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Old 12-06-2009, 01:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Here's another good article:

www.raptureready.com/soap/wood2.html

"The Case for Pre-Tribulation Rapture"
And also Ilene, there's;

Imminency

This particular section of the raptureready website puts the lie to the claim of the post Tribulational crowd that the pre-Tribulational rapture is the invention of Darby and Scofield. It is a matter of record that there were those in the early church who acknowledged the imminency of our Lord's return .

And just to make the point, the imminency of the rapture requires that the rapture be pre-Tribulational. Imminent means that it can happen at any moment. There is nothing that must occur before the rapture. Therefore since the events of the Tribulation are known, if the rapture took place after the Tribulation, then it wouldn't be imminent. If someone doesn't accept this as logical, then there is no point in even trying to reason with them.

Here is what was written in Pseudo-Ephraem (est. time of writing between 374-627 A.D) ''All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins.''

There are others listed in the link that was provided.

This alone shows that the pre-Tribulational rapture was recognized far earlier than Darby and Scofield, who unfortunately are targets of character assassinaton by some in the post tribulational crowd who feel the need to resort to that in an attempt to bolster their point of view. Sad.

When it comes down to it, it is what the Bible itself says about the rapture that matters. And it says a lot.

For instance, and I know that you already listed this verse, but to bring out a point, Rev 3:10 says,'' Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to those who dwell upon the earth.''

This was addressed to the church at Philadelphia but is intended for the entire church. It doesn't simply say that the church is kept from testing, it says that the church is kept from the 'hour' of testing. The church is kept from the timeframe in which the testing takes place. The entire seven year period of the Tribulation.

 
Old 12-06-2009, 03:01 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Just because my understanding of the "2nd Coming" is different from yours, doesn't make your understanding the truth any more than it does mine.
Another piece of wisdom brought to you by "Sola Scriptura R Us".
 
Old 12-06-2009, 04:08 AM
 
150 posts, read 180,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkvelvet View Post
you can be skeptical all you want by the word says one day every knee shall bow and tounge confess and that day will come i promise. you can either be a fool and let the word pass you by or you can believe and one day live in eternal life and not a firey pit. im glad for the negative comments and hope that you have also watched the video. that would mean when it does happen you all can be the ones to help those who havent or simply know for your own souls. God bless and forgive you for you know not what you are doing.

Myself and others are only skeptics of a [pre-tribulation rapture] I'm ready,watching, and praying for the return of Jesus to gather the wheat into His Barn.

The pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is FALSE and is leading many down the wrong road.
There are many examples of God's plan throughout the Bible and none of them include a pre-tribulation rapture.
Many "so called" prophecy experts have made millions off of people's unwillingness to seriously study the scriptures.
I observed numerous co-workers and lunch time who spent hours reading the "Left Behind" series but never opened their Bible.No wonder they have been sucked into the the False doctrine of the so called "pre-tribulation rapture".
 
Old 12-06-2009, 08:57 AM
 
392 posts, read 330,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Here's a good article written by Terry James from www.raptureready.com that is worth a read.

www.raptureready.com/terry/rapturenear.html

Excerpt/snippet:

"How near do you think the rapture might be?" This or similar questions issue from people, both believers in Christ and nonbelievers. The queries come during question-and-answer sessions at prophecy conferences, and from interviewers such as my History Channel interviewer last June during filming for a series of documentaries on prophecy (The Nostrodamus Effect).
Foreboding feelings
Despite innate skepticism, even within believers, one senses that there flows just beneath the surface of decorum in posing the question a visceral trepidation that there will be such a thing as "the rapture." While those who attend prophecy conferences and secular media types seem genuinely to want an opinion on how near the rapture is, there is almost zero interest in that great event within Christ's church in general. This singular reality is, by itself, a factor worth examination while contemplating the question: "How near do you think the rapture might be?" More about that in due course."
Gideon said I can assure you one thing. When the NWO does arrive, you will find yourself not ruptured and here on earth. One may even find God's strong delusion upon them, depending upon their salvation status. Further, as Satan begins to do his evil work, we will still find ourselves here; no one is flying anywhere. We will all remain here, as the body of Christ, until the last day or until the end of the Great Tribulation. There will be no resurrection until the last day nor is there a rapture until the last day when the last angel sounds his trumpet. Pre-tribulationism is clearly heresy, and I would hope that more would realize this. Christ begins his reign on earth on the last day. Finally the wicked are judged on the last day. To deny this is clearly to deny what is written clearly in the word. God is not going to fly anyone away through some pre-tribulation rapture, pure dogma.



