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Old 12-13-2009, 06:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
No Noah and his family were not raptured, as you well know. The point is that they were "protected" from the coming destruction, as were Lot and his family. They were not "left behind"......they were miraculously saved by God's grace. That is the point of a "Rapture". God always protects his saints from coming destruction. And it's coming.
Noah and his family were left on the earth but provided a means of protection on the earth.

When the Lord poured out the plagues on Egypt the plagues did not harm His people but yet they remained in Egypt.
The Israelites were not "raptured" anywhere but the Lord provided them the protection.

We are not going to be "raptured" anywhere during the final Tribulation but the Lord will provide us protection from His Wrath.

 
Old 12-13-2009, 07:09 AM
 
392 posts, read 462,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Day of the Lord begins as a result of the rapture. Scripture has been provided. The Day of the Lord includes the Tribulation. Now since the Rapture begins the Day of the Lord, and since the Day of the Lord includes the Tribulation, and again, Scripture has been provided, then logically, the rapture occurs before the Tribulation. It is not a difficult concept to understand. Since the Bible provides the Scripture that verifies that the Day of the Lord includes the Tribulation, there is no excuse for claiming that it doesn't.

The Day of the Lord is a reference to direct divine judgment on the earth. The Tribulation is direct divine judgment poured out on the earth. Zephaniah 1:14-18 relates the Day of the Lord to the Tribulation.

During the Tribulation both the wrath of Satan on believers and the wrath of God on an unbelieving world occur. God's wrath is poured out in the sixth seal judgment (Rev 6:12), as a response to the persecution of His saints in the fifth seal.

Gideon said, clearly wrong again, the Day of the Lord will demand our presence on earth. We will still be here on that last day.


1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The dead will all raise on the last day, the living will be transformed on the day of the Lord, the last day. To us whom are alive, it will not overtake us as a thief, because we can see, we are not in spiritual darkness and have eyes to discern the times and seasons.


first. Jhn 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Jhn 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. Jhn 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Jhn 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Jhn 7:37In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. Jhn 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jhn 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


When is the last day? It is at the end of the GT. When the kingdom is establishes, Mathew 25.



6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


It is elementary my dear Watson, elementary. If you still can not see it. Pray to God for eyes to see and ears to here.
 
Old 12-13-2009, 07:49 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,589,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riceweevil View Post
We are not going to be "raptured" anywhere during the final Tribulation but the Lord will provide us protection from His Wrath.
Yes and that protection will be the Rapture of His saints. And no we will not be raptured during the tribulation....we will be raptured BEFORE the final tribulation.
 
Old 12-13-2009, 10:27 AM
 
19,720 posts, read 15,095,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Gideon said, clearly wrong again, the Day of the Lord will demand our presence on earth. We will still be here on that last day.


1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The dead will all raise on the last day, the living will be transformed on the day of the Lord, the last day. To us whom are alive, it will not overtake us as a thief, because we can see, we are not in spiritual darkness and have eyes to discern the times and seasons.


first. Jhn 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Jhn 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. Jhn 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Jhn 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Jhn 7:37In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. Jhn 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jhn 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


When is the last day? It is at the end of the GT. When the kingdom is establishes, Mathew 25.



6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


It is elementary my dear Watson, elementary. If you still can not see it. Pray to God for eyes to see and ears to here.
The last days for the Church are not the last days for Israel. They are different dispensations. Each has its last days.

Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the founder of Dallas Theological Seminary writes:

