacher has written about it.
According to your own standards Mike I too am "saved" forever. So it seems that we'll be spending eternity rubbing shoulders or bumping into each other in heaven and you may as well get used to tolerating me and all other Christians because according to the doctrine you teach as I now understand it, we're all guaranteed a place in heaven and even God can't change that!
According to your mentor Robert McLaughlin in whom you seem to put your absolute faith and trust: "All believers are secure forever. All believers have the right to personal assurance of their eternal security." (Doctrinal Statement of McLaughin's church.)
Assuming that "believer" means anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is Savior and Redeemer, then I guess by your mentor's definition ALL Christians are "saved" and going to heaven.
Why are you Mike so quick to judge and condemn other followers of Jesus Christ even if they don't believe exactly as you do on all biblical interpretations, if they too are saved and you and your mentor are going to be spending a whole lot of time in their company, including with many millions of Mormons who also believe that Jesus Christ is Savior and Redeemer?
But wait, there may be a catch. McLaughlin adds to what seemed like a simple soul saving doctrine and introduces another doctrine, this one called "rebound".
Among other things, he teaches:
"Eternal security ensures us that we cannot lose our salvation; however, we can lose rewards and blessings! Additionally, rebound ensures us that we are forgiven of our sins at the moment we confess them, but it does not magically remove the consequences of our actions. For example, if we break the law and are caught, we are still saved, and if we name and cite the sin, we are forgiven, but we will still suffer the consequences of the established laws. Make no mistake … no one gets away with anything in the Supreme Court of Heaven."
Is that a watering down of the original OSAS doctrine that scholars created in 1689? Or is your mentor trying to have his cake and eat it too? Is he trying to keep one foot in each faith/works camp just in case some biblical interpretation turns out to be faulty perhaps?
It seems that your pastor teaches that works areimportant, that if we die with unrepented sins we will lose SOMETHING. (He calls those somethings "rewards" or "blessings". He says that in spite of being "saved" we still must suffer the "consequences" of our actions while in mortality.)
Still "saved", but not totally?
Is that a concession to the 'works are important too' believers? In that light, your doctrine Mike doesn't seem a whole lot different than what other Christians believe.
According to your own standards Mike I too am "saved" forever. So it seems that we'll be spending eternity rubbing shoulders or bumping into each other in heaven and you may as well get used to tolerating me and all other Christians because according to the doctrine you teach as I now understand it, we're all guaranteed a place in heaven and even God can't change that!
Would you care to respond?
Jesus never taught becoming a god.
Jesus didn't teach that you need to prove yourself worthy to Joseph Smith to enter the Celestial Kingdom. that there was marriage after death.
Jesus never taught
Jesus taught that you're to be perfect, not becoming perfect.
Jesus would never endorse Mormonism.
No Mormon will ever enter heaven, only outer darkness....and that's sad.
According to your own standards Mike I too am "saved" forever. So it seems that we'll be spending eternity rubbing shoulders or bumping into each other in heaven and you may as well get used to tolerating me and all other Christians because according to the doctrine you teach as I now understand it, we're all guaranteed a place in heaven and even God can't change that!
According to your mentor Robert McLaughlin in whom you seem to put your absolute faith and trust: "All believers are secure forever. All believers have the right to personal assurance of their eternal security." (Doctrinal Statement of McLaughin's church.)
Assuming that "believer" means anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is Savior and Redeemer, then I guess by your mentor's definition ALL Christians are "saved" and going to heaven.
Why are you Mike so quick to judge and condemn other followers of Jesus Christ even if they don't believe exactly as you do on all biblical interpretations, if they too are saved and you and your mentor are going to be spending a whole lot of time in their company, including with many millions of Mormons who also believe that Jesus Christ is Savior and Redeemer?
But wait, there may be a catch. McLaughlin adds to what seemed like a simple soul saving doctrine and introduces another doctrine, this one called "rebound".
Among other things, he teaches:
"Eternal security ensures us that we cannot lose our salvation; however, we can lose rewards and blessings! Additionally, rebound ensures us that we are forgiven of our sins at the moment we confess them, but it does not magically remove the consequences of our actions. For example, if we break the law and are caught, we are still saved, and if we name and cite the sin, we are forgiven, but we will still suffer the consequences of the established laws. Make no mistake … no one gets away with anything in the Supreme Court of Heaven."
Is that a watering down of the original OSAS doctrine that scholars created in 1689? Or is your mentor trying to have his cake and eat it too? Is he trying to keep one foot in each faith/works camp just in case some biblical interpretation turns out to be faulty perhaps?