We see all scripture accounts place the ressurection of the saints on the last day of the GT.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Jhn 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. Jhn 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Jhn 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Jhn 7:37In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. Jhn 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jhn 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.



50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The last trumpet blown on the last day, brings in the millenium, resurrection of the saints, and Christ's eternal reign. Jesus is crowned King of Kings, here on earth and begins to reign with his saints.


Time ends on the last day, when the seventh angel sounds and the mystery of immortalization is now solved as the servants of God are immortalized. Paul showed us the mystery in I Corinthians 15, but it remains a mytery to us because we still do not know what it is like to be immortal. We know we shall be immortal, but we do not know what it is like to be immortal (unfamiliararity with immortality is the mystery).

5And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


The Seventh Trumpet

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here we see the wicked judged, the dead servant rising to be rewarded, Christ reigns on earth etc.

Last edited by Gideon7620; 12-06-2009 at 09:12 AM..
 
Old 12-06-2009, 09:24 AM
 
392 posts, read 330,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riceweevil View Post
Myself and others are only skeptics of a [pre-tribulation rapture] I'm ready,watching, and praying for the return of Jesus to gather the wheat into His Barn.

The pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is FALSE and is leading many down the wrong road.
There are many examples of God's plan throughout the Bible and none of them include a pre-tribulation rapture.
Many "so called" prophecy experts have made millions off of people's unwillingness to seriously study the scriptures.
I observed numerous co-workers and lunch time who spent hours reading the "Left Behind" series but never opened their Bible.No wonder they have been sucked into the the False doctrine of the so called "pre-tribulation rapture".
Gideon said,
I would like to know what you are watching for as pre-tribulationism means Christ's coming can be at any moment? The word "watch" in the Greek, does not mean what you imply. So are you going to stay up all through the nights and days until Jesus comes? For you can not watch the signs of the times because there in no prequailfying signs for Jesus to return according to pre-tribulationism. According to the dogma, Jesus could have come anytime after he ascended with no signs to point to his coming. Hence they are suppose to watch all night and day for his coming since he ascended. Not sleeping can kill anyone; it is deadly.

Last edited by Gideon7620; 12-06-2009 at 10:19 AM..
 
Old 12-06-2009, 09:51 AM
 
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There will be no rapture
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:16 AM
 
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THE Post Tribulation RAPTURE IN REVELATION 6:1-17, 7:9-17 Just as Paul follows the end-times sequence which the Lord gives in Matthew's Olivet Discourse, so do the seals in the book of the Revelation take the same pattern. The same events are describe in all three instances. The beginning birth pang of false Christs (Matt 24:5) is represented in the first seal. The false Christ begins his reign by conquering nations (Rev. 6:2). Could this be America? The second beginning birth pang of wars (Matt 24:6-7a) is represented in the second seal of wars (Rev. 6:4). The third beginning birth pang of famine (Matt 24:7b) is presented in the third seal of famine (Rev. 6:6). The period of hard labor (persecution and apostasy Matt. 24:9-13) is represented in the fourth seal of death (Rev. 6:8). Satan/Antichrist unleash their God-ordained three and a half year campaign of persecution against God's elect. The fifth seal depicts those who are killed because of their faith in Christ as the Lord prophesied (Matt 24:9). The sixth seal represents the sign that initiates the Parousia of Christ & emdash;the sign in the sun, moon, and stars (Matthew 24:29).





