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Old 12-04-2009, 03:47 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,941 posts, read 26,170,830 times
Reputation: 16099

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
1. The Tribulation is for the EARTH DWELLERS - those who dwell on the EARTH

Jacobs Trouble is for ISRAEL and JERUSALEM.

Do not confuse the two. Jacobs Trouble is the latter half of the tribulation and focuses on Israel. That is if you take the Book of Rev. as still future.
Since the Church is in Heaven during the Tribulation, it is the Jews and unbelieving gentiles that are on the earth during the Tribulation. The first half of the Tribulation will be relatively peaceful. It is the last 3/12 years that the great judgments are poured out on those who are on the earth. The church is not among them. She has been taken up into Heaven and the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit has been removed with the Church so that the Tribulation can occur.



Quote:
2. Yes the armies in heaven are going to be following Christ when He returns and those who are alive and remain on earth are going to be raptured and caught up to meet them in the air as they descend with Christ to earth.

Why would the Bride need to be MADE READY after they have already been raptured / resurrected 7 years earlier? Once the resurrection happpens there is nothing more that needs to be done for and individual in Christ except to rule and reign with Him in His Kingdom. There is nothing that says those who are in heaven are the COMPLETED bride of Christ. Paul says those who are dead in Christ will rise first and then we who are alive and remain UNTIL THE COMING OF THE LORD will be caught up together with them.
As mentioned, after the rapture, believers appear before Christ at the judgment seat of Christ for evaluation of their works for the purpose of rewards. By the time of Revelation 19:7 the church has been made ready.

Quote:
3. Why not Christ left His Bride on Earth for 1900+ years being beaten up by Satan. Christ even predicted it. Christians have been and are being murdered, tortured, mocked, and ridiculed for the sake of Christ. God said He would protect us from HIS WRATH not Satan's. The Bride will not be DECIEVED by Satan's lies but that does not mean that she will forego his wrath.
When Israel rejected Christ as the Messiah, God interrupted the age of Israel, and instituted the dispensation of the church for the purpose of calling out a body of believers of which Christ is the head. When God has determined that the body of Christ is complete, then its purpose here on earth is complete and it is taken up into Heaven. At that time, God turns His attention back to Israel and the last seven years remaining to israel, the Tribulation, begins. The purpose of the Great Tribulation is to get Israel to realize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they rejected.

God does not deal with Israel and the Church at the same time. God has a different purpose for each. Go to this link for some more information for this.

ISRAEL IS ISRAEL

Read Ephesians 5:22-33 for an understanding of marriage as related to Christ and the church.

Quote:
4. Your interpretation of II Thess.2 is a complete inference and pre-trib bias. Nowhere does it say anything about the Holy Spirit indwelling the Church and that she must be raptured out of the world before a tribulation. Talk about seeing what one needs to see. It is funny that you use an argument from silence, in that, the book of Revelation does not mention the Church as a proof that the Church is not on earth but when you read II Thess.2 you see the Church being raptured out of the world all over it. Can we say inconsistancy and prejudice.
John 7:39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified

Romans 5:5 ...through the Holy Spirit was given to us.

Romans 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.

I Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?''

1 Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you...

Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation having also believed, you were also sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14) who is given as a pledge of our inheritance...

Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, ''Abba! Father!''

1 John 3:24 ...And we know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The Holy Spirit is promised to the Church in John 16:5-15

As clearly shown by the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit indwells the body of the church age believer--the church.

Showing the Church in Heaven during the Tribulation in Revelation 19 is not an arguement from silence; it is, how can I say this? Oh yes, IT IS SHOWING THE CHURCH IN HEAVEN DURING THE TRIBULATION.

Quote:
The Bible does not teach a pre-trib rapture.
The pre-Tribulational rapture is clearly taught in Scripture.