It seems that your pastor teaches that works areimportant, that if we die with unrepented sins we will lose SOMETHING. (He calls those somethings "rewards" or "blessings". He says that in spite of being "saved" we still must suffer the "consequences" of our actions while in mortality.)
Still "saved", but not totally?
Is that a concession to the 'works are important too' believers? In that light, your doctrine Mike doesn't seem a whole lot different than what other Christians believe.
Would you care to respond?
Rebound is 1 John 1:9.
Salvation is through faith alone.
After salvation, if you are growing in grace, you will be motivated to have spiritual production. Works are never the means of producing spiritual growth, rather spiritual growth motivates production. If you want more on it, then go back and look through my threads.
Jesus never taught becoming a god.
Jesus didn't teach that you need to prove yourself worthy to Joseph Smith to enter the Celestial Kingdom. that there was marriage after death.
Jesus never taught
Jesus taught that you're to be perfect, not becoming perfect.
Jesus would never endorse Mormonism.
No Mormon will ever enter heaven, only outer darkness....and that's sad.
As usual spin you display your ignorance of and bigotry towards the religious beliefs and practices of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who do not worship the founder of their church nor consider him to be their judge.
But what do your comments have to do with the post you are responding to? By MIKE'S standards, I too am "saved".
All these verses compound that the wicked will perish and not be saved from the fire in any way....
if the fire is God...how do you say they wont be able to be part of the kingdom of God?
Quote:
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
The "they" in the first part of the verse is the same "they" that look upon the corpses... The passage is about righteous men looking back on their own sinful ways.
Quote:
Mal 4:1-6 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.
Again.. God is the fire that is burning them up.. to what end? annihilation? God will burn them up within himself so they can cease to exist? Why make them in the first place?
Quote:
The wicked will pay for their sins, and God will undoubtedly, do what He will with them, but they most certainly will not be allowed into the kingdom, by any means.
UR is a lie.
Yes the wicked will pay for their sins.. right here on earth while they live.. consequences of our actions. But you say because of their sins on earth they will be separated from God in eternity by a consuming fire which is also God? How can they be separated from God when God is consuming them?
After salvation, if you are growing in grace, you will be motivated to have spiritual production. Works are never the means of producing spiritual growth, rather spiritual growth motivates production. If you want more on it, then go back and look through my threads.
And Mormons are not Christian. They are a cult.
Mike, in post 224 you stated:
"...you must believe in Christ in order to be saved. However, once you are saved, you are saved forever."
Mormons (and probably every other Christian) believe in Christ and accept him as Savior and Redeemer. Therefore, by your own statement Mormons (and probably every other Christian) are "saved".
Mormons (and probably every other Christian) believe in Christ and accept him as Savior and Redeemer. Therefore, by your own statement Mormons (and probably every other Christian) are "saved".
Salvation is through faith in Christ alone. If you add anything to faith, including baptism, then you are not saved.
Mormons believe that you must be baptised to be saved. Mormons also believe in the ordinances of salvation.
Mormons believe in 'we are saved by grace after all we can do.' 2 nephi 25:23
In contrast, the Bible makes it clear. 'For by grace are you saved through faith,and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of works that no man may boast. Eph 2:8,9
Jesus never taught becoming a god.
Jesus didn't teach that you need to prove yourself worthy to Joseph Smith to enter the Celestial Kingdom. that there was marriage after death.
Jesus never taught
Jesus taught that you're to be perfect, not becoming perfect.
Jesus would never endorse Mormonism.
No Mormon will ever enter heaven, only outer darkness....and that's sad.
??? No that's not sad it is your bigotry... God is no respecter of persons but obviously you are.
Salvation is through faith in Christ alone. If you add anything to faith, including baptism, then you are not saved.
Mormons believe that you must be baptised to be saved. Mormons also believe in the ordinances of salvation.
Mormons believe in 'we are saved by grace after all we can do.' 2 nephi 25:23
In contrast, the Bible makes it clear. 'For by grace are you saved through faith,and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of works that no man may boast. Eph 2:8,9
By adding works to faith you are not saved.
You added the "you are not saved" bit as that is not in scripture... works are useless yes but that doesn't mean you are not saved because you do good things...
You are just trying to demean another for their religion which is just plain insulting to the rest of us who live in God's love and mercy... Who are you to say what God accepts and doesn't accept as far as salvation?
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