As in Matthew, John indicates that immediately after the sign in the sun, moon, and stars, a gathering of God's people will occur. We also see that the great men of earth begin to cry to the rock and mountains, "Fall on us and hide us from the one whom hides on the throne. Christ has been crowned Kings of Kings. The kings know he is now reigning on earth and they see his heavenly thrown on earth, imagine that sight. Between the sixth and seventh seals, 144,00 Jews are sealed on earth from any experience of the wrath of God soon to fall on earth. They know it is coming as their concious pricks them when they see him on his great heavenly thrown. A second group of individuals is highlighted in Revelation 7:9-17. Those sealed on the foreheads from all tribes of Israel may be destined to repopulate the earth as virgins. The masses as no man could count, can be none other than the raptured Saints of the ages - the Church. There are six reasons for this conclusion. God has sealed his 144,000 to shelter them from His wrath he will pour on those that dwell on the earth or the Earth Dwelllers.
  1. The timing is right. It follows the persecution of Satan/ Antichrist, but precedes the wrath of God. John is told that this great multitude "are the ones who come out of the great tribulation." Thus the object of the persecution is removed from earth during the time period known as the "wrath of God".
  2. The numbers are right. John describes the raptured saints as "a great multitude which no one could count." The raptured saints of all the ages are the only ones that will literally fulfill this tremendous number of individuals.
  3. The ethnic or racial composition is right. John proclaims that this great multitude is composed of people from "every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues." These are the very ones John indicated the Lamb purchased for God with His blood (Rev. 5:9).
  4. Their bodies are right. John determines that this great multitude is "standing before the throne [of God] and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands and they cry out with a loud voice..." These can only be individuals who have been resurrected. Paul indicates that the resurrection of the Saints will occur at the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15:52).
  5. The multitude sings the right song. The multitude proclaims, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne (the throne is God's heavenly throne now set on earth), and to the Lamb." The word salvation is better translated victory here. God is not in need of physical or spiritual deliverance, which is what the term usually means. However, the emphasis here is on the victory God will have against the wicked, which is insured by the resurrection of the righteous.
  6. The promise is right. This great multitude is promised both spiritual and physical comfort forever. No hunger, no thirst, no heat exhaustion, no tears, and eternal satisfaction are the rewards of the resurrected. These are the saints we see in Revelation 11 rising from the dead to receive their; when the seventh angel sounds it wakes them from the dead. This is in contrast to the condition of those underneath the altar in Revelation 6:9 who must wait before they will realize their reward. The difference is that one group is raised and one group is not. Most likely the ones under the altar are those saints martyred from throughout the ages who were not part of the Great Tribulation martyrs. The ones under that altar may be Isaiah, Paul, Peter, Justin Martyr, etc.
These points taken together argue strongly for the case that the Rapture occurs in Revelation 7 just before the wrath of God comes at the seventh seal (chapter 8), which is the Day of the Lord.


As in Matthew, John indicates that immediately after the sign in the sun, moon, and stars, a gathering of God's people will occur. Between the sixth and seventh seals, 144,00 Jews are sealed on earth from any experience of the wrath of God soon to fall in the Trumpet judgments. A second group of individuals is highlighted in Revelation 7:9-17. These can be none other than the raptured Saints of the ages - the Church. There are six reasons for this conclusion.

Last edited by Gideon7620; 12-06-2009 at 10:32 AM..
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:43 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Gideon said, Satan has deceived many into believing Jesus is going to fly them away soon; that is a lie of the devil himself. The return of Christ brings the millenial reign on earth. Jesus does not come to only run away from Satan, but rather he comes to judge the earth with the saints and to reign upon it as king of kings. There is not such thing as a secret, hidden, pre-tribulation rapture found anywhere in scripture. Those that think Jesus is coming to take them from tribulation are delusional. Revelation 19 clearly shows us the wedding taking place after the Great Tribulation.
The Book of Revelation cannot be read as in chronological order; neither can Matthew chapter 24.

Explain God's forewarning this church at Thyatira and the consequences thereof within;

Revelation 2:19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Explain God's promise in His exortation to this church at Philadelphia:

Revelation 3: 10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

These be the saints taken away that comes back with Him.

It is not some dreamy escape for the pretribulation rapture is judgment falling on the House of God first: 1 Peter 4:17 As Jesus taught excommunication to the wayward brethrens, so will He do. Due to the falling away of the faith: 1 Timothy 4:1-2, many will find themselves left behind for labouring in unbelief like the foolish virgins and/ or living in sin like the prodigal son... but both shall be restored to the path of righeousness for His name's sake although there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at the loss of their first inheritance, but God will wipe away the tears from their eyes of all those that are His coming out of the great tribulation.

Consider this:

Revelation 20: 1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Who were the ones sitting on the thrones to judge those under the altar that were slain?

Who were the slain under the altar that describes them specifically as the ones only coming out of the great tribulation?

How can they be be risen after Satan was defeated if Jesus was coming back with the saints to defeat the devil?

How is it that this is the first resurrection but yet the rest of the dead are not raised until later on?

Quote:
Pretribulationism is so diametrically opposed to the scriptures and God's truth, that it could not be more opposite of what is actually recorded.
It is hidden as parables are.

2 Thessalonians 2: 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Verse 9 is referring to a former event from verse 8 and yet how can that be when His coming is at the Mount of Olives to do battle at the valley of Armegeddon?