Reasons why the Church will not go through the Great Tribulation

Doctrine of the Tribulation (by Ron Rhodes)

Anyone who is interested in the truth of the matter simply go to the above sites and absorb what they have to say about it. There are always going to be those who refuse to acknowledge the rapture of the church before the Tribulation because of Satanic attempts to confuse the issue, and many are deceived.

The rapture or resurrection of the Church is the blessed hope of believers and when the body of Christ is complete, the Lord returns to the clouds and we who are alive will meet Him in the air and we shall forever be with the Lord.

Compare 1 Thess 4:13-17 with John 14:1-3.

 
Old 12-04-2009, 04:12 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Since the Church is in Heaven during the Tribulation, it is the Jews and unbelieving gentiles that are on the earth during the Tribulation. The first half of the Tribulation will be relatively peaceful. It is the last 3/12 years that the great judgments are poured out on those who are on the earth. The church is not among them. She has been taken up into Heaven and the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit has been removed with the Church so that the Tribulation can occur.





As mentioned, after the rapture, believers appear before Christ at the judgment seat of Christ for evaluation of their works for the purpose of rewards. By the time of Revelation 19:7 the church has been made ready.



When Israel rejected Christ as the Messiah, God interrupted the age of Israel, and instituted the dispensation of the church for the purpose of calling out a body of believers of which Christ is the head. When God has determined that the body of Christ is complete, then its purpose here on earth is complete and it is taken up into Heaven. At that time, God turns His attention back to Israel and the last seven years remaining to israel, the Tribulation, begins. The purpose of the Great Tribulation is to get Israel to realize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they rejected.

God does not deal with Israel and the Church at the same time. God has a different purpose for each. Go to this link for some more information for this.

ISRAEL IS ISRAEL

Read Ephesians 5:22-33 for an understanding of marriage as related to Christ and the church.



John 7:39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified

Romans 5:5 ...through the Holy Spirit was given to us.

Romans 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.

I Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?''

1 Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you...

Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation having also believed, you were also sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14) who is given as a pledge of our inheritance...

Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, ''Abba! Father!''

1 John 3:24 ...And we know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The Holy Spirit is promised to the Church in John 16:5-15

As clearly shown by the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit indwells the body of the church age believer--the church.

Showing the Church in Heaven during the Tribulation in Revelation 19 is not an arguement from silence; it is, how can I say this? Oh yes, IT IS SHOWING THE CHURCH IN HEAVEN DURING THE TRIBULATION.



The pre-Tribulational rapture is clearly taught in Scripture.

Reasons why the Church will not go through the Great Tribulation

Doctrine of the Tribulation (by Ron Rhodes)

Anyone who is interested in the truth of the matter simply go to the above sites and absorb what they have to say about it. There are always going to be those who refuse to acknowledge the rapture of the church before the Tribulation because of Satanic attempts to confuse the issue, and many are deceived.

The rapture or resurrection of the Church is the blessed hope of believers and when the body of Christ is complete, the Lord returns to the clouds and we who are alive will meet Him in the air and we shall forever be with the Lord.

Compare 1 Thess 4:13-17 with John 14:1-3.
Mike555, all you did is restate your points and did not answer my own. You completely missed them.

If you want the 'BEING MADE READY' to refer to rewards so be it. But why would reward have anything to do the MARRIAGE. Furthermore, the timing when Jesus give his reward not only for the just but also for the unjust is at His SECOND COMING.

The reward that Christ is talking about seems to be what Rom.2:5-6 and Rev.22:12 are referring to when Christ returns. Rom.2:6, which is a quote from Ps.62:12, says ‘…you are treasuring up for yourselves wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each one according to his deeds.’ Rev.22:12, ‘And behold I am coming soon and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work.’

Also, I Peter 4:5 and I Cor.3:13-14 – ‘They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.’; and ‘…each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.’

Lastly, II Tim.4:8, 14 – ‘Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing’, ‘Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm may the Lord repay him according to his works. Also, see Lk.6:23.

No one denies that there are believers in heaven during the Tribulation which constitutes the church; your assumption is that it is complete.

