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Would love to know how Job was disobedient? Who God was talking to in heaven?
This is the kind of thing that happens when one reads and takes the book literally. I see this book as an allegory. God gave Job trials and tribulations, He salted him with fire, he tested him (the same as He does to us)....and Job kept his eyes on God and was blessed by that. Job understood that ALL THINGS come from God whether good or bad and we have to work through them ALL by keeping our focus and faith on God because God only does these things to perfect us.
This is the kind of thing that happens when one reads and takes the book literally. I see this book as an allegory. God gave Job trials and tribulations, He salted him with fire, he tested him (the same as He does to us)....and Job kept his eyes on God and was blessed by that. Job understood that ALL THINGS come from God whether good or bad and we have to work through them ALL by keeping our focus and faith on God because God only does these things to perfect us.
That's your first mistake. THERE ARE NO ALLEGORIES IN THE BIBLE! and I understand all that what you said from a literal sense but what does your answer have to do with what I asked? how was Job disobedient as Tritep pointed out what the devil is?
That's your first mistake. THERE ARE NO ALLEGORIES IN THE BIBLE! and I understand all that what you said from a literal sense but what does your answer have to do with what I asked? how was Job disobedient as Tritep pointed out what the devil is?
I don't see that Job was disobedient at all....like I said, it showed to me that bad things happen to good people and when we keep our focus and faith on God we will be more godly people for the trials we endure.
People like to blame this satan dude because they cannot accept that they err. If people would realize that no one can make them do anything, satan would no longer exists in their minds. The real satan has been eliminated. He is no more. Neither is Lucifer. What we are seeing to day is just reminants of their existance. They don't harm people, people harm themselves.
Last time I checked it was the serpent in the garden who deceived Eve...tempted her..not Adam or her own flesh. We are no different than other living creatures here on earth. Look at our bodies..they are cells composed into tissues then onto organs which in turn form our entire body. Look at a dog, frog, insect, or fish...we are all living organs and tissues of cells.
So when does the Bible say that Satan is no more?? The Bible speaks about Satan even in the book of Revelation...no where have I read that Satan is no more in the Bible.
You cannot accept that we all make errors and its part of who we are not because some girl ate from a forbidden tree in a garden. The Bible says do not kill...we kill...dogs kill...birds kill...the bacteria and viruses that cause HIV, Cancer, Malaria, Tuberculosis..etc..etc..KILL
Some creatures kill their own even...if a human kills another human for other than self defense you would say its a sin..why do animals commit the same acts? Are they sinners too?
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
God promises us trials and tribulations, He will allow us to go through trials and tribulations even give the devil if we are in his crosshairs access to us in order to either strengthen us, weaken us, humble us etc... for His purpose.
Listen to what you are saying...what kind of loving Father would let his children fall under temptation, let alone sin while falling into temptation.
I thought God abominated Sin...why would he want us to be tempted?
We are talking about God...He is all powerful..all Knowing God..if you had the ability to give wisdom, safety, strength, humility, health and intelligence to your son or daughter you would do it in a heartbeat. What mother would pass off that type of opportunity for her children...let alone God.
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sometimes we can't fully understand the things He does but if we could then He wouldn't be God, would He? but who are we the creation to judge the creator?
God spoke to Adam, Eve, Moses, Noah, David, Jonah and several others in the Bible...why doesnt he talk to us or at least one of us and tells us the meaning of his doings. If he loves his children...why would he allow them to doubt in him once they are saved?
The reason you dont understand his doings is because if we think rationally, they really dont make any sense. Believers will say one thing, then questions are asked and disprove them so believers will raise the bar or switch their answer to fit what their minds want them to think. Look at how many denominations of Christianity there are...one Bible...or many Bibles now days but it all started with Adam...then Abraham..David...later Jesus..why do we have so many people believing in the same God but in very different ways?? Oh yea...because their is a different mind behind each interpretation.
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leads me to believe your sunday school didn't do a very good job teaching you which is why statistics show more children who went to sunday school fall out of the faith at your age moreso than kids who never went to sunday school.
