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Old 12-15-2009, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,657 posts, read 3,200,073 times
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Everyone left come to my place for I.P.A.'s and a jam.

 
Old 12-15-2009, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
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Did you forget that we are not destined to wrath? (I Thessalonians 5:9). So if God did not destined us to wrath and anger and the tribulation is about wrath and anger then how can the church go through it?

I Thessalonians 1:10 "and to wait for His Son from Heaven whom He raised from the dead that is Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come).

Brother Gideon, it helps to read both books (Thess) and then quote scripture in context and you will find pre-trib is bib....lical. God Bless Bro...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Gideon said get your life right now, because when Jesus comes to rapture the saints after the Great Tribulation ends , it will be too late then. He will cast any evil servant into hell at that point, as he separates the sheep from the goats. There will be no second chances. If you are not saved now, possibly,depending how you view God and his word, you may never get saved when God sends HIis strong delusion, most likely occurs at the beiginning of the GT. Those whom have pleasure in unrighteousness or in error with the timing of the rapture are doomed to be damned according to II Thes 2 1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What truth did nt they believe, the truth concerning the timing; that is why Paul reitterates it to us. He wants to ensure the true sainst are not fooled by foolish fables and fairytales.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,578,277 times
Reputation: 564
Then why in Revelation 6 is it the Lamb, Jesus who broke the Seven Seals and brought forth war, famine death, martyrdom and physical disturbances...or did you mistake Him for Satan?

...and you said that Jesus comes back in fire and vengeance and we are HERE (or on earth as you say) at that time. No Gideon, Jesus comes back with the CHURCH which is you and I. You must of forgot to read Revelation 19 as well when Jesus returns with His Saints (verses 5-16). It is the church who returns to rule with Jesus not the Angels. (Revelation 20-22)

Helloooo.. wake up post tribbers and smell the coffee and read your Bible in context. You may also want to ask God for understanding and He will give it to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Gideon said absolutely wrong; The Day of the Lord is one Day and it come on the last day. I Thessalonian 5 tells us that it is one Day that brings God's wrath to man. The tribulation is Satan's wrath not God's. Can you show us one instance where we see God's wrath in the Tribulation? The answer is no for certain.


Thessalonians 5 (King James Version)

1 Thessalonians 5


1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The key is we are of the light and can see; the day does not over take us as a thief.

So this means we will be here to see it. hence there is no pretribulation rature. Hello Huston are you home, smell the coffee.

5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

suffer:

2Th 1:6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Hello, wake up, we do not leave earth, we are here to see Jesus when he is revealed in all his Glory, in flaming fire taking vengeance on the enemies of the Gospel. He even comes with His mighty angels, wow. Further we do not receive rest from them that trouble us until He returns with His mighty power to judge the wicked.


2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 09:27 PM
 
5,495 posts, read 4,400,471 times
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Raelyn28, with all do respect go and read the thread, all those points you bring up have been dealt with, thank you very much. you are just restarting arguments that have been dealt with here before.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,578,277 times
Reputation: 564
Sorry but I am not about to read pages and pages of posts. Gideon responded to my very first answer to this question and I needed to respond back to him accordingly.

and another thing does it matter if the same thing was posted one time or one hundred times before? Obviously he isn't getting it... but thanks for letting me know. Like I said, I just answered the question and he restarted the discussion so maybe you should post to him instead of me because I am just replying. The answer was in regards to the original question from the OP. Thankyou.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Raelyn28, with all do respect go and read the thread, all those points you bring up have been dealt with, thank you very much. you are just restarting arguments that have been dealt with here before.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,578,277 times
Reputation: 564
Default You may think I am crazy but whatever...

I felt led to share something with you guys since we are on this subject regarding the rapture and it is a subject that is obviously controversial. I truly believe that God has given me a gift of discernment which has been confirmed by a couple of well-known speakers/prophets through the last several years. He has also given me the interpretation of dreams and visions with a couple recently coming to completion.

I have also experienced demonic attack and on a couple of occasions have seen into the spiritual realm and actually was able to see/feel demons. Thank God through the authority of His Word they left. Praise God!!

In addition, God has been very gracious and conversed with me in a very intimate way through the years. I have truly believed for a long time that God truly loves me and I am so thankful to Him for all He has done in my life. I wasn't always a believer, in fact I was very carnal for the first couple of decades of my life. My life as an unbeliever was disastrous and almost fatal but the Lord says in His Word "her sins which are many have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who has been forgiven little, loves little". I would say I am an example of this scripture in Luke(Luke 7:47). I love Him for His graciousness and I believe He has a wonderful purpose for me/us.

Anyway, with that said I wanted to tell you that God spoke to me several years ago regarding something that was beginning to trouble me. I was noticing that the world was becoming more and more obsessed with the subject of aliens. I started noticing more and more movies involving aliens and more talk about it in all aspects of media. The world had become mesmerized by the alien concept and I inquired of the Lord as to what was going on. I believe He spoke to me about the stage being set for one of the greatest deceptions of mankind and a lie from the pit of hell. It is a plan or scheme from Satan to blind the eyes of those who are left behind after the Rapture. Think about it?

