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Old 12-09-2009, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 2,637,599 times
Reputation: 553

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Your link doesn't work...did you know that? Not sure what this all means but this is hard to understand when I can't see the video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Sneers and jeers aside, I still have a responsibility to post when I feel led....and I'm feeling led. The link below is about the Rapture and has an excellent video explanation of what has happened and is going to happen for those left behind. Those who believe....send it on to everyone you know. Those who don't believe....remember it because you're going to need to reference it VERY SOON.

Woo Hallelujah!!!! Jesus is on His way!!

http://www.lamblion.com/television/p...nksgiving2.php

 
Old 12-09-2009, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 2,637,599 times
Reputation: 553
Your message and comment has little power and is hard to believe because you have no literal scriptural references to back up your belief regarding the rapture. The one scripture that you did reference is out of context. Anyway, I am not convinced for a rapture or against one because personally I don't think it matters. We are supposed to be walking in LOVE period whether the rapture happens or not. As believers our race towards the finish line, our calling and our instruction is NOT to look for the rapture but to bring others to the saving knowledge of Christ. I believe that you guys are wasting a lot of time on what you ARE NOT supposed to be doing...GETTING DISTRACTED. Since nobody knows of the time or hour of Christ's coming why do we all get caught up with the subject? Just curious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Gideon said let's not forget Paul said, God will bring the dead back with him when he returns.

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

These are part of the armies that come back with Jesus.
 
Old 12-09-2009, 11:05 PM
 
12,938 posts, read 7,029,270 times
Reputation: 2413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
]GIDEON SAID,The Bible clearly tells us in Romans 11 that there is no such thing as dispensationalism. So in order for you to understand their doctrine, which is not in scripture, you must be as one of their annointed ones, understanding their dispensation or foolish imaginations inwhich they have.



Romans 11


1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Romans 11 does not in any way contraindicate dispensations. Do you have any understanding of what a dispensation is? It is a period of time in which God administers His plan in a particular way to a particular group of people. Gentiles, then Israel, then the Church. The Greek word--KAIROS refers to events that are organized into dispensations. KAIROS refers to time divided into segments or specific periods, epochs or eras.

Here are a few distinctions between the dispensation of Israel and the dispensation of the church. Some of the differences in God's administration of His plan include the fact that 1.) Israel was under the law. 2.) During the age of Israel, only a man from the tribe of Levi could be a priest. 3.) During the age of Israel, no one was indwelt by any member of the Godhead. There was a function of the Holy Spirit called enduement, which could be lost for disobedience, but that was not indwelling. And it was given to only a few believers for a specific purpose.

In the dispensation of the church, 1.) the church is under grace, and not the law (Romans 10:4). The law is fulfilled in Christ. 2.) In the church age, every believer is a priest (1 Peter 2:5). 3.) And in the dispensation of the church, every believer is indwelt by all three members of the Trinity (John 7:39; John 14:20,23).

Also, in the church age, there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile), there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal. 3:28). In other words, during the church age, every believer belongs to the body of Christ. The church. There are no Jew or Gentile believers in the church age. There is only the church.

The above are examples of changes in the administration of God's plan that distinquish one dispensation from another.

The Greek word --OIKONOMIA, is translated both as ''dispensation'' in ( 1 Cor. 9:17; Eph. 1:10 in the KJV) and as ''stewardship'' in (Luke 16:2-4 in both the KJV and other translations such as the NASV). OIKONOMIA has to do with the administration of an estate or a household. It refers to delegated authority. In each dispensation of human history, God gives someone the responsibility of being the steward of the Word of God. In other words, in each era or dispensation of human history, God places the responsibility of disseminating His word--of evangelizating the world, on a specific group of people. It is from these different administrators that we have the different dispensations--Gentiles, Jews, Church, and Christ.

In the dispensation of the Gentiles, since there was only one race of people in the world, every believer was an administrator, and was responsible for evangelizing. During the Age of Israel, believers in the nation of Israel were responsible for the dissemination of the Gospel. In the dispensation of the church, it is the church which is made up of all believers in Christ, which is the administrator or OIKONOMIA of the Gospel. In the Kingdom age or Millennium, it will be Jesus Christ Himself who is the administrator.

Romans 11 says that Israel is not cast away. And indeed she is not cast away. When the church is raptured at the end of the dispensation of the church, God turns His attention back to Israel. Through the judgments that God pours out on the earth during the Tribulation, which is the remaining seven years of the age of Israel, the Jews finally turn back to God and recognize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they rejected.