'Again, distinction must be made between the ''last days'' for Israel--the days of her kingdom glory in the earth (cf. Isa. 2:1-5)--and the ''last days'' for the Church, which are days of evil and apostasy (cf. 2 Tim.3:1-5). Likewise, discrimination is called for between the ''last days'' for Israel and for the Church and ''the last day,'' which, as related to the Church, is the day of the resurrection for those who have died in Christ (cf. John 6:39-40, 44, 54). A very extensive body of Scripture bears on the last days for the Church. Reference is to a restricted time at the very end of , and yet wholly within, the present age. Though this brief period immediately precedes the great tribulation and in some measure is a preparation for it, these two times of apostasy and confusion--though incomparable in history--are wholly separate the one from the other. Those Scriptures which set forth the last days for the Church give no consideration to political or world conditions but are confined to the Church itself. These Scriptures picture men as departing from the faith (1Tim. 4:1-2). There will be a manifestation of characteristics which belong to unregenerate men, though is under the profession of ''a form of godliness'' (cf. 2 Tim. 3:1-5) with Rom. 1:16; 1 Cor. 1:23-24; 2 Tim. 4:2-4) the leaders in these forms of righteousness will be unregenerate men from whom nothing more spiritual than this could proceed (cf. 1 Cor. 2:14). Te following is a partial list of the passages which present the truth respecting the last days of the Church: 1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Timothy 3:1-5; 4:3-4; James 5:1-8; 2 Peter 2:1-22; 3:3-6; Jude 1:1-25.

(Sytematic Theology, Lewis Sperry Chafer, vol.4, p.374,375)


A failure to acknowledge, and to distinquish between the dispensations of human history that are delineated in the Bible leads to confusion, and an inability to properly understand the Bible.

For instance, you have improperly understood 1Thessalonians 5:1-11 by attempting to put it at the end of the Tribulation. It refers to the end of the Church age, which is terminated by the rapture prior to the Tribulation.

1 Thess. 5:9 says plainly, ''For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvaton through our Lord Jesus Christ...'' 11) Therefore encourage one another, and build up one another, just as you also are doing.''

The Tribulation is Daniel's seventieth week. It is the time of Jacob's trouble. It is about God turning Israel back to Him through the judgments that are poured out on the earth. The church has absolutely no part in it. During the Tribulation, the church is in Heaven, having been already resurrected, and is being evaluated at the judgment seat of Christ.

Revelation 19:7 says, ''...for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.''

''The bride has made herself ready.'' This means the entire church is in Heaven as a result of having been resurrected. And having made herself ready means that she has been through the judgment seat of Christ and has 'clothed herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.' (Rev. 19:8)

The righteous acts of the saints are the works that Christ has declared to be 'gold, silver, and precious stones' 1 Cor. 3:12-15; 2 Cor. 5:10; Rom. 14:10-12.

Having been made ready, the church is now about to return to the earth with Christ.

Col. 3:4 ''When Christ who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.''

1 Thess. 3:13 ''To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.''

Jude 1:14 ''And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints.''

Rev. 19:8,14 ''And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints....And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.''

Notice again, 1 Thess 3:13. ''...at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ WITH ALL HIS SAINTS.

Since all His saints return with Christ at His Second Advent, that means that ALL His saints (church age believers) had previously been taken up into Heaven by means of the rapture of the church before the Tribulation.

In order for all His saints to return with Christ, all His saints first had to have been raptured.

The post-Tribulation view has no ground to stand on. It is a false view based on a misunderstanding of the Scriptures and a lack of knowledge concerning the dispensational nature of God's plan. The church is raptured before the Tribulation occurs.
 
Old 12-13-2009, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertdeacon View Post
The Scripture says, paraphasing, if the righteous scarcely, few in number, be saved where will the sinners stand. from this we can plainly see that being merely righteous is not enough. You must repent, death of your will, and be baptized, symbolically buried, in the name of Jesus Christ to be counted in that few. Of course the significance of naming Jesus in the baptism is that by doing so you declare plainly that Jesus was God with us in flesh and blood. This understanding is the vary doctine and gospel of Christ.
I think you are referring to 1 Peter 4:18 which is quoting Proverbs 11:31..

If the righteous receive their due on earth, how much more the ungodly and the sinner!

Neither one gives a number of how many righteous or how many sinners and it is talking specifically of being saved from tribulation on earth and is not referring to an afterlife.
 
Old 12-13-2009, 02:57 PM
 
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My response in Red

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I did not say that the Day of the Lord could be any time BETWEEN the Tribulation and the new heavens and earth. I said the the Day of the Lord INCLUDES the Tribulation. And the Day of the Lord begins as a result of the rapture which precedes the Tribulation. And I have provided the Scripture that confirms it.