What is going to happen when the church is raptured? Those left behind will blame it on the aliens and once again deny God...because they have been decieved by the deciever and lied to once again. If you don't believe me there are plenty of other highly respected men/women of God who also believe this.

So ask me if I believe in the rapture and I say "yes" according to what God has shown me, and according to further study in the Word regarding this heated subject. I don't think we should be arguing about it but we should study and ask God for direction. We as Christians can get caught up in distractions as well but our distractions are often subtle and look innocent because we are talking about the Bible, using scriptures, etc. We need to see the distraction as anything that keeps us from loving people, living in peace instead of conflict and encouraging one another. Are we doing that with these arguments or disagreements?

Really people? Are we wasting our time on forums like this? Or are we preaching, loving, witnessing and serving a dying world that desperately needs an answer? They are watching, make no mistake about it. I don't believe that God is pleased with these discussions if they become arguments. I have only posted on this thread a few times and I won't stay here long but I pray that everyone would pray and ask God to reveal Himself to you...

I pray that we would find unity and agree to disagree if we don't find peace about a certain subject. Then I pray that we truly would study to show ourselves approved. God bless you all... you really have so much to offer.. don't become distracted and useless.

Thanks for listening... for those who want a more thorough study of the rapture I would like to recommend the following link. Very good information!!! You won't be disappointed.

Rapture Questions Continue: Our Blessed Hope - Chuck Missler - Koinonia House
 
Old 12-15-2009, 11:48 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,771,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
Did you forget that we are not destined to wrath? (I Thessalonians 5:9). So if God did not destined us to wrath and anger and the tribulation is about wrath and anger then how can the church go through it?
Ask some of the christians who have been tortured and murdered for their faith if they have endured wrath. Ask Peter,John, and Paul if they endured any wrath. Just because you were born in a place and time where you live in a free society and can live your life anyway you choose, doesn`t mean people aren`t killed,tortured, and seperated from their families everyday because of their faith. I would call that torture,tribulation,horrible suffering of the worst kind.
Acts 14:
22Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
The only way you enter the kingdom is through fire. We all must endure pain and suffering.
The problem is you have no idea what he is talking about in 1 Thess 5:9.
You are reading it with your carnal,physical eyes and mind. You should ask God to open your eyes to his spiritual truth and give you wisdom.


Quote:
I Thessalonians 1:10
Quote:
"and to wait for His Son from Heaven whom He raised from the dead that is Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come).
Quote:

Brother Gideon, it helps to read both books (Thess) and then quote scripture in context and you will find pre-trib is bib....lical. God Bless Bro...
You can look for context all you want. But if you are reading God`s word and applying only physical on the surface meanings to these scriptures,then you will never get it. You can`t read the bible and understand it the way you would Moby Dick. You have to peel back the layers,my friend. You are making the same mistake that all church followers make. It goes much deeper than what your church is teaching you. But organized religion only sees with their physical eyes.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 11:50 PM
 
5,733 posts, read 4,580,552 times
Reputation: 4149
God is not the author of confusion.

God loves us.
ALL of us.

period.

When you all finally start to believe that, is when you will truly start to see a rapture.

peace.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:28 AM
 
20,298 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Gideon said yes yes, a thousand years is a a day to the Lord and a day as a thousand years. Woopie, we are not talking about that. We are talking about a post-tribulation rapture and the judgement it brings with it, in one day, God's wrath. The bible displays God's wrath as so severe and immediate when i it fall. that it will literally insinerate the earth and all the evil works. That is instant.. you are still thouroughly confused. I have already explained the sixth seal to you; God does not take a thousand years to pour His wrath on wicked in the world; Revelation shows it to be instantaneous. Neither is the millenium God's judgment on the wicked, but it is the believer's time of blessing, marriage with Christ, and their reign on the earth. The seven year tribulation is not God's time of wrath but Satan's great wrath, revelation 12 makes that perfectly clear. So you obviously do not understand the scriptures and are very confused. The devil has come down having great wrath. The woman flees to the wilderness to hide from the face of the serpent for 3.5 years. Hello, are you home. Pure elementary my dear watson.
No, at this particular moment I am demonstrating that the day of the Lord covers a thousand plus year period. I am also demonstrating that the Tribulation is the wrath of God poured out on an unbelieving world.

1) The Day of the Lord.

The claim is made by the post-tribbers (at least some) that the Day of the Lord is a single day event. That it is the day when Christ makes His return to the earth.

The reality is that the Day of the Lord covers the period of the Tribulation, the Second Advent of Christ, the Millennium, and the destruction of the present heavens and the earth.

The 'Day of the Lord' is a descriptive term that refers to any period of time of direct divine judgment on the world.

A) 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 'For you yourselves know full well that THE DAY OF THE LORD will come just like a thief in the night. 3) While they are sayng, ''Peace and safety!'' then destruction will come upon them suddenly like birth pangs upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.'