Shotgunning a bunch of Scriptures about the Spirit indwelling the believer does not support a pre-trib rapture in II Thess.2

No one is denying that the resurrection is our hope - just that it happens before the Tribulation.

I have already read numerous books on the PRE-TRIB position and articles from the PRE-TRIB website - as I said before I was a PRETRIBER.
 
Old 12-04-2009, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,480,126 times
Reputation: 1737
Default A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Since the Church is in Heaven during the Tribulation, it is the Jews and unbelieving gentiles that are on the earth during the Tribulation. The first half of the Tribulation will be relatively peaceful. It is the last 3/12 years that the great judgments are poured out on those who are on the earth. The church is not among them. She has been taken up into Heaven and the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit has been removed with the Church so that the Tribulation can occur.





As mentioned, after the rapture, believers appear before Christ at the judgment seat of Christ for evaluation of their works for the purpose of rewards. By the time of Revelation 19:7 the church has been made ready.



When Israel rejected Christ as the Messiah, God interrupted the age of Israel, and instituted the dispensation of the church for the purpose of calling out a body of believers of which Christ is the head. When God has determined that the body of Christ is complete, then its purpose here on earth is complete and it is taken up into Heaven. At that time, God turns His attention back to Israel and the last seven years remaining to israel, the Tribulation, begins. The purpose of the Great Tribulation is to get Israel to realize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that they rejected.

God does not deal with Israel and the Church at the same time. God has a different purpose for each. Go to this link for some more information for this.

ISRAEL IS ISRAEL

Read Ephesians 5:22-33 for an understanding of marriage as related to Christ and the church.



John 7:39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified

Romans 5:5 ...through the Holy Spirit was given to us.

Romans 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.

I Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?''

1 Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you...

Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation having also believed, you were also sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14) who is given as a pledge of our inheritance...

Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, ''Abba! Father!''

1 John 3:24 ...And we know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The Holy Spirit is promised to the Church in John 16:5-15

As clearly shown by the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit indwells the body of the church age believer--the church.

Showing the Church in Heaven during the Tribulation in Revelation 19 is not an arguement from silence; it is, how can I say this? Oh yes, IT IS SHOWING THE CHURCH IN HEAVEN DURING THE TRIBULATION.



The pre-Tribulational rapture is clearly taught in Scripture.

Reasons why the Church will not go through the Great Tribulation

Doctrine of the Tribulation (by Ron Rhodes)

Anyone who is interested in the truth of the matter simply go to the above sites and absorb what they have to say about it. There are always going to be those who refuse to acknowledge the rapture of the church before the Tribulation because of Satanic attempts to confuse the issue, and many are deceived.

The rapture or resurrection of the Church is the blessed hope of believers and when the body of Christ is complete, the Lord returns to the clouds and we who are alive will meet Him in the air and we shall forever be with the Lord.

Compare 1 Thess 4:13-17 with John 14:1-3.
A question about your link... Here is the picture presented:

http://www.bibletruths.org/study/images/rapture1.gif (broken link)

Now... in your view.. When was the last time Israel was in captivity?

The Babylonians (coincidence that Babylon is used in Revelation ) took Judah (Jews) captive from 604-586 BC. After 70 years in captivity they returned to Jerusalem and rebuilt the temple which took 46 years according to John 2:20 (The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?"). 46+3=49 BTW.

So I have a few questions:

1. Do you believe that Israel will go into captivity (within another nation) again or that they have been in captivity until now?

2. It took 46 years to rebuild the temple (according to scripture) yet you think that it would take 49 years to rebuild it in the 21st century? We can build a Walmart in like 2 weeks.

3. In order get around that do you believe there was a 2000 year period (which would be ~287 weeks) of a gap... so that 287 weeks later the last remaining week is accomplished... Why not the 50th week right after the 49th? Like the 49th was right after the 48th?