How does my sunday school reflect who I am and whether or not I truly believed in Jesus and God? A child was not teaching me about the Bible..it was an adult just like you..with the same Bible that you have. Two Algebra professors in two different schools with the same text book will not cause student A to learn true Algebra while student B learns false Algebra...nor Student C through Z. Dont try to argue that my Sunday school teacher did not know the word of God so well because the word of God (remember hes is all intelligent) should be understandable by anyone...not someone who has a better relationship with God..not someone who spent years studying the word of God..ANYONE.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
The Bible clearly states that God loved the entire world..not just you and those who believe like you..but everyone. A teenager in Colombia should be able to read the word of God (remember they are Gods words) and find salvation. But more than likely his ideas about what the Bible says will vary comparing them to yours because again there are two different mind involved.
Okay so now we shouldnt send our children to Sunday school because according to some statistic God only saves children who didnt go to Sunday School?
Where did you come up with that? Oh yea...your head.
Explain to me why children with mutations, defects and even HIV are born today? Imagine if your child who was born today only to find that he/she has cancer or some type of mutation like this one. If God loves the entire world why would he allow a child to suffer like this? And its not just this one but hundreds that are born in each year. Why should this mother feel the pain that it is to see her own child like this?
Do you think that is love? The Bible says "God is love" John 4:8. Find me someone...anyone...in your church even who thinks allowing a child to be born like this is actual love.
satan is not those things, but rather that satan is you and me when we are disobedient. In other words, that it was adam talking to eve and convinced her to take the forbidden fruit but more specifically it was the disobedience in adam that was talking to eve. So the reason you don't see satan doing all those other things is because satan is no different than disobedient me and you. because satan is collectively man's disobedient nature.
Last time I checked it was the serpent in the garden who deceived Eve...tempted her..not Adam or her own flesh. We are no different than other living creatures here on earth. Look at our bodies..they are cells composed into tissues then onto organs which in turn form our entire body. Look at a dog, frog, insect, or fish...we are all living organs and tissues of cells.
So when does the Bible say that Satan is no more?? The Bible speaks about Satan even in the book of Revelation...no where have I read that Satan is no more in the Bible.
You cannot accept that we all make errors and its part of who we are not because some girl ate from a forbidden tree in a garden. The Bible says do not kill...we kill...dogs kill...birds kill...the bacteria and viruses that cause HIV, Cancer, Malaria, Tuberculosis..etc..etc..KILL
Some creatures kill their own even...if a human kills another human for other than self defense you would say its a sin..why do animals commit the same acts? Are they sinners too?
Listen to what you are saying...what kind of loving Father would let his children fall under temptation, let alone sin while falling into temptation.
I thought God abominated Sin...why would he want us to be tempted?
We are talking about God...He is all powerful..all Knowing God..if you had the ability to give wisdom, safety, strength, humility, health and intelligence to your son or daughter you would do it in a heartbeat. What mother would pass off that type of opportunity for her children...let alone God.
God spoke to Adam, Eve, Moses, Noah, David, Jonah and several others in the Bible...why doesnt he talk to us or at least one of us and tells us the meaning of his doings. If he loves his children...why would he allow them to doubt in him once they are saved?
The reason you dont understand his doings is because if we think rationally, they really dont make any sense. Believers will say one thing, then questions are asked and disprove them so believers will raise the bar or switch their answer to fit what their minds want them to think. Look at how many denominations of Christianity there are...one Bible...or many Bibles now days but it all started with Adam...then Abraham..David...later Jesus..why do we have so many people believing in the same God but in very different ways?? Oh yea...because their is a different mind behind each interpretation.
How does my sunday school reflect who I am and whether or not I truly believed in Jesus and God? A child was not teaching me about the Bible..it was an adult just like you..with the same Bible that you have. Two Algebra professors in two different schools with the same text book will not cause student A to learn true Algebra while student B learns false Algebra...nor Student C through Z. Dont try to argue that my Sunday school teacher did not know the word of God so well because the word of God (remember hes is all intelligent) should be understandable by anyone...not someone who has a better relationship with God..not someone who spent years studying the word of God..ANYONE.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
The Bible clearly states that God loved the entire world..not just you and those who believe like you..but everyone. A teenager in Colombia should be able to read the word of God (remember they are Gods words) and find salvation. But more than likely his ideas about what the Bible says will vary comparing them to yours because again there are two different mind involved.
Okay so now we shouldnt send our children to Sunday school because according to some statistic God only saves children who didnt go to Sunday School?
Where did you come up with that? Oh yea...your head.