Shortly after the church is raptured into Heaven, the Tribulation will begin. The first three and one half years of the Tribulation are actually peaceful, because of the peace contract that the antichrist has made with Israel. He has made this peace contract with Israel but breaks it after three and one half years. But during those first three and one half years, Israel is lulled into a false sense of security And as it says in 1 Thess 5:2 'while they are saying, ''Peace and safety,'' destruction comes upon them suddenly.

Those believing Jews who had paid attention to the warning of Mark 13:14 will flee to safety. Those who didn't pay attention and heed the warning are not going to escape the trials that are about to come. Here is what Mark 13:14 says.

''But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION STANDING WHERE IT SHOULD NOT BE (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15) ''And let him who is on the housetop not go down, or enter in, to get anything out of his house; 16) and let him who is in the field not turn back to get his cloak. 17) ''But woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days! 18) ''But pray that it may not happen in the winter. 19) For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created, until now, and never shall, 20) ''And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect whom He chose, He shortened the days.''

'The Abomination of desolation standing where it should not be' takes place about 3 1/2 years into the Tribulation and starts the last half which is known as 'the Great Tribulation. And it is here, at the midway point of the Tribulation that the 'Day of the Lord' comes like a thief in the night. (That is, it comes suddenly, unexpectedly. Many will be caught off guard).

1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 makes it clear that the Day of the Lord does not start with the return of Christ, but with the midway point of the Tribulation.

And by the way, 1 Thess. 5:9 makes it clear that the church is not going to go through the Tribulation. ''For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10) who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him (The Rapture).

And by the way, these are not half baked ideas of my own creation. These are first of all, what are revealed in the Bible. Furthermore, these are the views held by many prominent experts in the field of Eschatology. Men such as Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer who founded Dallas Theological Seminary. John F. Walvoord, who succeeded Dr. Chafer as president of Dallas Theological Seminary. Dr. C.I. Scofield, who was a genius in the field of analysis of the Bible. Robert B. Thieme Jr. who was pastor of Berachah Church for over 50 years and one of the leading men in the field of theology during the twentieth century. And there are many others who are experts who know what they are talking about. Therefore, I do not appreciate any post tribbers who fancy themselves to be able to properly exegete the scriptures, but who in reality don't know straight up from straight down, making allegations that I am making false associations with reqard to what a passage says, or in comparing one passage with another passage.

B) Now, the Day of the Lord of course, Does include the Second Advent of Christ, so no need to go into that.

C) The Day of the Lord also includes the Millennium because Jesus Christ will be on the earth ruling from the throne of David (Isa. 9:7; Luke 1:32-33) with a rod of iron. He will immediately judge sin. He will judge the wicked (Psalms 72:2-9; Isa.11:3-5). Although the Millennium is a time of great peace and prosperity,there will be those in the Millennial Kingdom who rebel against the Lord. There will be those who commit criminal acts. This is because the Millennium will be populated by mortal men who still have sin natures. And even though Satan will be locked up during the Millennium, man's sin nature will still be active.

Isaiah 11:3-4 ''And He will delight in the fear of the LORD. And He will not judge by what His eyes see, Nor make a decision by what His ears hear; 4) But with righteousness He will judge the poor, And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.


D) The Day of the Lord also includes the destruction of the present heavens and earth.

2 Peter 3:10 ''But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works wil be burned up.

As is seen from the Bible, The Day of the Lord covers a period of more than a thousand years.

Now, a change in what I have been saying. The rapture, which occurs shortly before the Tribulation begins, appears not to be known as 'The Day of the Lord.' Rather, it is designated as the 'Day of Christ.' (Phil.1:6; Phil. 1:10; Phil 2:16; 1 Cor. 1:8)

The Day of Christ (the Rapture-the event which unites the church with her bridegroom in Heaven), precedes the Day of the Lord (a period of divine judgment on the inhabitants of the earth.

Here is a link for more information on the Day of Christ.

What is the difference between the Day of Christ and the Day of the Lord

2) The Tribulation is the wrath of God poured out on an unbelieving world.

Very simply, each and every seal; all six seals in Revelation 6, are broken by the Lamb, Who is Jesus Christ. It is Jesus Christ who initiates the seal judgments on the earth. These are the divine judgments of God on the world.

And yes, Satan takes out his anger and frustration and desperation on the Jewish and Gentile believers, and there will be many Jewish martyrs as a result.

Everything that occurs in the Tribulation is for the purpose of turning Israel back to God and to the recognition that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they had rejected. Satan can do nothing during the Tribulation that God doesn't allow him to do. God uses the anger of Satan to His own purposes.

Now I don't expect any of this to sink into the heads of those who are bound and determined to believe in the heresy of a post tribulation rapture. I do hope that there are some people who are reading this to whom it will make sense.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:33 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,771,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I do hope that there are some people who are reading this to whom it will make sense.
There are. Most people that follow the cultish organized religion that you are a part of will fall right in line.
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