4. Do you agree that the Church of Christ is adopted as the "new" Israel under the "new" covenant?

5. If you agree that the Church is the new Israel then why is it that you think the church is not the subject in place of Israel.. why do you separate the two if they are the same under the NEW covenant?
 
Old 12-04-2009, 04:22 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I realize that you are a futurist and I am a preterist, but even so I would lean toward a post tribulation or mid rather than pre-trib if I were a futurist... simply because of Rev. 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

How are the ones judging brought back to life after being beheaded and not taking the mark if they never went through the tribulation and died? There is really no mention of live people being resurrected as that would mean redefining resurrection but in any case.... it is clear by just this verse alone that those who reign with Christ die during the tribulation and refused the mark.
I understand your point - that for a resurrection to happen there has to be a death. But that is not the case necessarily as Paul points out in I Cor.15 when he show us a MYSTERY - we shall not all die but we shall all be changed.

There are other reason why I would consider abondoning futurism but you are right; if futurism is correct then the POST-TRIB position is what is taught.
 
Old 12-04-2009, 05:11 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,582,561 times
Reputation: 58253
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Seriously?
Here is Rev 20:4-6 perhaps that will help you to see the TRUTH:

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

See in verse 6 how it is the ones who take part in the first resurrection.. those that had not worshiped the beast and those that were not beheaded.. they are the ones who are reigning with Christ for a thousand years... So if you think that the raptured Christians are the ones seated on the thrones to judge.. well then you have to understand that those thrones were given to the disciples:

Matt 19:28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

So where does that leave your theory?

Are you just going to ignore it again?
Of course not, I never do. You must have me confused with someone else.

End Time Bible Prophecy, Rapture of His Bride.

Notice: 1 John 3:2 Shares We the sons of God, He shall appear, We shall see him as he is.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are (we the sons of God) and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that, when (he shall appear) we shall be like him, for (we shall see him as he is)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
(Watch ye) therefore,

Bride of Christ

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee (from) the (hour (Greek, hora- season) of (temptation (Greek, peirasmos- adversity or tribulation) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The prerequisite to receiving the promise in this scripture is to patiently keep His Word or put another way, to be a consistent doer of the Word, full of faith!

There are many wonderful benefits to being the Bride, but the one that is mentioned in the scripture Revelation 3:10 certainly will be a welcome blessing.

The word (From) in Greek is as "out of" (Greek word, ek) Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from.

Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from

http://cf.blb.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=1537&version=KJV

Saved Now, and From(out of) The Tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and (keep you (from) evil. AMEN.

Psalm 121:7-8
The LORD shall preserve (thee (from) all) evil: he shall preserve thy soul. The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.AMEN.

2 Timothy 4:18
And (the Lord shall deliver me (from) every) evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. AMEN.

Jesus Christ promises to keep us "from" or as the Greek word reads, "out of" the season of tribulation that is about to come upon the whole world to try all those that are left behind to dwell upon the earth.
----------------------------------------------------------
(Watch ye) therefore,

worthy to (escape) all these things that shall come to pass,

(escape)as Rapture

Luke 21:34-36
(And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares)

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

(36Watch ye) therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to (escape) all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

(Escape) Genesis 19:22, Psalm 71:2 (The snare is broken, Escaped Psalm 124:7-8)

king Jesus Christ, Warned in this prophecy, Take heed to yourselves, lest at anytime your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting (overindulgence)and drunkenness, and the cares of this life, so that day come upon you unawares.(Watch ye) therefore, and (pray always) that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things .

(Luke 21:34-36) Here, in praying always, it is the Christians that are instructed to be sober, and not to be overtaken with overindulgence, and the cares of this life, not just the unbeliever (1 Thessalonians 5:6-8) First, note that unbelievers do not believe.

Secondly, unbelievers do not pray,and Worship God! nor will they pray always, and Watch which is an explicit Christian directive for saved Christians to be Watching in preparation for King Jesus Christ! Lest That Day overtake them unawares.

We must continue to share, and teach the Powerful Gospel with anyone, and everyone at all Times!

