What To Do After The Rapture Takes Place (believing, dogma, praying)

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by Gideon7620

Gideon said, Don't you get it; there is no such thing as a pre-tribulation coming or rapture. It is found nowhere in scripture. Could you expound on that for us and show us precisely where you see it. Be forewarned, it is nowhere. Pre-tribulationism is a false doctrine created in modern age by Darby, Scofield, the illuminati and the Jesuits. It can be found nowhere, I repeat nowhere in scripture. Satan has deceived many with this heresy. If you really think it is there, show us where so we can teach you it is not so.

Listen here, "gideon said".......I'm telling you that there IS scriptural support for a pre-tribulation rapture and I do not appreciate your condescending and superior attitude or the fact that you are saying it is from Satan and that it's heresy. The only heresy going on is the stuff you are spewing all over the place.

If you don't believe in the Rapture, then fine, your choice. I guess we'll just see, won't we? I don't need to defend anything to you or anyone else with scripture, been there, done that. If you want to know the scriptures that support the Rapture then read the many threads about the Rapture. Do your own research. You just want to argue and name call, this isn't about anything other than that.

STOP LITTERING MY THREAD WITH YOUR "COPY AND PASTE" GARBAGE!!!

[Ilene Wright]

Here's all the scripture you need. If you had read the entire thread then you would have seen where I posted this already.

End Time Bible Prophecy, Rapture of His Bride.

Notice: 1 John 3:2 Shares We the sons of God, He shall appear, We shall see him as he is.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are (we the sons of God) and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that, when (he shall appear) we shall be like him, for (we shall see him as he is)

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(Watch ye) therefore,

Bride of Christ

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee (from) the (hour (Greek, hora- season) of (temptation (Greek, peirasmos- adversity or tribulation) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The prerequisite to receiving the promise in this scripture is to patiently keep His Word or put another way, to be a consistent doer of the Word, full of faith!

There are many wonderful benefits to being the Bride, but the one that is mentioned in the scripture Revelation 3:10 certainly will be a welcome blessing.

The word (From) in Greek is as "out of" (Greek word, ek) Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from.

Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from

http://cf.blb.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=1537&version=KJV

Saved Now, and From(out of) The Tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and (keep you (from) evil. AMEN.

Psalm 121:7-8
The LORD shall preserve (thee (from) all) evil: he shall preserve thy soul. The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.AMEN.

2 Timothy 4:18
And (the Lord shall deliver me (from) every) evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. AMEN.

Jesus Christ promises to keep us "from" or as the Greek word reads, "out of" the season of tribulation that is about to come upon the whole world to try all those that are left behind to dwell upon the earth.
----------------------------------------------------------
(Watch ye) therefore,

worthy to (escape) all these things that shall come to pass,

(escape)as Rapture

Luke 21:34-36
(And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares)

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

(36Watch ye) therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to (escape) all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

(Escape) Genesis 19:22, Psalm 71:2 (The snare is broken, Escaped Psalm 124:7-8)

king Jesus Christ, Warned in this prophecy, Take heed to yourselves, lest at anytime your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting (overindulgence)and drunkenness, and the cares of this life, so that day come upon you unawares.(Watch ye) therefore, and (pray always) that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things .

(Luke 21:34-36) Here, in praying always, it is the Christians that are instructed to be sober, and not to be overtaken with overindulgence, and the cares of this life, not just the unbeliever (1 Thessalonians 5:6-8) First, note that unbelievers do not believe.

Secondly, unbelievers do not pray,and Worship God! nor will they pray always, and Watch which is an explicit Christian directive for saved Christians to be Watching in preparation for King Jesus Christ! Lest That Day overtake them unawares.

We must continue to share, and teach the Powerful Gospel with anyone, and everyone at all Times!