Explain to me why children with mutations, defects and even HIV are born today? Imagine if your child who was born today only to find that he/she has cancer or some type of mutation like this one. If God loves the entire world why would he allow a child to suffer like this? And its not just this one but hundreds that are born in each year. Why should this mother feel the pain that it is to see her own child like this?
Do you think that is love? The Bible says "God is love" John 4:8. Find me someone...anyone...in your church even who thinks allowing a child to be born like this is actual love.
First of all, I don't read the bible. I have moved beyond that to that which is a better description of God and the heavens. Those same messages tell me that Satan and Lucifer are gone. No more. Annihilated.
Second, God is a God of Love. Period. We brought destruction to this world and it's up to us to take it out. God will not do it for us.
Third, babies are born because we are mere material creatures, living in a rebellion world, and until we bring Light and Life to this planet, we will see all kinds of man-made atrocities. God didn't make us deformed or anything else. We are perfect. The material body is only for here. That pic you posted is only of the material and not the spiritual. When that baby dies, it will not look that way. We put too much emphasis on the material when we should all be thinking of the spiritual. That baby is perfect to God but all we see is the outside shell. When you open your soul to love, Divine Love, you, too, will see that. I saw a child of God, what did you see. She/he is beautiful.
This is the kind of thing that happens when one reads and takes the book literally. I see this book as an allegory. God gave Job trials and tribulations, He salted him with fire, he tested him (the same as He does to us)....and Job kept his eyes on God and was blessed by that. Job understood that ALL THINGS come from God whether good or bad and we have to work through them ALL by keeping our focus and faith on God because God only does these things to perfect us.
There are so many irrational statements with this response I dont even know where to begin.
When was the last time you picked up a book and did not try to understand the book literally? According to you, God is all knowing...so God should have known that many of us would not get to study the Bible so thoroughly..why did he write it as an Allegory?
Oh yea...because you came up with that conclusion in your head...no where does the Bible state "The words of God written here are an Allegory"...would make sense to include that if you were writing a book in that form.
First of all, I don't read the bible. I have moved beyond that to that which is a better description of God and the heavens. Those same messages tell me that Satan and Lucifer are gone. No more. Annihilated.
Second, God is a God of Love. Period. We brought destruction to this world and it's up to us to take it out. God will not do it for us.
Third, babies are born because we are mere material creatures, living in a rebellion world, and until we bring Light and Life to this planet, we will see all kinds of man-made atrocities. God didn't make us deformed or anything else. We are perfect. The material body is only for here. That pic you posted is only of the material and not the spiritual. When that baby dies, it will not look that way. We put too much emphasis on the material when we should all be thinking of the spiritual. That baby is perfect to God but all we see is the outside shell. When you open your soul to love, Divine Love, you, too, will see that. I saw a child of God, what did you see. She/he is beautiful.
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Did you not understand the part where I talked about the biology and composition of our bodies?
Where is your evidence that we have a soul?
Your head?
If I shoot you in the leg..you probably wont die..same with a dog but if I shoot either one of you in the head you will both die. What makes you think you have a soul and a dog does not?
So you are saying God only loves you and that is why millions of other people are still reading the Bible but you have uncovered the better description?
How do you propose that we take out the destruction in this world?
So our Father God who knows we are all sinners does not want to take out the evil but just wants to watch us get tempted and destroy it even more?
When the Bible was written, according to man, God was the only one able to destroy the world but man has learned to be rational and use logic that we now too have the power to destroy the word. With disease, pandemics and even nuclear weapons.
Again show me proof of the existence of the spiritual because I have a lot of proof the existence of the material.
AWESOME Post...I tried to rep you but couldn't. You are exactly correct....satan is US (our carnal nature). If more people would realize this and own it instead of trying to blame some mythical creature for why they behave badly...we would all be more aware of the way we act and respond to others. A little self-control goes a long way.
Mythical creature??? So you don't believe the Bible???
People can ACT like Satan, follow Satan, and be children of the devil, but where did you get the idea that we ARE Satan? Yes, the carnal nature is bad, but it is not Satan.
I don't see that Job was disobedient at all....like I said, it showed to me that bad things happen to good people and when we keep our focus and faith on God we will be more godly people for the trials we endure.
OR MAYBE it shows that good things and bad things happen to everyone in the world
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