One must remember to Pray the Christian, Back sliders, Lukewarm (Revelation 3:16) and the unbelievers need to Repent (Acts 3:19) Wake up (Romans 13:11-14) Abide in Him (1 John 2:28-29) and Obey (Hebrews 5:9)

Also we must continue to share, and teach that the Christians need to be Wise, As shared in (Proverbs 21:20) and Wake up (Romans 13:11-14) Watch for Jesus Christ (Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, Revelation 3:3) and Abide (1 John 2:28-29)

One must walk with God at all Times! Abide, Dabaq(Hebrew)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
(Watching) for our Blessed Hope,

(Watching) for our Blessed Hope, Jesus Christ to Rapture us to the New Jerusalem(Heaven) (Blessed) are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find (watching) as shared in Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, and Revelation 16:15 We are told many Times in the Bible to WATCH, and Notice Revelation 3:3 Shares those who are not Watching, He will come like a Thief. Now is the Time to Watch for King Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing! Infact if you Love his Appearing (Rapture) you will receive a Special Crown! as Shared in 2 Timothy 4:8

Those that, looketh not for him... As those who are not Watching, and abiding,

My lord delayeth his coming, As those who are not Watching, and abiding, and As those who are not Pre-trib, Pre tribulation rapture(Rapture before the Tribulation)


I Watch, and Abide in King Jesus Christ.AMEN.


The WISE, and The FOOLISH (Be WISE)

Shared from Matthew 24:42-51, and Luke 12:42-46

Matthew 24:45-46 faithful and wise servant, Blessed is that servant(WISE) The WISE WATCH, and Abide.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, (My lord delayeth his coming (FOOLISH)

Matthew 24:50 (looketh not for him) and in an hour that he is not aware of (FOOLISH)

Luke 12:42-43 faithful and wise servant, Blessed is that servant (WISE) The WISE WATCH, and Abide.

Luke 12:45-46 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart (My lord delayeth his coming (FOOLISH)

Luke 12:46 looketh not for him) and in an hour that he is not aware of (FOOLISH)

Now is the Time to WATCH for the Lord Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing!

Infact if you Love his Appearing you will receive a Special Crown!

2 Timothy 4:8

Henceforth there is laid up for me a (crown) of righteousness) which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only but (unto all them also that love his appearing)

Revelation 3:11

(Behold,I come quickly)
hold that fast which thou hast, (that no man take thy (crown)

Watch, and Abide in King Jesus Christ.

Titus 2:13 Keep your Blessed HOPE, (that no man take thy (crown)

Take a stand in what you believe Pre-trib, Pre tribulation rapture(Rapture before the Tribulation)

Titus 2:13 (Looking) for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

Always Keep Looking, Watching for King Jesus Christ.

*To read more about the Bride of Christ! Visit Rapture Prophecy, and read the webpage called(Rapture of his Bride) Rapture prophecy

http://www.raptureprophecy.com

Also the webpage called(Remember Lot's Wife) has been updated, and it's an interesting read, backed by scripture.
------------------------------------------------------------

Saved After the Rapture, But Oh the Cost!

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is the grand event for the espoused bride of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There will be millions of lukewarm, indifferent, and carnal people that will miss this glorious moment.
 
Old 12-04-2009, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,480,126 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Of course not, I never do. You must have me confused with someone else.

End Time Bible Prophecy, Rapture of His Bride.

Notice: 1 John 3:2 Shares We the sons of God, He shall appear, We shall see him as he is.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are (we the sons of God) and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that, when (he shall appear) we shall be like him, for (we shall see him as he is)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
(Watch ye) therefore,

Bride of Christ

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee (from) the (hour (Greek, hora- season) of (temptation (Greek, peirasmos- adversity or tribulation) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The prerequisite to receiving the promise in this scripture is to patiently keep His Word or put another way, to be a consistent doer of the Word, full of faith!