Fair enough, you believe the Day of the Lord includes everything from the tribulation to the New heavens and New Earth. No Scripture teaches that the Day of the Lord kicks off with the rapture - that is your assumption. In fact that is what you are trying to prove (and failing to do so) so you can not use this as an argument - it is circular reasoning.

The fact that 1 Thess 5:2 and Revelation 16:15 contain the phrases 'a thief in the night', and 'I am coming like a thief,' do not mean that the rapture and the Second Advent are the same. The phrases have the meaning of coming quickly. They mean that when Christ comes, He comes quickly. The 'Day of the Lord' is said to come quickly in 1 Thess 5:2. When Christ comes at the rapture, He comes quickly, just as He comes quickly at the Second Advent. Any part of the judgments that are poured out during the Tribulation come quickly.

This is why I think you do not understand post-tribulationalism. First, no one is saying that the Second Coming and the Rapture are the same. They are different events that happen simultaneously. Second, you fail to see that 'a thief in the night' is not just about coming quickly (whatever you mean by that) but about being ready, watching, prepared, ect. The coming quickly, if you are referring to the phrases in Revelation are different than the thief verses. In the non-visionary (not regarding the tribulation period) parts of the Book Jesus uses the quickly or soon phrases but only in the visionary section (Rev.16:15) does Jesus say He is yet to come as a thief in the night. If you are referring to quickly as meaning suddenly then this does not help your case either seeing that Christ comes suddenly at the Second Coming when He comes like Lighting out of the sky.

Furthermore, the place of when He comes as a thief is called Armangeddon and that Day is called in Rev.16:14 'that great Day of God Almighty.'

I challenge you to do a study of all the thief verse and tell me if it referring to the Rapture or the Second Coming.

Matt.24:43; I Thess.5:2, 4; II Pet.3:10; Rev.3:3; 16:14-15.

Peter even calls that day the Day of God v.12 just like Rev.16:14. He also suggests that it begins with the second coming not the tribulation. The Day of the Lord specifically refers to when He returns and all things which follow - hence Peter's remarks 'in which the heavens will ...' What commences the Day of the Lord, in Peter's mind, is His return not the Rapture. That is why it is called His Day. In the Tribulation, Satan also is given space for a short time to display his wrath. The Tribulation is a back and forth display of Both God's and Satan's wrath - it is only when the destruction of those enemies happens does the Day of the Lord start. But I do not need to press that issue because it does not matter as I will explain below - at the end.

One thing you get from looking at these verses is that those who are Christ's know perfectly well (I Thess.5:2) when this day is, it is those who are not watching waiting and prepared that this day will surprise them and plunder them as a thief. The point is that this day is not a suprise to us if you are ready for it. We know when this Day is going to happen - Jesus gave the clues of the immediate period, particularly the abomination of desolation. He said when you see all these things look up for you redemption draws near it is even at the doors.

Think about what this is saying.The 'Day of the Lord as it relates to the final one thousand plus years of human history, begins with the rapture. I have provided the Scripture to confirm that. And then the Tribulation follows the rapture, and then the the second advent follows the tribulation.

No you have not.

Since the rapture Begins the 'Day of the Lord', and since the Tribulation is included in the 'Day of the Lord', that means the tribulation comes After the rapture.

This is your assumption. No where is the rapture said to start the tribulation.