One must remember to Pray the Christian, Back sliders, Lukewarm (Revelation 3:16) and the unbelievers need to Repent (Acts 3:19) Wake up (Romans 13:11-14) Abide in Him (1 John 2:28-29) and Obey (Hebrews 5:9)

Also we must continue to share, and teach that the Christians need to be Wise, As shared in (Proverbs 21:20) and Wake up (Romans 13:11-14) Watch for Jesus Christ (Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, Revelation 3:3) and Abide (1 John 2:28-29)

One must walk with God at all Times! Abide, Dabaq(Hebrew)

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(Watching) for our Blessed Hope,

(Watching) for our Blessed Hope, Jesus Christ to Rapture us to the New Jerusalem(Heaven) (Blessed) are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find (watching) as shared in Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, and Revelation 16:15 We are told many Times in the Bible to WATCH, and Notice Revelation 3:3 Shares those who are not Watching, He will come like a Thief. Now is the Time to Watch for King Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing! Infact if you Love his Appearing (Rapture) you will receive a Special Crown! as Shared in 2 Timothy 4:8

Those that, looketh not for him... As those who are not Watching, and abiding,

My lord delayeth his coming, As those who are not Watching, and abiding, and As those who are not Pre-trib, Pre tribulation rapture(Rapture before the Tribulation)


I Watch, and Abide in King Jesus Christ.AMEN.


The WISE, and The FOOLISH (Be WISE)

Shared from Matthew 24:42-51, and Luke 12:42-46

Matthew 24:45-46 faithful and wise servant, Blessed is that servant(WISE) The WISE WATCH, and Abide.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, (My lord delayeth his coming (FOOLISH)

Matthew 24:50 (looketh not for him) and in an hour that he is not aware of (FOOLISH)

Luke 12:42-43 faithful and wise servant, Blessed is that servant (WISE) The WISE WATCH, and Abide.

Luke 12:45-46 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart (My lord delayeth his coming (FOOLISH)

Luke 12:46 looketh not for him) and in an hour that he is not aware of (FOOLISH)

Now is the Time to WATCH for the Lord Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing!

Infact if you Love his Appearing you will receive a Special Crown!

2 Timothy 4:8

Henceforth there is laid up for me a (crown) of righteousness) which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only but (unto all them also that love his appearing)

Revelation 3:11

(Behold,I come quickly)
hold that fast which thou hast, (that no man take thy (crown)

Watch, and Abide in King Jesus Christ.

Titus 2:13 Keep your Blessed HOPE, (that no man take thy (crown)

Take a stand in what you believe Pre-trib, Pre tribulation rapture(Rapture before the Tribulation)

Titus 2:13 (Looking) for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

Always Keep Looking, Watching for King Jesus Christ.

*To read more about the Bride of Christ! Visit Rapture Prophecy, and read the webpage called(Rapture of his Bride) Rapture prophecy

http://www.raptureprophecy.com

Also the webpage called(Remember Lot's Wife) has been updated, and it's an interesting read, backed by scripture.
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Saved After the Rapture, But Oh the Cost!

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is the grand event for the espoused bride of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There will be millions of lukewarm, indifferent, and carnal people that will miss this glorious moment.

[Verna Perry]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

Listen here, "gideon said".......I'm telling you that there IS scriptural support for a pre-tribulation rapture and I do not appreciate your condescending and superior attitude or the fact that you are saying it is from Satan and that it's heresy. The only heresy going on is the stuff you are spewing all over the place.

If you don't believe in the Rapture, then fine, your choice. I guess we'll just see, won't we? I don't need to defend anything to you or anyone else with scripture, been there, done that. If you want to know the scriptures that support the Rapture then read the many threads about the Rapture. Do your own research. You just want to argue and name call, this isn't about anything other than that.

STOP LITTERING MY THREAD WITH YOUR "COPY AND PASTE" GARBAGE!!!

Amen! Exactly what I told him on my thread!

[Gideon7620]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

Listen here, "gideon said".......I'm telling you that there IS scriptural support for a pre-tribulation rapture and I do not appreciate your condescending and superior attitude or the fact that you are saying it is from Satan and that it's heresy. The only heresy going on is the stuff you are spewing all over the place.