There are many wonderful benefits to being the Bride, but the one that is mentioned in the scripture Revelation 3:10 certainly will be a welcome blessing.

The word (From) in Greek is as "out of" (Greek word, ek) Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from.

Strong's Number: 1537 out of, away from

http://cf.blb.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=1537&version=KJV

Saved Now, and From(out of) The Tribulation.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and (keep you (from) evil. AMEN.

Psalm 121:7-8
The LORD shall preserve (thee (from) all) evil: he shall preserve thy soul. The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.AMEN.

2 Timothy 4:18
And (the Lord shall deliver me (from) every) evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. AMEN.

Jesus Christ promises to keep us "from" or as the Greek word reads, "out of" the season of tribulation that is about to come upon the whole world to try all those that are left behind to dwell upon the earth.
----------------------------------------------------------
(Watch ye) therefore,

worthy to (escape) all these things that shall come to pass,

(escape)as Rapture

Luke 21:34-36
(And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares)

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

(36Watch ye) therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to (escape) all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

(Escape) Genesis 19:22, Psalm 71:2 (The snare is broken, Escaped Psalm 124:7-8)

king Jesus Christ, Warned in this prophecy, Take heed to yourselves, lest at anytime your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting (overindulgence)and drunkenness, and the cares of this life, so that day come upon you unawares.(Watch ye) therefore, and (pray always) that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things .

(Luke 21:34-36) Here, in praying always, it is the Christians that are instructed to be sober, and not to be overtaken with overindulgence, and the cares of this life, not just the unbeliever (1 Thessalonians 5:6-8) First, note that unbelievers do not believe.

Secondly, unbelievers do not pray,and Worship God! nor will they pray always, and Watch which is an explicit Christian directive for saved Christians to be Watching in preparation for King Jesus Christ! Lest That Day overtake them unawares.

We must continue to share, and teach the Powerful Gospel with anyone, and everyone at all Times!

One must remember to Pray the Christian, Back sliders, Lukewarm (Revelation 3:16) and the unbelievers need to Repent (Acts 3:19) Wake up (Romans 13:11-14) Abide in Him (1 John 2:28-29) and Obey (Hebrews 5:9)

Also we must continue to share, and teach that the Christians need to be Wise, As shared in (Proverbs 21:20) and Wake up (Romans 13:11-14) Watch for Jesus Christ (Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, Revelation 3:3) and Abide (1 John 2:28-29)

One must walk with God at all Times! Abide, Dabaq(Hebrew)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
(Watching) for our Blessed Hope,

(Watching) for our Blessed Hope, Jesus Christ to Rapture us to the New Jerusalem(Heaven) (Blessed) are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find (watching) as shared in Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, and Revelation 16:15 We are told many Times in the Bible to WATCH, and Notice Revelation 3:3 Shares those who are not Watching, He will come like a Thief. Now is the Time to Watch for King Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing! Infact if you Love his Appearing (Rapture) you will receive a Special Crown! as Shared in 2 Timothy 4:8

Those that, looketh not for him... As those who are not Watching, and abiding,

My lord delayeth his coming, As those who are not Watching, and abiding, and As those who are not Pre-trib, Pre tribulation rapture(Rapture before the Tribulation)


I Watch, and Abide in King Jesus Christ.AMEN.


The WISE, and The FOOLISH (Be WISE)

Shared from Matthew 24:42-51, and Luke 12:42-46

Matthew 24:45-46 faithful and wise servant, Blessed is that servant(WISE) The WISE WATCH, and Abide.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, (My lord delayeth his coming (FOOLISH)

Matthew 24:50 (looketh not for him) and in an hour that he is not aware of (FOOLISH)

Luke 12:42-43 faithful and wise servant, Blessed is that servant (WISE) The WISE WATCH, and Abide.

Luke 12:45-46 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart (My lord delayeth his coming (FOOLISH)

Luke 12:46 looketh not for him) and in an hour that he is not aware of (FOOLISH)

Now is the Time to WATCH for the Lord Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing!