Now understand what Paul is telling the Thessalonians in 1 Thess. 5. First, verse one, the timing of the rapture is not specified. Then in verse two, Paul tells them that the Day of the Lord will come quickly. Again, the Day of the Lord begins with the rapture. More accurately, the rapture signals the beginning of the Day of the Lord. Now, in verse three, the first half of the Tribulation is being referred to. Everyone is saying 'peace and safety.' They have been lulled into a false sense of security by the peace treaty of the antichrist. But then destruction comes all of a sudden. This is the second half of the Tribulation beginning. Then in verse four, Paul tells them that the 'Day of the Lord'-referring to the Tribulation will not overtake them like a thief, because they are not in darkness. Another way of saying this is that the Tribulation is God's judgment poured out on an unbelieving world. But the Church, that is the body of believers in Christ are not of this world. Christians are in the world but are not of the world. Therefore, the Church will not go through the Tribulation. Verse five says 'for you are all sons of light and sons of day.' Therefore in verse nine, 'For God has not destined us for wrath, but for attaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.' Now, salvation also refers to the resurrection of the body. Verse ten goes on to say, 'that whether we are awake--living, or asleep--dead, we may live together with Him. The resurrection or rapture. And so in verse ten, Paul tells them to 'encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.'

See how you change the Word of God - now it says 'quickly' not 'as a theif.' Stop twisting the Word. And then how you assume that this quickly is the rapture therefore the rapture comes before the tribulation - this is terrible exegesis. So you change the word and then you make an unwarranted inference - not good.

Then you go on to make other assumptions like verse 3 referring to the beginning of the Tribulation - Question: Who is saying 'Peace and Safety?' The answer is those whom sudden destruction comes upon - that is the ungodly who surround Jerusalem. There is no sudden destruction at the very beginning of the tribulation for the ememies of God. The destruction of the ungodly who seek to annialate the Jewish problem happens at the end of the tribulation when He comes as a thief as explained to you.

The salvation in verse 9 is talking about the judgemnet of God upon the wicked when He returns not the Tribulation.

Regarding your point about verse 10; as pointed out elsewhere - when does the 1st resurrection occur? At the Second coming not before.

Paul told the Thessalonians that they would not go through the Tribulation, but would be delivered from it. They will not go through any of the judgments of the Day of the Lord because they will be in Heaven.

Paul never mentions the tribulation in these verses.

Now here is an important point that you do not understand about post-tribulationalism. Please understand this:

It does not matter if the 'Day of the Lord' is the Second Coming or if it includes the Tribulation - do you know why?

Because even if it includes the tribulation all the verses that you use to prove an escape prior to the Tribulation do not speak of being removed from the earth but rather being protected through the tribulation or not being subject to the judgment of the Graet Day of God Almighty at the end of the tribulation. Do you understand this? This is why I have not pressed the issue with you. Even though I prefer to see the Day of the Lord as that great Day of God Almighty spoken of in Rev.16:14 it does not matter for a pos-triber. Alot of the prophets when speaking of the Day of the Lord are speaking of things that run-up to or accompany the Day of the Lord and things that follow that day. But those things (like the tribulation period or the 1000 year reign) are different from the Day itself. This is clear in the quote from Rev.16:14-15 and Peter's use of the thief concept. But like I said even if I grant that the Day includes the tribulation it does not matter because of the fact that God will not pour out His wrath on us during it - Egypt is the perfect example of this when God poured out 10 plagues on the Egyptions while His people were in the very midst of those plagues.

Read the excerpt I included in the post from the book, 'Major Bible Prophecies.'
 
Old 12-13-2009, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,369,841 times
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Some of you cannot clearly "handle the truth". Oh ye of little faith............How is it that you do not believe what has been spoken? Do you doubt God? Do you doubt that He is a WONDER? That with God, ALL things are possible? Even a rapture?
 
Old 12-13-2009, 08:07 PM
 
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Mike555 said, my response is in red

Col. 3:4 ''When Christ who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.''

1 Thess. 3:13 ''To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.''

Jude 1:14 ''And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints.''

Rev. 19:8,14 ''And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints....And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.''

Notice again, 1 Thess 3:13. ''...at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ WITH ALL HIS SAINTS.

Since all His saints return with Christ at His Second Advent, that means that ALL His saints (church age believers) had previously been taken up into Heaven by means of the rapture of the church before the Tribulation.

In order for all His saints to return with Christ, all His saints first had to have been raptured.