If you don't believe in the Rapture, then fine, your choice. I guess we'll just see, won't we? I don't need to defend anything to you or anyone else with scripture, been there, done that. If you want to know the scriptures that support the Rapture then read the many threads about the Rapture. Do your own research. You just want to argue and name call, this isn't about anything other than that.

STOP LITTERING MY THREAD WITH YOUR "COPY AND PASTE" GARBAGE!!!

Gideon said, Could you kindly show us word for word, line for line, precept upon precept where you see this in scripture or in an expository fashion. I assure you it is not there, and truly there is no light way to put it, besides it is heresy. I have yet to see anyone demonstrate the appearance or fact of a pre-tribulation rapture in scripture. No one has done it successfully; they apply meanings to words that are inaccurate and cherry pick verses taking them out of context to satisfy their egos. I must be brutally honest with you. I share a strong concern for those caught in heresy. Darby, Scofield, the Jesuits, and the illuminati have brought this into our churches and it has been destructive to the cause of Christ. Jesus cannot come at any moment; scripture tells us certain prophecies must be fulfilled, which have not been. Finally, Jesus only returns once, at the end of the Great Tribulation to Judge the world and kings of the earth in all their wickedness and to reign with an immortalized bride, whom becomes immortal at his return on the last day or when the last, seventh trumpet sounds.


14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

[Gideon7620]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

Here's all the scripture you need. If you had read the entire thread then you would have seen where I posted this already.

End Time Bible Prophecy, Rapture of His Bride.

Notice: 1 John 3:2 Shares We the sons of God, He shall appear, We shall see him as he is.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are (we the sons of God) and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that, when (he shall appear) we shall be like him, for (we shall see him as he is)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
(Watch ye) therefore,

Bride of Christ

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee (from) the (hour (Greek, hora- season) of (temptation (Greek, peirasmos- adversity or tribulation) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The prerequisite to receiving the promise in this scripture is to patiently keep His Word or put another way, to be a consistent doer of the Word, full of faith!

There are many wonderful benefits to being the Bride, but the one that is mentioned in the scripture Revelation 3:10 certainly will be a welcome blessing.

The word (From) in Greek is as "out of" (Greek word, ek) Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from.

Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from

http://cf.blb.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=1537&version=KJV

Saved Now, and From(out of) The Tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and (keep you (from) evil. AMEN.

Psalm 121:7-8
The LORD shall preserve (thee (from) all) evil: he shall preserve thy soul. The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.AMEN.

2 Timothy 4:18
And (the Lord shall deliver me (from) every) evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. AMEN.

Jesus Christ promises to keep us "from" or as the Greek word reads, "out of" the season of tribulation that is about to come upon the whole world to try all those that are left behind to dwell upon the earth.
----------------------------------------------------------
(Watch ye) therefore,

worthy to (escape) all these things that shall come to pass,

(escape)as Rapture

Luke 21:34-36
(And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares)

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

(36Watch ye) therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to (escape) all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

(Escape) Genesis 19:22, Psalm 71:2 (The snare is broken, Escaped Psalm 124:7-8)

king Jesus Christ, Warned in this prophecy, Take heed to yourselves, lest at anytime your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting (overindulgence)and drunkenness, and the cares of this life, so that day come upon you unawares.(Watch ye) therefore, and (pray always) that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things .

(Luke 21:34-36) Here, in praying always, it is the Christians that are instructed to be sober, and not to be overtaken with overindulgence, and the cares of this life, not just the unbeliever (1 Thessalonians 5:6-8) First, note that unbelievers do not believe.

Secondly, unbelievers do not pray,and Worship God! nor will they pray always, and Watch which is an explicit Christian directive for saved Christians to be Watching in preparation for King Jesus Christ! Lest That Day overtake them unawares.

We must continue to share, and teach the Powerful Gospel with anyone, and everyone at all Times!