Infact if you Love his Appearing you will receive a Special Crown!

2 Timothy 4:8

Henceforth there is laid up for me a (crown) of righteousness) which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only but (unto all them also that love his appearing)

Revelation 3:11

(Behold,I come quickly)
hold that fast which thou hast, (that no man take thy (crown)

Watch, and Abide in King Jesus Christ.

Titus 2:13 Keep your Blessed HOPE, (that no man take thy (crown)

Take a stand in what you believe Pre-trib, Pre tribulation rapture(Rapture before the Tribulation)

Titus 2:13 (Looking) for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

Always Keep Looking, Watching for King Jesus Christ.

*To read more about the Bride of Christ! Visit Rapture Prophecy, and read the webpage called(Rapture of his Bride) Rapture prophecy

http://www.raptureprophecy.com

Also the webpage called(Remember Lot's Wife) has been updated, and it's an interesting read, backed by scripture.
------------------------------------------------------------

Saved After the Rapture, But Oh the Cost!

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is the grand event for the espoused bride of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There will be millions of lukewarm, indifferent, and carnal people that will miss this glorious moment.
So you choose to ignore it....okay.. Peace
 
Old 12-04-2009, 05:53 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,941 posts, read 26,170,830 times
Reputation: 16099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Mike555, all you did is restate your points and did not answer my own. You completely missed them.

If you want the 'BEING MADE READY' to refer to rewards so be it. But why would reward have anything to do the MARRIAGE. Furthermore, the timing when Jesus give his reward not only for the just but also for the unjust is at His SECOND COMING.

The reward that Christ is talking about seems to be what Rom.2:5-6 and Rev.22:12 are referring to when Christ returns. Rom.2:6, which is a quote from Ps.62:12, says ‘…you are treasuring up for yourselves wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each one according to his deeds.’ Rev.22:12, ‘And behold I am coming soon and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work.’

Also, I Peter 4:5 and I Cor.3:13-14 – ‘They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.’; and ‘…each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.’

Lastly, II Tim.4:8, 14 – ‘Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing’, ‘Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm may the Lord repay him according to his works. Also, see Lk.6:23.

No one denies that there are believers in heaven during the Tribulation which constitutes the church; your assumption is that it is complete.

Shotgunning a bunch of Scriptures about the Spirit indwelling the believer does not support a pre-trib rapture in II Thess.2
No one is denying that the resurrection is our hope - just that it happens before the Tribulation.

I have already read numerous books on the PRE-TRIB position and articles from the PRE-TRIB website - as I said before I was a PRETRIBER.
Those verses about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit were to put the lie to your claim that the Bible doesn't say anything about the Holy Spirit indwelling the church.

I have provided two very good sites that go into detail about why the church doesn't go through the Tribulation. I doubt that you will bother to look at them. They are there for those who are interested in the Biblical truth of the pre-Tribulational rapture. People who believe in a post Tribulational or a mid Tribulational rapture have no knowledge of the principles involved. And trying to get them to see the truth is like trying to nail jellow to a wall.

For all who have the sense to recognize the reality of the pre-Tribulational rapture, continue to wait on the Lord. In His time, it will occur. Maybe in your lifetime, or maybe not. If not, then you will simply go through the rapture from the other side. Instead of being caught up into the clouds, you will accompany Christ from Heaven as He returns to the clouds and receive your resurrection bodies.

Let those who deny continue to deny. Let those with eyes to see and ears to hear come to an understanding of the truth.
 
Old 12-04-2009, 06:09 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Those verses about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit were to put the lie to your claim that the Bible doesn't say anything about the Holy Spirit indwelling the church.

I have provided two very good sites that go into detail about why the church doesn't go through the Tribulation. I doubt that you will bother to look at them. They are there for those who are interested in the Biblical truth of the pre-Tribulational rapture. People who believe in a post Tribulational or a mid Tribulational rapture have no knowledge of the principles involved. And trying to get them to see the truth is like trying to nail jellow to a wall.