It is an absurdity in the extreme to make the ridiculous claim that dispensations are a manmade doctrine. The Bible shouts out that God handles the Gentiles, the Jews, and the Church differently. And it is an understanding of the dispensations which brings about the recognization of the pre-Tribulational rapture.
 
Old 12-09-2009, 11:44 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 2,158,669 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Romans 11 does not in any way contraindicate dispensations. Do you have any understanding of what a dispensation is? It is a period of time in which God administers His plan in a particular way to a particular group of people. Gentiles, then Israel, then the Church. The Greek word--KAIROS refers to events that are organized into dispensations. KAIROS refers to time divided into segments or specific periods, epochs or eras.

Here are a few distinctions between the dispensation of Israel and the dispensation of the church. Some of the differences in God's administration of His plan include the fact that 1.) Israel was under the law. 2.) During the age of Israel, only a man from the tribe of Levi could be a priest. 3.) During the age of Israel, no one was indwelt by any member of the Godhead. There was a function of the Holy Spirit called enduement, which could be lost for disobedience, but that was not indwelling. And it was given to only a few believers for a specific purpose.

In the dispensation of the church, 1.) the church is under grace, and not the law (Romans 10:4). The law is fulfilled in Christ. 2.) In the church age, every believer is a priest (1 Peter 2:5). 3.) And in the dispensation of the church, every believer is indwelt by all three members of the Trinity (John 7:39; John 14:20,23).

Also, in the church age, there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile), there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal. 3:28). In other words, during the church age, every believer belongs to the body of Christ. The church. There are no Jew or Gentile believers in the church age. There is only the church.

The above are examples of changes in the administration of God's plan that distinquish one dispensation from another.

The Greek word --OIKONOMIA, is translated both as ''dispensation'' in ( 1 Cor. 9:17; Eph. 1:10 in the KJV) and as ''stewardship'' in (Luke 16:2-4 in both the KJV and other translations such as the NASV). OIKONOMIA has to do with the administration of an estate or a household. It refers to delegated authority. In each dispensation of human history, God gives someone the responsibility of being the steward of the Word of God. In other words, in each era or dispensation of human history, God places the responsibility of disseminating His word--of evangelizating the world, on a specific group of people. It is from these different administrators that we have the different dispensations--Gentiles, Jews, Church, and Christ.

In the dispensation of the Gentiles, since there was only one race of people in the world, every believer was an administrator, and was responsible for evangelizing. During the Age of Israel, believers in the nation of Israel were responsible for the dissemination of the Gospel. In the dispensation of the church, it is the church which is made up of all believers in Christ, which is the administrator or OIKONOMIA of the Gospel. In the Kingdom age or Millennium, it will be Jesus Christ Himself who is the administrator.

Romans 11 says that Israel is not cast away. And indeed she is not cast away. When the church is raptured at the end of the dispensation of the church, God turns His attention back to Israel. Through the judgments that God pours out on the earth during the Tribulation, which is the remaining seven years of the age of Israel, the Jews finally turn back to God and recognize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they rejected.

It is an absurdity in the extreme to make the ridiculous claim that dispensations are a manmade doctrine. The Bible shouts out that God handles the Gentiles, the Jews, and the Church differently. And it is an understanding of the dispensations which brings about the recognization of the pre-Tribulational rapture.
Mike, you do realize that the timing of the rapture does not have anything to do with whether there are dispensations or not. Post-trib and Pre-trib can account for dispensations as distinctions in how God deals with people.

You said that in the church age every believer is a priest - why then are the tribulation saints called preists of Christ and of God in Rev.20:6?

This is why this issue is really a side track to whether the rapture is pre or post.

Last edited by Shiloh1; 12-10-2009 at 12:06 AM..
 
Old 12-10-2009, 12:38 AM
 
12,938 posts, read 7,029,270 times
Reputation: 2413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Mike, you do realize that the timing of the rapture does not have anything to do with whether there are dispensations or not. Post-trib and Pre-trib can account for dispensations as distinctions in how God deals with people.
The rapture or resurrection of the church is what terminates the church age. The church is taken up into heaven for the judgment seat of Christ, and the tribulation commences on the earth for the purpose of pouring out judgment on Israel for the purpose of turning them back to God and making them see that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they had rejected. The church has no part in the tribulation. There is no reason for the church to go through the Tribulation. God has something different in store for the church during the time of the Tribulation. Namely, to undergo the bema seat judgment of Christ in Heaven.

The dispensatioon of the church does not run co-terminus with the age of Israel. Before the age of Israel resumes for its last seven years (the Tribulation), the church age must be brought to a close. The church must be taken up into Heaven, and the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit must be removed. The Holy Spirit still is present on the earth, but His restraining influence is lifted when the church is removed.