One must remember to Pray the Christian, Back sliders, Lukewarm (Revelation 3:16) and the unbelievers need to Repent (Acts 3:19) Wake up (Romans 13:11-14) Abide in Him (1 John 2:28-29) and Obey (Hebrews 5:9)

Also we must continue to share, and teach that the Christians need to be Wise, As shared in (Proverbs 21:20) and Wake up (Romans 13:11-14) Watch for Jesus Christ (Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, Revelation 3:3) and Abide (1 John 2:28-29)

One must walk with God at all Times! Abide, Dabaq(Hebrew)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
(Watching) for our Blessed Hope,

(Watching) for our Blessed Hope, Jesus Christ to Rapture us to the New Jerusalem(Heaven) (Blessed) are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find (watching) as shared in Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, and Revelation 16:15 We are told many Times in the Bible to WATCH, and Notice Revelation 3:3 Shares those who are not Watching, He will come like a Thief. Now is the Time to Watch for King Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing! Infact if you Love his Appearing (Rapture) you will receive a Special Crown! as Shared in 2 Timothy 4:8

Those that, looketh not for him... As those who are not Watching, and abiding,

My lord delayeth his coming, As those who are not Watching, and abiding, and As those who are not Pre-trib, Pre tribulation rapture(Rapture before the Tribulation)


I Watch, and Abide in King Jesus Christ.AMEN.


The WISE, and The FOOLISH (Be WISE)

Shared from Matthew 24:42-51, and Luke 12:42-46

Matthew 24:45-46 faithful and wise servant, Blessed is that servant(WISE) The WISE WATCH, and Abide.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, (My lord delayeth his coming (FOOLISH)

Matthew 24:50 (looketh not for him) and in an hour that he is not aware of (FOOLISH)

Luke 12:42-43 faithful and wise servant, Blessed is that servant (WISE) The WISE WATCH, and Abide.

Luke 12:45-46 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart (My lord delayeth his coming (FOOLISH)

Luke 12:46 looketh not for him) and in an hour that he is not aware of (FOOLISH)

Now is the Time to WATCH for the Lord Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing!

Infact if you Love his Appearing you will receive a Special Crown!

2 Timothy 4:8

Henceforth there is laid up for me a (crown) of righteousness) which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only but (unto all them also that love his appearing)

Revelation 3:11

(Behold,I come quickly)
hold that fast which thou hast, (that no man take thy (crown)

Watch, and Abide in King Jesus Christ.

Titus 2:13 Keep your Blessed HOPE, (that no man take thy (crown)

Take a stand in what you believe Pre-trib, Pre tribulation rapture(Rapture before the Tribulation)

Titus 2:13 (Looking) for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

Always Keep Looking, Watching for King Jesus Christ.

*To read more about the Bride of Christ! Visit Rapture Prophecy, and read the webpage called(Rapture of his Bride) Rapture prophecy

http://www.raptureprophecy.com

Also the webpage called(Remember Lot's Wife) has been updated, and it's an interesting read, backed by scripture.
------------------------------------------------------------

Saved After the Rapture, But Oh the Cost!

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is the grand event for the espoused bride of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There will be millions of lukewarm, indifferent, and carnal people that will miss this glorious moment.

Gideon said, this is a perfect example of how they cherry pick verses in scripture, as Revelation 3:10 and try to build their precepts upon this false doctrine. I will cover Revelation 3:10 in "The Blessed Hope of the Believers" thread after Revelation 6 and 7, or after the sixth seal is covered. For starters, The word "Horas" in the Greek here means a literal hour and not a season. The temptation comes to those whom dwell on the earth, whose names are not written in the Lamb"s book of life. Not only do they take verses as this one out of context, grossly, but they further ignore all the other supportive verses in scriptures that clearly demonstrate, prove,dipict, and demand a post- tribulation rapture. All they can do is cherry pick verses, misconstrue their meanings, ingore the facts as stated in scritpure and tell you there are two second comings. Yet they can not show two comings. Where does it say in scripture, the hour of temptation is the rapture of saints going up and the ones left behind are being tortured by God's wrath? Nowhere. The scriptures are diametrically opposed to this dogma created by Darby and Scofield. God's wrath is clearly at the end of the GT, while Satan's is during and last 3.5 years or time or during the GT.