Yes, Mike the saints have to be raptured first before they return with Christ. Hello! We know this.The fact that you make such a statement as proof of Pre-Trib is proof itself that you do not understand Post-Trib. This statement of yours says nothing about when the rapture takes place other than before Christ returns - not necessarily 7yrs prior. Most Christians will have already died when Christ returns so they will be in Heaven already. The few that are alive and remain will be caught up together with them when Christ starts to descend. This is what I Thess.4 teaches. Get it. No I doubt you will.

This is exactly how He comes with His saints - I Thess.3:13. Now tell me Mike where in the Scriptures does it say 'for' His saints? Come on show us where it uses that word as the Scriptures do using 'with.' Since Pre-tribers make such a big deal out of the 'for' and 'with' comings let's see the verses.

And do not give me your infrences - I will be waiting.
 
Old 12-13-2009, 09:55 PM
 
392 posts, read 462,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Day of the Lord begins as a result of the rapture. Scripture has been provided. The Day of the Lord includes the Tribulation. Now since the Rapture begins the Day of the Lord, and since the Day of the Lord includes the Tribulation, and again, Scripture has been provided, then logically, the rapture occurs before the Tribulation. It is not a difficult concept to understand. Since the Bible provides the Scripture that verifies that the Day of the Lord includes the Tribulation, there is no excuse for claiming that it doesn't.

The Day of the Lord is a reference to direct divine judgment on the earth. The Tribulation is direct divine judgment poured out on the earth. Zephaniah 1:14-18 relates the Day of the Lord to the Tribulation.

During the Tribulation both the wrath of Satan on believers and the wrath of God on an unbelieving world occur. God's wrath is poured out in the sixth seal judgment (Rev 6:12), as a response to the persecution of His saints in the fifth seal.

Gideon said absolutely wrong; The Day of the Lord is one Day and it come on the last day. I Thessalonian 5 tells us that it is one Day that brings God's wrath to man. The tribulation is Satan's wrath not God's. Can you show us one instance where we see God's wrath in the Tribulation? The answer is no for certain.


Thessalonians 5 (King James Version)

1 Thessalonians 5


1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The key is we are of the light and can see; the day does not over take us as a thief.

So this means we will be here to see it. hence there is no pretribulation rature. Hello Huston are you home, smell the coffee.

5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

suffer:

2Th 1:6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Hello, wake up, we do not leave earth, we are here to see Jesus when he is revealed in all his Glory, in flaming fire taking vengeance on the enemies of the Gospel. He even comes with His mighty angels, wow. Further we do not receive rest from them that trouble us until He returns with His mighty power to judge the wicked.


2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
 
Old 12-13-2009, 10:30 PM
 
19,720 posts, read 15,095,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
My response in Red
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Gideon said absolutely wrong; The Day of the Lord is one Day and it come on the last day. I Thessalonian 5 tells us that it is one Day that brings God's wrath to man. The tribulation is Satan's wrath not God's. Can you show us one instance where we see God's wrath in the Tribulation? The answer is no for certain.


Thessalonians 5 (King James Version)

1 Thessalonians 5


1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The key is we are of the light and can see; the day does not over take us as a thief.

So this means we will be here to see it. hence there is no pretribulation rature. Hello Huston are you home, smell the coffee.

5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

suffer:

2Th 1:6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Hello, wake up, we do not leave earth, we are here to see Jesus when he is revealed in all his Glory, in flaming fire taking vengeance on the enemies of the Gospel. He even comes with His mighty angels, wow. Further we do not receive rest from them that trouble us until He returns with His mighty power to judge the wicked.


2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
You've already been shown that the day of the Lord covers a thousand plus years period. The scripture has been given. The 'Day of the Lord' refers to a period of divine judgment however long, and includes the Tribulation, the Millennium where Christ will immediately judge sin, and the destruction of the present Heavens and the earth. The 'Day of the Lord' is also used for judgments that occured in the Old Testament. Again, simply go into the verses already given. Or don't. Whatever.

For the judgments of God in the Tribulation simply look to the sixth seal. (Rev. 6:12-17)

Last edited by Mike555; 12-13-2009 at 10:49 PM..
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