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Yes. Most people have the wrong idea about what is required in salvation. Instead of simply believing in Christ as the Bible says to do, they confuse the issue and end up adding something to faith, or make the mistake of inviting Christ into the heart, or some other variation. And this is often because the pastor of the church they attend, or whoever presented the Gospel to them, didn't know what they were talking about.
With respect for your right to believe as you will, it seems that you and your pastor are going to be quite lonely in heaven Mike if what you teach is correct and almost all of God's children are headed for hell to burn there forever for the sin of not believing exactly as you do...
As I see it, the "once saved always saved" OSAS doctrine (which apparently originated in 1689) teaches that the commandments and ordinances of God are not important and can be safely ignored. Various verses from the bible are cited and interpreted by OSAS proponents such as yourself to support that doctrine. But other verses that clearly refute it are ignored or spun to fit what a group of arm of flesh scholars came up with.
Below are only two of a huge number of verses from scripture that as I see it plainly and clearly expose OSAS for what it is, an unbiblical invention of scholars, and one with the potential to deceive and deprive of their eternal salvation sincere Christians who heed the careless carnal call of OSAS, think they are saved already regardless of what they do, and ignore God's commandments.
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20: 12
Who said anything about respecting false teachings, I thought you would respect ME. As I respected you. Even though I believe you sharing a false teaching.
Don't let it bug you. It's like talking to a brick wall, or trying to clap with one hand, if you will.
It's his way or the highway (to hell). Fortunately, I actually have a life away from my computer. Speaking of that..............
Don't let it bug you. It's like talking to a brick wall, or trying to clap with one hand, if you will. It's his way or the highway (to hell). Fortunately, I actually have a life away from my computer. Speaking of that..............
I agree, whoever it was who got to Mike and put him into that tight little box, he really got to him, he's now totally closed-minded it seems.
But those of us who care about the eternal well-being of others and do not know how persuasive Mike's stuff might be to lurkers who are not as familiar with scriptures as are those who can easily see through Mike's package, may feel that we should continue to provide contrasting points of view and choices. My major concern personally is the possibility that Mike's doctrines could lull otherwise sincere followers of Jesus Christ into carnal security and the breaking of commandments.
With respect for your right to believe as you will, it seems that you and your pastor are going to be quite lonely in heaven Mike if what you teach is correct and almost all of God's children are headed for hell to burn there forever for the sin of not believing exactly as you do...
As I see it, the "once saved always saved" OSAS doctrine (which apparently originated in 1689) teaches that the commandments and ordinances of God are not important and can be safely ignored. Various verses from the bible are cited and interpreted by OSAS proponents such as yourself to support that doctrine. But other verses that clearly refute it are ignored or spun to fit what a group of arm of flesh scholars came up with.
Below are only two of a huge number of verses from scripture that as I see it plainly and clearly expose OSAS for what it is, an unbiblical invention of scholars, and one with the potential to deceive and deprive of their eternal salvation sincere Christians who heed the careless carnal call of OSAS, think they are saved already regardless of what they do, and ignore God's commandments.
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20: 12
As I've stated many times on different threads, unbelievers will appear before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgement as shown in Revelation 20:11-15. They are there because they rejected the work of Christ on the Cross. Since Christ paid the penalty for all sin, sin cannot be judged again. And so, the unbeliever is standing before Christ at the Throne judgment, and since he rejected work of Christ, and since his sins were already judged, he is therefore condemned on the basis of his works. The unbeliever is depending on his own works to save him, and God rejects those works and sends the unbeliever off into the lake of fire.
Believers will never appear at the Great White Throne judgment. It is for unbelievers only.
Quote:
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." Titus 1: 16
Titus 3:5 He saved us not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Here is what God thinks of human good.
Isa. 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment.
Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived fom the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.
You are not saved by works and you do not maintain your salvation by works.
No man can undo the work of Christ on the Cross. No one can lose their salvation.