Certainly the Lord preserves us, "our souls" from Evil, but he does not keep us from Troubles, tribulation, persecution and trials or even martyrdom. Try telling Paul, Peter, Samuel, Jeremiah, Daniel, or any other saint in scripture that saw perecution that. As a matter of fact II Thes 1 tells us we shall have tribulation until Christ returns in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that persecute us. THere is nothing hidden or secret about Jesus returning in flaming fire with His angels to judge them that trouble and persecute us. So in essence what scripture clearly tells us is that the persectution will continue until the end of the Great Tribulation or when Christ is revealed.

The Obvious Error of Pre-Tribulationism In II Thes 1
The Obvious Misrepresentation of Words By Pretrbulationists

Here in this chapter we see a very obvious flop-up of words by the pre-trib camp. Here Paul tells the believers that their faith has grown exceedingly. We know how faith comes about: first we know that faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I believe God applies that individually and differently in our lives but with the same basic technique. What may build faith in me may seem unacceptable to others; I am not saying that reading the word of God does not do this, but rather where and how we read the word may differ from person to person. God has given each a master plan for their lives to build one's faith. We need be careful in being judgmental of others lives and how God works individually with people; God speaks to man or a woman individually. So tribulation works patience and hope. If we have trouble or tribulations this is good as we have a need to developed hope in order to overcome the troubles or tribulation. As God speaks and delivers us from whatever trouble we may encounter, we gain faith in God to carry us through anything. Hence tribulation brought on by Satan is a good thing God allows to build our faith.

Yet the pre-tribulation notion or reasoning is the opposite of this philosophy; it carries and escapist ideology with it. They think we are to escape Satan's wrath, troubles, and persecution and conclude falsely that it is God's wrath. Further, they have misrepresented it and titled it as such. This chapter 1 or II Thessalonians teaches us the opposite of what they proclaim as truth, as does the entire Bible. Nowhere in scripture does God tell us He will deliver us from the tribulation the enemy brings upon us. The bible tells us the opposite in that troubles, trials and tribulation build are hope and faith. God allows the trials and tribulation in our lives to build stronger soldiers for his command, soldiers that will not be intimidated by Satan's tribulations or his wrath he brings against those that love God. The escapist mentality is seen in a wishful, pre-tribulation rapture, not seen in scripture.

Why does Paul tell them their faith has grown exceedingly? The answer is simple. Paul knows they have suffered tribulation and he knows and sees the end result of that tribulation they suffer. Paul also knows that the end result of that is spiritual growth. He wrote about it regularly to teach us. So how in the world can they come up with the opposite of what is taught in scripture, through and through. The answer is found in II Thes 2; they have a love for unrighteousness in some cases or have been deceived. Some will find truth eventually as the Spirit will bear truth to them; others will have a love for error, inevitably and will never find the truth. Paul has clearly told us this in II Thes 2 if you recall.

As we will see, not only does this chapter 1 of II Thes further debunk the pre-tribulation heresy, but it also gives much hope to the saint suffering troubles and persecutions from its perpitrators. God does not lie, and we will see how they have taken this chapter also way out of context. Unto the saint, the trouble, though painful, are good. We will now cover the remaining portion of this chapter in detail.


Romans 5
3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

James 1

3Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Galatians 5

6b but faith which worketh by love.





3We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Pre-tribulationists Obvious Errors in Translation of Words

Gideon said,
Beginning in verse 4 we see thilpis the Greek word for tribulation. It means an experience that tests one's endurance, patience and faith. The suffering God allows the church to go through is allowed by God to test them of their endurance, patience and faith. Paul glories or speaks proudly of the church of Thessalonica in all the other churches because he is admiring their faith which is demonstrated by their endurance in tribulations and persecutions. That is a precisely what verse 4 says.

Verse 5 tells us that God's allowance of these troubles (persecutions and tribulations) is a manifested token of God's righteous Judgment that shall come against the ungodly bringing this trouble, the persecution to the church. He further tells us that the endurance of this affliction is a manifestation of their salvation. In other words, since they can endure it; it is proof they are saved. In opposite retrospect, had they not endured, they obviously are not part of God's kingdom. Do not misunderstand these statements; what I am not saying is that this endurance of tribulation saves them, but rather it is proof they are saved. The unsaved simply will not endure. This becomes clearer in the following verses.

