God deludes people so they go to hell? (sinners, Jesus, creation)

[little elmer]

You can't reconcile the concept if you can't see the sovereignty behind God's love for us - and conversely, His love behind His sovereign acts. The question at hand is "what does damning mean?" I believe that God brings about everything to ultimately end with His will. Now, what is His will, and can you break free from it, oh mighty man?

[mercy777]

Take a look at Pharaoh. He was preached to by Moses and given miraculous signs and still the Lord hardened his heart. He definetly had time to repent of his pride. God gives every opportunity.

Exodus 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said.
Exodus 8:32 But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not let the people go.
Exodus 9:12 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.
Exodus 9:34
When Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had stopped, he sinned again: He and his officials hardened their hearts.
Exodus 10:1 [ The Plague of Locusts ] Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them
Exodus 10:20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go.
Exodus 10:27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he was not willing to let them go.
Exodus 11:10
Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.
Exodus 14:8
The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, so that he pursued the Israelites, who were marching out boldly.
Each time, the Lord displayed his glory.

Mark 6:52
for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.
Mark 8:17 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked them: "Why are you talking about having no bread? Do you still not see or understand? Are your hearts hardened?
John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them." [ Isaiah 6:10]
Romans 11:7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened,
Because they continued to sin.
Hebrews 3:13
But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called "Today," so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.
John 3: 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."


Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart,
O God, you will not despise.God always hears the cry of mercy.

[Chango]

Originally Posted by legoman

2 Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Why do people quote this to say you are deceived and imply you are going to be damned to hell? Do they really mean to say that God deludes a person so they have no chance for salvation? Is that what people think God does?

I thought God wanted to save everyone.

As if it is your fault that you are deceived anyway - by definition, if one is deceived, they are tricked, confused, not seeing, and they don't know it. No one ever knows they are deceived until they are no longer deceived.

I think that is entrapment...

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by mercy777

Take a look at Pharaoh.

Take a look at Jesus

The Son(Jesus) is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being Hebrews 1 : 3

[little elmer]

Originally Posted by Chango

I think that is entrapment...

It's referred to as being "owned". "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right" in His eyes(?) - but being sovereign, it need not be right in ours.

[dipidydoodaa]

i don't remeber what verse it is but....there is a verse where God says
"all souls are mine" so yes we are owned, God can do what He desires to do with them.

He tells us in His word that He ...will have ALL to come to the knowledge of the truth, it's all a matter of His timing

blessing ya'll

[meerkat2]

What I am noticing at the moment is the word that is used as "damned" is G2919 krino - it is more about judging than damning.

Have a look at how this word is used in other verses and you will notice that mostof the times that it is used in the strict negative sense of damnation is when it relates to a supposed "eternal hell" Mostly the word is used for judging, deciding,

If you look at this verse you see that judging is a different word to condemning

Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

G2613
καταδικάζω
katadikazō
kat-ad-ik-ad'-zo
From G2596 and a derivative of G1349; to adjudge against, that is, pronounce guilty: - condemn.

G2919
κρίνω
krinō
kree'-no
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

[Harold Kupp]

Originally Posted by legoman

Come on, tell us what you think it means then. I take it you then believe God deludes people so they will go to hell? Does that fit the character of God?

Yes - when God is dealing with rebellious sinners who loved unrighteousness; that is exactly how He operates.

Don't forget the character of God includes the wrath of God.

If you want to understand the character of God when dealing with those whom he has called and and have rejected knowledge read the following Scripture:


Pro 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
Pro 1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
Pro 1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
Pro 1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
Pro 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:


That is the nature of God...

HK

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by Harold Kupp

Yes - when God is dealing with rebellious sinners who loved unrighteousness; that is exactly how He operates.

Don't forget the character of God includes the wrath of God.

If you want to understand the character of God when dealing with those whom he has called and and have rejected knowledge read the following Scripture:


Pro 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
Pro 1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
Pro 1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
Pro 1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
Pro 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:


That is the nature of God...

HK

No it is not the nature of God, nor the character or an attribute of God , it's the discipline of God and nothing more.

These very same people from Proverbs you quote , Jesus the son of God went to Calvary for and laid down His life there to redeem them back to Himself . He gave Himself a ransom for all men and here you are delighting in a god who you think is against His creation when infact Calvary demonstrates He was and is 100% for it .

[Harold Kupp]

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

HK