Quote:
You said that in the church age every believer is a priest - why then are the tribulation saints called preists of Christ and of God in Rev.20:6?

This is why this issue is really a side track to whether the rapture is pre or post.
The Millennium is a different dispensation from the church and from the dispensation of Israel.

Revelation 20:6 mentions those who take part in the first resurrection. The first resurrection takes place in four different stages. It is the resurrection of all believers in their proper order and at the proper time. In contrast, the second resurrection is the resurrection of all unbelievers at the same time, to stand at the Great White Throne judgment and then to be cast into the lake of fire forever. (Revelation 20:11-15)

1) The resurrection of Christ.

2) The resurrection of the the church. [The rapture] (1 Thess 4:15-17)

3) The resurrection of the Old Testament saints and Tribulational martyrs at the end of the Tribulation. (Revelation 20:4)

4)The resurrection of the Millennial believers at the end of the Millennium. (Revelation 20:5)

Between Rev. 20:4 and 20:5, the entire Millennium has transpired. All four of these stages are a part of the first resurrection.

Now, every church age believer is a priest and will continue to be priest in the Millennium and forever. As far as the Old Testament saints and Tribulational martyrs, they too will have been resurrected and will be priests. Again, the Millennium is a different dispensation with its own distinctions.

The issue of dispensations is entirely pertinent to the reality of the pre-Tribulational rapture. Anyone with an accurate understanding of what dispensations entail, understands that the rapture is before the Tribulation.

Again, two dispensations do not run at the same time. The church age must be brought to a close before the Tribulation can begin.

And yet again, dispensatons are not a manmade doctrine. Dispensations are the very framework on which God has designed His plan for the ages. And those dispensations are very clearly delineated in the Bible. There is no excuse whatsoever for not recognizing that.

Last edited by Mike555; 12-10-2009 at 12:58 AM..
 
Old 12-10-2009, 01:27 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 2,158,669 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The rapture or resurrection of the church is what terminates the church age. The church is taken up into heaven for the judgment seat of Christ, and the tribulation commences on the earth for the purpose of pouring out judgment on Israel for the purpose of turning them back to God and making them see that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they had rejected. The church has no part in the tribulation. There is no reason for the church to go through the Tribulation. God has something different in store for the church during the time of the Tribulation. Namely, to undergo the bema seat judgment of Christ in Heaven.

The dispensatioon of the church does not run co-terminus with the age of Israel. Before the age of Israel resumes for its last seven years (the Tribulation), the church age must be brought to a close. The church must be taken up into Heaven, and the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit must be removed. The Holy Spirit still is present on the earth, but His restraining influence is lifted when the church is removed.



The Millennium is a different dispensation from the church and from the dispensation of Israel.

Revelation 20:6 mentions those who take part in the first resurrection. The first resurrection takes place in four different stages. It is the resurrection of all believers in their proper order and at the proper time. In contrast, the second resurrection is the resurrection of all unbelievers at the same time, to stand at the Great White Throne judgment and then to be cast into the lake of fire forever. (Revelation 20:11-15)

1) The resurrection of Christ.

2) The resurrection of the the church. [The rapture] (1 Thess 4:15-17)

3) The resurrection of the Old Testament saints and Tribulational martyrs at the end of the Tribulation. (Revelation 20:4)

4)The resurrection of the Millennial believers at the end of the Millennium. (Revelation 20:5)

Between Rev. 20:4 and 20:5, the entire Millennium has transpired. All four of these stages are a part of the first resurrection.

Now, every church age believer is a priest and will continue to be priest in the Millennium and forever. As far as the Old Testament saints and Tribulational martyrs, they too will have been resurrected and will be priests. Again, the Millennium is a different dispensation with its own distinctions.

The issue of dispensations is entirely pertinent to the reality of the pre-Tribulational rapture. Anyone with an accurate understanding of what dispensations entail, understands that the rapture is before the Tribulation.

Again, two dispensations do not run at the same time. The church age must be brought to a close before the Tribulation can begin.

And yet again, dispensatons are not a manmade doctrine. Dispensations are the very framework on which God has designed His plan for the ages. And those dispensations are very clearly delineated in the Bible. There is no excuse whatsoever for not recognizing that.
Mike you are mixing some of your responses with other people not myself - please make it clear what responeses go with what poster. Otherwise you misrepresent what I am saying.

Most of what you wrote are ASSUMPTIONS.

Christ's Resurrection is not part of the first resurrection. He is the Firstfruits of them that slept. It is representative of what is to come for those who are Christ's at His coming.