In verse 6 we see that God will recompense judgment on those that trouble the church. He will recompense tribulation on our persecutor. The timing of the recompense brought against our enemies is crucial to the post-tribulation fact. Further the time frame the church is to endure the tribulation is more proof of the post-tribulation fact as we will see.

In verse seven we see the opposite of what is taught by pre-tribulationists to be true. The rest from persecution does not occur until the Lord Jesus is revealed. Yet they, the pre-tribulationists claim it comes seven years earlier in a secret, hidden, nowhere mentioned in scripture rapture that flies them away. Now reading this by itself does not strike the meaning so strongly, until the word revealed is translated. The word revealed comes from the Greek word apokolypcia. The word, "Apocalypse," is the disclosure and "revelation of Christ when he appears in the fullness of his power". This is very obviously the word being used. It snuffs out the claim to a pre-tribulation return of Christ here. Yet, they claim it is here in II Thes 1. In other word, while the meanings of the words here tells us Jesus is making his disclosure and revelation of power with his apokolypcia here; the pre-tribulationists camps continue to falsely claim this is a secret mysterious coming no one knows about and that none will see. Here we see the same event about to occur in Revelation 11.



[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


We see verses 8 and 9 telling us the same things also. There is absolutely nothing secret about Jesus coming back with angels in flaming fire, taking vengeance on those that trouble us until the time of his revelation; the vengeance is poured out in flaming fire on those that obeyed not the Gospel of his Word; who also know not God or simply are not his children. The most important thing to notice is the rest from the persecution and troubles does not occur until Jesus is revealed or until his apokolypcia,which occurs at the end of the GT. This debunks the pretribulation rapture entirely. In summary, what it means is that Jesus will return at the end of the Great Tribulation to judge them that persecute us until the end, when he returns; further, he returns in flaming fire, with His mighty angels at the end of the GT to give us rest from the troubles that are brought on by the persecutors. The is absolutely nothing secret, hidden, or unknown about that. God pours his wrath on them in that day.

This is very obviously the wrath of God. God's wrath comes at the end of the GT and not during. The pretribulation camp makes a gross error in calling Satan's wrath which occurs during the tribulation, God's wrath, which occurs at the end of the GT. Satan and his minions persecuting the church does not constitute the wrath of God. God's wrath comes when Jesus is revealed, in flaming fire taking vengeance on the churches enemies, as depicted in verses 8 and 9.

These that trouble us until the end of the GT, shall be punishes with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and the Glory of his power. The Glory of this power is the power of the resurrection. While we receive rest in the resurrection of his likeness, they the wicked shall be punished in the Lake of fire. On that day Christ shall be glorified because we believed everything Paul wrote to us. We are glorified as we are transformed into his likeness on that day. It is that simple. Why do they complicate this so much. THe answer is they refuse to receive the love of the truth. They have pleasure in unrighteousness or they have pleasure in doctrinal errors. Some of these are not of us and time will reveal that; God will send them damnation as seen in II Thess 2 for not receiving the love of the truth, but rather they trusted in men's vain traditions.

Now let's see more about the coming of Jesus, in the terminology. Remember we mentioned in II Thes 2 that his coming, or Parousia, meant his arrival. NOW Let’s cover another word to sort of wrap up II Thes 1 and 2. The other word is epiphany. We see the word coming in the Greek can also represent his epiphany or brilliant Shekinah, as the sun shines... This word epiphany is seen in the end of the chapter in verse 8.


1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming (parousia) or arrival of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him; this verse merely means his arrival while our gathering together unto him is the resurrection of the dead and translation of the living to meet the Lord in the air.