For all who have the sense to recognize the reality of the pre-Tribulational rapture, continue to wait on the Lord. In His time, it will occur. Maybe in your lifetime, or maybe not. If not, then you will simply go through the rapture from the other side. Instead of being caught up into the clouds, you will accompany Christ from Heaven as He returns to the clouds and receive your resurrection bodies.

Let those who deny continue to deny. Let those with eyes to see and ears to hear come to an understanding of the truth.
So now I am a liar?

Plese quote me, where did I say that the Holy Spirit does not indwell the Church.

Here is where you are getting your FALSE ACCUSATIONS (which are by the way SIN) from: Here is my whole qoute. Maybe if you read peoples posts instead jumping upon them in your pride and arrogance you would not make such mistakes.

'Your interpretation of II Thess.2 is a complete inference and pre-trib bias. Nowhere does it say anything about the Holy Spirit indwelling the Church and that she must be raptured out of the world before a tribulation.'

DO YOU SEE THE RED PART> GOOD!!! II Thess.2 does not say anything about the HS indwellling the Church. Seeing that you are unable to understand context it is no wonder that you are a pretriber.

NOW I WOULD EXPECT THAT A MAN OF GOD WOULD APOLOGIZE. In fact your highlighted blues part was what you quoted and you still did not understand - go figure.

I have already read those sites - do you not understand that I told you that before - I was a PRETRIBER for 15 years. I still go to a PRETRIB church. So I know the arguments for PRE-TRIB. They are contrived.
 
Old 12-04-2009, 06:59 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,582,561 times
Reputation: 58253
Regardless of the naysayers, this is my thread and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there will be a pre-tribulation Rapture. It will be mysterioius, it will be explained away and I started this thread because it will be happening soon. I'm providing links to a great site and also a link to their discussion board. It will be very informative and helpful to anyone with questions about prophecy and the Rapture.

www.raptureready.com

www.rr-bb.com
 
Old 12-04-2009, 07:14 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,941 posts, read 26,170,830 times
Reputation: 16099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
So now I am a liar?

Plese quote me, where did I say that the Holy Spirit does not indwell the Church.

Here is where you are getting your FALSE ACCUSATIONS (which are by the way SIN) from: Here is my whole qoute. Maybe if you read peoples posts instead jumping upon them in your pride and arrogance you would not make such mistakes.

'Your interpretation of II Thess.2 is a complete inference and pre-trib bias. Nowhere does it say anything about the Holy Spirit indwelling the Church and that she must be raptured out of the world before a tribulation.'

DO YOU SEE THE RED PART> GOOD!!! II Thess.2 does not say anything about the HS indwellling the Church. Seeing that you are unable to understand context it is no wonder that you are a pretriber.

NOW I WOULD EXPECT THAT A MAN OF GOD WOULD APOLOGIZE. In fact your highlighted blues part was what you quoted and you still did not understand - go figure.

I have already read those sites - do you not understand that I told you that before - I was a PRETRIBER for 15 years. I still go to a PRETRIB church. So I know the arguments for PRE-TRIB. They are contrived.
2 Thess 2:7 is in reference to the Holy Spirit who is the restraining influence that is preventing the antichrist from making his appearance. His title of Holy Spirit simply isn't used here.

In 2 Thessalonians 2

The phrase 'putting the lie to your claim' simply means that the claim is false. Not necessarily that the one making the claim is a liar. One can speak falsely from a state of ignorance. Therefore, a person may not be a liar, he may simply be ignorant. No apology is necessary.

There is no contrivence. This is a Biblical truth. You have simply chosen to disregard the truth and have been deceived. But no one is trying to convince you of your error. What I have presented is for those who are interested in the truth of the matter.

There is much material available for anyone who is interested in researching it. You need only do so.

And the video that Ilene posted is for those who may see it after the rapture so that they may come to know Christ.
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