The 1st resurrection is for ALL WHO ARE IN CHRIST. That is those under the new work of Grace which incorporates Jew and Gentile.

The Church can and will be present during the Tribulation while God is working also with the NATION of Israel.
 
Old 12-10-2009, 02:29 AM
 
12,938 posts, read 7,029,270 times
Reputation: 2413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Mike you are mixing some of your responses with other people not myself - please make it clear what responeses go with what poster. Otherwise you misrepresent what I am saying.

Most of what you wrote are ASSUMPTIONS.

Christ's Resurrection is not part of the first resurrection. He is the Firstfruits of them that slept. It is representative of what is to come for those who are Christ's at His coming.

The 1st resurrection is for ALL WHO ARE IN CHRIST. That is those under the new work of Grace which incorporates Jew and Gentile.

The Church can and will be present during the Tribulation while God is working also with the NATION of Israel.
If you cannot follow my answers, then try harder. I have addressed what you wrote.

Nothing that I wrote are assumptions. This is all basic dispensational theology.


Yes, Christ's resurrection is a part of the first resurrection precisely because He IS the first fruits. His resurrection was necessary for the resurrection of all believers. And the church is next in line to be resurrected. The church is royal family of God. And as such, the church is next in line to be resurrected because rank has it's privileges. The church gets resurrected before any other group of believers and that means before the Tribulation.

Only church age believers are in Christ. No believer of any other dispensation was ever entered into union with Christ. The Old Testament saints and tribulational martyrs that are a part of the third stage of the first resurrection mentioned in Rev. 20:4 are a part of the first resurrection, but they are not in Christ. They belong to the dispensation of Israel. Being in Christ is one of the distinctions of the church age believer.

And what part of two dispensations not running together do you not understand? The church does not go through the Tribulation. It is in Heaven and believers are being evaluated at the bema seat of Christ for the purpose of rewards for spiritual production while on the earth.

Last edited by Mike555; 12-10-2009 at 03:08 AM..
 
Old 12-10-2009, 04:18 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 2,158,669 times
Reputation: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you cannot follow my answers, then try harder. I have addressed what you wrote.

Nothing that I wrote are assumptions. This is all basic dispensational theology.


Yes, Christ's resurrection is a part of the first resurrection precisely because He IS the first fruits. His resurrection was necessary for the resurrection of all believers. And the church is next in line to be resurrected. The church is royal family of God. And as such, the church is next in line to be resurrected because rank has it's privileges. The church gets resurrected before any other group of believers and that means before the Tribulation.

Only church age believers are in Christ. No believer of any other dispensation was ever entered into union with Christ. The Old Testament saints and tribulational martyrs that are a part of the third stage of the first resurrection mentioned in Rev. 20:4 are a part of the first resurrection, but they are not in Christ. They belong to the dispensation of Israel. Being in Christ is one of the distinctions of the church age believer.

And what part of two dispensations not running together do you not understand? The church does not go through the Tribulation. It is in Heaven and believers are being evaluated at the bema seat of Christ for the purpose of rewards for spiritual production while on the earth.
I know exactly what you believe - it may be dispensational theology that is pretrib but to bad pretrib is not Biblical Theology.

Where did I ever say the opposite of what you highlighted? There you go again making arguments where none exist patting yourself on the back as if you accomplished something.

There are no stages to the first Resurrection - PLEASE. EISEGESIS.

You keep stating things without proving them from the WORD. I understand that you believe that two different dispensation do not run togehter. Your assumption is that they cannot overlap as one is fading in and the other is fading out or particularly at the end prior to the Millennium. This is exactly what happened at the first coming the two overlapped for a brief time.

I already showed you your error on II Tim.4:1 and 8 - Christ judges the living and the dead at His appearing and kingdom. The appearing and kingdom are at the same time not 7 years apart. What don't you understand is the more important question. The same word (appearing) is used in 1:10 - not some hidden secret appearing but a visible one. It is used 6 times - all by Paul - and is visible, referring to the 1st coming, the 2nd coming, and the man of sin being revealed whom Christ will destroy by the manifestation (appearing) of His coming (parousia). So stop with your EISEGESIS.

You can state all your beliefs again if you like but that will not make it so.

Last edited by Shiloh1; 12-10-2009 at 04:35 AM..
 
Old 12-10-2009, 05:18 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 6,381,794 times
Reputation: 58122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
Your link doesn't work...did you know that? Not sure what this all means but this is hard to understand when I can't see the video
I just clicked on the link and it works just fine. You do realize that you have to hit the "play" button, right?
 