In verse 8 we see the word epiphany being used. What is says is that the brilliant Shekinah or sun like glow of Christ returning or of his coming (epiphany) will destroy Satan. This is the blazing fire we see in II Thes 1 that destroys the wicked one, and wicked ones whom follow Satan and his lies. In other words it is the same event being described with different details. God does this often throughout scripture. Pre-tribulationism has made a great error in calling the two descriptions of the obvious same event two separate events. So there is nothing secret or hidden with Jesus returning as in fire to destroy his enemies. That is a very powerful statement. We must remember our God is a consuming fire that hates evil, sin, and evil doers with a consuming passion. Deu 4:24 says, For the LORD thy God [is] a consuming fire, [even] a jealous God.

Here are both descriptions of the same event being describe with different details. Here we see angels also, while in II Thes 2 we are only told his fire like epiphany will destroy Satan.
The same event in II Thes 1
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming (epiphany).

Now we can continue to build the bridge that will also connect I Thes with II Thes to prove they are exactly the same event being described with different details of that single event. There are several words to do this, but we will focus on two or three especially. The last word we will bring up is "apentesis..." This is a very important word as we will see.

So far what we have learned is the epiphany, parousia, and the revelation or apokolypcia are all the same single event. It can be summarized as this: Christ's arival or Parousia, will be an out shining brilliance and fire or epiphany, that will destroy Satan and the evil ones, at his revelation or apokolypcia or on the day His wrath is poured on the wicked of mankind, at the end of the Great Tribulation. There is no dividing of the event, it is one single event in which we see all his attributes previously prophecied come to fruition, at his revelation, in which he returns with all his power and glorious splendor to glorify the saints and destroy the wicked. The saints will finally rest from them that trouble them when Jesus is revealed or at his epiphany and apokolypcia at the end of the GT, not seven years earlier as falsely proclaimed by the pre-tribualtion camp.

[blkvelvet]

you can be skeptical all you want by the word says one day every knee shall bow and tounge confess and that day will come i promise. you can either be a fool and let the word pass you by or you can believe and one day live in eternal life and not a firey pit. im glad for the negative comments and hope that you have also watched the video. that would mean when it does happen you all can be the ones to help those who havent or simply know for your own souls. God bless and forgive you for you know not what you are doing.

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by blkvelvet

you can be skeptical all you want by the word says one day every knee shall bow and tounge confess and that day will come i promise. you can either be a fool and let the word pass you by or you can believe and one day live in eternal life and not a firey pit. im glad for the negative comments and hope that you have also watched the video. that would mean when it does happen you all can be the ones to help those who havent or simply know for your own souls. God bless and forgive you for you know not what you are doing.

Amen!!

[Ilene Wright]

Here's a good article written by Terry James from www.raptureready.com that is worth a read.

www.raptureready.com/terry/rapturenear.html

Excerpt/snippet:

"How near do you think the rapture might be?" This or similar questions issue from people, both believers in Christ and nonbelievers. The queries come during question-and-answer sessions at prophecy conferences, and from interviewers such as my History Channel interviewer last June during filming for a series of documentaries on prophecy (The Nostrodamus Effect).
Foreboding feelings
Despite innate skepticism, even within believers, one senses that there flows just beneath the surface of decorum in posing the question a visceral trepidation that there will be such a thing as "the rapture." While those who attend prophecy conferences and secular media types seem genuinely to want an opinion on how near the rapture is, there is almost zero interest in that great event within Christ's church in general. This singular reality is, by itself, a factor worth examination while contemplating the question: "How near do you think the rapture might be?" More about that in due course."

[Ilene Wright]

Here's another good article:

www.raptureready.com/soap/wood2.html

"The Case for Pre-Tribulation Rapture"

[.sparrow.]

Originally Posted by blkvelvet

you can be skeptical all you want by the word says one day every knee shall bow and tounge confess and that day will come i promise. .

Well, you are right about that. Every tongue WILL confess... and every knee will bow under the weight of HIS love.

He is the GOOD SHEPHERD. Who will leave the 99 to find the *ONE* that strays, ONE that is lost.

Jesus Christ is the saviour of all mankind.

Hallelujah.

Not one will be lost.
NO. NOT ONE.

peace.