As I've stated many times on different threads, unbelievers will appear before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgement as shown in Revelation 20:11-15. They are there because they rejected the work of Christ on the Cross. Since Christ paid the penalty for all sin, sin cannot be judged again. And so, the unbeliever is standing before Christ at the Throne judgment, and since he rejected work of Christ, and since his sins were already judged, he is therefore condemned on the basis of his works. The unbeliever is depending on his own works to save him, and God rejects those works and sends the unbeliever off into the lake of fire.
Believers will never appear at the Great White Throne judgment. It is for unbelievers only.
How very convenient, and how typical of scholars and their devotees to spin scriptures that don't fit in with their theories into something else while still proclaiming that the few that do agree with them are "perfectly clear".
Here's your reference in the King James version:
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20: 11-15
To me that reads that everyone (both small and great) will be subject to a final judgment. It does NOT support your belief that apparently you and your pastor and maybe a few others have already during your lifetime been declared perfect and no longer subject to God's judgments regardless of how poorly you keep His commandments.
How can those billions of God's children over the ages who never were taught about the Judeo-Christian God or Jesus Christ have rejected the work of Christ?
The sacrifices of the Old Testament were required by God in that they were a type, or a picture of the coming Messiah, which for them was still future. Salvation was always by faith in the Messiah as He was presented to them. But in those previous dispensations, the sacrifices portrayed in a very vivid and bloody way, the atoning work that would one day be accomplished at the Cross. As Christ had not gone to the Cross yet and actually paid the penalty for sin, the sacrifices were for the purpose of providing a temporary covering for sins. Whereas when Christ finally did go to the Cross, our sins weren't merely covered, they were paid for in full by Him. The animal sacrifices merely pointed to the still to come, actual sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.
Regarding Cain and Abel's sacrifice's; the reason that Cain's sacrifice was rejected was because it was a sacrifice of fruits and vegitables and represented human works. The tilling of the fields to produce grain. Man's efforts. God always rejects human good works. On the other hand, Abel's sacrifice was an animal sacrifice, a blood sacrifice, and pictured the sacrifice that Christ would one day make on the Cross. Cain's sacrifice represented human works, and Abel's sacrifice represented God's grace.
There were various types of sacrifices for different purposes. You can research them if you wish.
Although different dispensations bring about different ways in which God administers His plan for man, salvation has always been by grace, through faith in Christ as He was known to those of a particular dispensation.
That's all quite impressive in relation to the symbolism, but you missed the point. They were both judged by the "fruits" of their labors (works) that were sacrificed.
How very convenient, and how typical of scholars and their devotees to spin scriptures that don't fit in with their theories into something else while still proclaiming that the few that do agree with them are "perfectly clear".
Here's your reference in the King James version:
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20: 11-15
To me that reads that everyone (both small and great) will be subject to a final judgment. It does NOT support your belief that apparently you and your pastor and maybe a few others have already during your lifetime been declared perfect and no longer subject to God's judgments regardless of how poorly you keep His commandments.
How can those billions of God's children over the ages who never were taught about the Judeo-Christian God or Jesus Christ have rejected the work of Christ?
The 'great and the small' covers unbelievers from all walks of life. It doesn't matter what your station in life was. If you die without believing in Christ you will spend all eternity in the lake of fire. The Great White Throne Judgment is for unbelievers only. Everyone who appears at the Great White Throne is an unbeliever and will be cast into the lake of fire. This is clearly revealed in the Bible.
Believers stand before Christ at a different judgment. The Bema Seat of Christ. This is for the purpose of evaluating the believers production during his life on earth. Works that are found to be wood, hay, and stubble, are burned up. Works that are found to be gold, silver, ad precious stones are rewardable. This Bema Seat Judgment takes place following the rapture of the church, which terminates the church age.
The God who created the universe has the ability to get the Gospel to anyone, no matter where they are on this earth. If upon reaching a point when they can conceive of a supreme being, a person desires to know more about the nature of this supreme being, then God will move heaven and earth to get the Gospel to that person. In eternity past, God knew everyone who would be interested in finding out something about the nature of this supreme being he had conceived of, and He made provision for those people to receive the Gospel. I'm saying that when a person gets old enough to conceive of a 'God', and they want to know something of this 'God', then God will get the Gospel to that person. At that point, it is up to the person to either believe or reject what they understand regarding the Gospel.
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