Old 12-10-2009, 06:41 AM
 
392 posts, read 331,191 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Romans 11 does not in any way contraindicate dispensations. Do you have any understanding of what a dispensation is? It is a period of time in which God administers His plan in a particular way to a particular group of people. Gentiles, then Israel, then the Church. The Greek word--KAIROS refers to events that are organized into dispensations. KAIROS refers to time divided into segments or specific periods, epochs or eras.

Here are a few distinctions between the dispensation of Israel and the dispensation of the church. Some of the differences in God's administration of His plan include the fact that 1.) Israel was under the law. 2.) During the age of Israel, only a man from the tribe of Levi could be a priest. 3.) During the age of Israel, no one was indwelt by any member of the Godhead. There was a function of the Holy Spirit called enduement, which could be lost for disobedience, but that was not indwelling. And it was given to only a few believers for a specific purpose.

In the dispensation of the church, 1.) the church is under grace, and not the law (Romans 10:4). The law is fulfilled in Christ. 2.) In the church age, every believer is a priest (1 Peter 2:5). 3.) And in the dispensation of the church, every believer is indwelt by all three members of the Trinity (John 7:39; John 14:20,23).

Also, in the church age, there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile), there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal. 3:28). In other words, during the church age, every believer belongs to the body of Christ. The church. There are no Jew or Gentile believers in the church age. There is only the church.

The above are examples of changes in the administration of God's plan that distinquish one dispensation from another.

The Greek word --OIKONOMIA, is translated both as ''dispensation'' in ( 1 Cor. 9:17; Eph. 1:10 in the KJV) and as ''stewardship'' in (Luke 16:2-4 in both the KJV and other translations such as the NASV). OIKONOMIA has to do with the administration of an estate or a household. It refers to delegated authority. In each dispensation of human history, God gives someone the responsibility of being the steward of the Word of God. In other words, in each era or dispensation of human history, God places the responsibility of disseminating His word--of evangelizating the world, on a specific group of people. It is from these different administrators that we have the different dispensations--Gentiles, Jews, Church, and Christ.

In the dispensation of the Gentiles, since there was only one race of people in the world, every believer was an administrator, and was responsible for evangelizing. During the Age of Israel, believers in the nation of Israel were responsible for the dissemination of the Gospel. In the dispensation of the church, it is the church which is made up of all believers in Christ, which is the administrator or OIKONOMIA of the Gospel. In the Kingdom age or Millennium, it will be Jesus Christ Himself who is the administrator.

Romans 11 says that Israel is not cast away. And indeed she is not cast away. When the church is raptured at the end of the dispensation of the church, God turns His attention back to Israel. Through the judgments that God pours out on the earth during the Tribulation, which is the remaining seven years of the age of Israel, the Jews finally turn back to God and recognize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they rejected.

It is an absurdity in the extreme to make the ridiculous claim that dispensations are a manmade doctrine. The Bible shouts out that God handles the Gentiles, the Jews, and the Church differently. And it is an understanding of the dispensations which brings about the recognization of the pre-Tribulational rapture.


Gideon said, wrong again, God administers His work to the Gentiles and Israel simultaneously. THere is no rapture; hence he works through both during the Great Tribulation. Despensationalism was a corruption created by Darby, used to place the church out of the picture during the tribulation.. It is you that does not understand Romans 11 and you are in darkness. The church is the new covenant and it continues for all eternity, there is no end to this church age as you suggest. Israel must come back to God by means of the church age, and not by sacrifices of animals, for one sacrifice has already been made, Christ Jesus.

The question should not be do I understand dispensationalism, but rather do you understand Romans 11? Of course we know the anwer is no; you do not understand this passage. As you do not understand John 14, Revelation 3:10, neither do you understand Romans 11 which clearly debunks Darby's heretical stance in dispensationalism. If you did understand R 11 you would not be asking such a silly question.

We have debunked all of you all's ficticious theories in every passage you have presented, with all the vain imaginations presented. Yet you stil can not see the light. Recall John 14, we proved the mansions on high as you thought were not mansions on high but rather a dwelling place God has for us in his kingdom, confirmed in fellowship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but the Comforter. Yet you still deny what is clearly written in God's words. You still think Jesus is going to fly you away to a mansion on High before the tribulation comes. I am amazed at the hardness you display towards God's words.


Now here is the proof; go to this link, click on the number above mansion, and whammo, you have its meaning from the Greek. NOT rocket science. I would advise you to read the entire passage and learn how not to take a verse out of context. Context is king.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...1&t=KJV&sstr=1#

Last edited by Gideon7620; 12-10-2009 at 08:08 AM..
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