The Lord will judge the House of God by His appearing as that is the seperating of the sheep from the goats: the chaste brides from the foolish virgins and the prodigal sons. This is how the saints are found slain in Babylon after the voice of the bride and the bridegroom will no longer be heard in her anymore because the rapture has occurred.

Matthew 13:33Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Three harvests makes up the Kingdom of God. First is the pretribulation rapture: second.. after the great tribulation:... third after the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Luke 12: 37Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

The first watch reward is sitting down at a meal. Verse 39 refers to the falling away of the faith as many do in chasing after the Holy Spirit when He is in them as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ. By believing a lie that there is more of the Holy Spirit to receive thus preaching another spirit to receive, disregarding Matthew 9:17 and Colossians 2:5-11 & Ephesians 1:12-15 & Galatians 3:14,26, & 1 Corinthians 12:13 & Ephesians 4:4-6, God permitted a strong delusion for not holding to the love of the truth of Christ in us after being bought and sealed as His.

Note the drive in these verses:

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

And for climbing up another way: John 10:1 ignoring the only way to God the Father is through the reconciled relation through Jesus Christ: John 14:6, they fail to relate to the Bridegroom as the chaste bride of Christ.

Luke 13: 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

That is the work if iniquity that the Lord will rebuke on the House of God.

Because of the Nicene Creed and unscriptural hymnals and the RCC practise of seeking charisma, the way has been broadened to approach God by seeking the Holy Spirit and addressing Him and even praying to the Holy Spirit as some hymnals do, but no one can honour God the Father by honouring the Holy Spirit: they can only honour God the Father by honouring the Son Whose name is above every other name... and that is the standard of judgment that is coming on the House of God as Jesus warned about false prophets coming in, broadening the way: Matthew 7:13-27.

John 5: 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

It is specific and cannot include the Holy Spirit to be honoured when that is not the reason why the Holy Spirit is sent to dwell in us to do, but to lead us to honour the Son and thereby the Father so as to avoid false spirits masquerading as the "Holy Spirit" with signs and lying wonders as well as false prophets.

As it is, religion and rudiments in the world in how they seek after spirits and worship spirits, God would call them out of the world to a personal relationship with Him through Jesus Christ to be witnesses of the Son and not of anything in the world with Him to seek his glory which is the role of the Holy Spirit Whom is God also, but seeks to testify and to glorify the Son as should we that are led by Him: John 15:26-27 If the Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself in seeking the glory of the Son, John 16:23-24 : then we that are led by the Spirit of God should be doing what the Holy Spirit is doing and the reason being is Jesus' name is above every other name Philippians 2:5-11 and the Son is the only way that God the Father is glorified through: John 13:31-32 & John 17:1-5.

So there is a need for judgment to fall on the House of God first and that is what the pretribulation rapture is all about: claiming the chaste bride and restoring the wayward to the path of righteousness for forgetting their first love by the event of His appearing.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth by which those coming out of the great tribulation will have God wiping the tears from their eyes to get over that great loss of missing out of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

May all those that name the name of Christ depart from iniquity by trusting their Good Shepherd and Saviour to have them ready as a vessel unto honour in God's House.

2 Timothy 2:18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Colossians 1:20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; 24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: 25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

1 John 3: 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

So the call to be ready is now. Churches need to narrow the way back to Jesus in having that relationship with God through the Bridegroom for that is Whom the Holy Spirit in them is still pointing believers to go to as the scriptures do also.

John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
 
Old 12-06-2009, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Ok, OK , I won't say anything.
 
Old 12-06-2009, 01:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Gideon said,
I would like to know what you are watching for as pre-tribulationism means Christ's coming can be at any moment? The word "watch" in the Greek, does not mean what you imply. So are you going to stay up all through the nights and days until Jesus comes? For you can not watch the signs of the times because there in no prequailfying signs for Jesus to return according to pre-tribulationism. According to the dogma, Jesus could have come anytime after he ascended with no signs to point to his coming. Hence they are suppose to watch all night and day for his coming since he ascended. Not sleeping can kill anyone; it is deadly.
The pre-tribulation rapture false teaching causes people to miss important points that Jesus taught about His return and our gathering to Him.

I watching for the false christ to appear first before Jesus comes to gather up His elect to Himself. [MATT 24:23-31]

Pre-tribbers are looking for Jesus first are setting themselfs up to be deceived by the first "christ" who calls himself Jesus.
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