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Old 12-10-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: USA
18 posts, read 21,946 times
Reputation: 17

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The following is an interesting question asked by a young Christian woman on our church's site.

"I have heard from a lot of men that they want a woman like the one in Proverbs 31, a woman with a “quiet spirit”, or quoting the description of a wife’s duties in Ephesians 5:22-24. There is so much of “here is what I want,” and almost none of “this is what I am”, be it by Biblical or shallow standards. I have had first conversations that have been like interrogations and chats that are one-sided interviews, complaints that he just cannot find a good woman."

But what about you, brothers, potential husbands and fathers? Being the head of the body does not give you a position of power, but a responsibility for righteousness.

There is no perfect woman, but will you still “present her to [yourself] as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless”? (Eph.) “A loving doe, a graceful deer”? (Proverbs 5:19) Beauty is fleeting, but will her body “satisfy you always,” and will you “ever be captivated by her love”? (Prov. 5:19)

What of your responsibilities listed around the scriptures you love to quote?"

This was my response to her:

“There is no perfect woman, but will you still “present her to [yourself] as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless”? = Can a man desire that which he has not seen (understood) personally his own self? Can someone with a plank in their own eye, remove a speck of dust from someone else’s eye? That is simply not possible. As a man and a husband, you can only lead your wife in as much as you’ve been led by Christ - your own Spiritual Headship and Covering. Apart from that process, a man or husband will only be able to put on an act that will be ineffective over time, and lead to an eventual breakdown within the marriage relationship.

“A loving doe, a graceful deer - may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love.” = These verses are the results of Ephesians 5:25-30 taking place in the man 1st. This cannot come about apart from that process. If a husband’s desire and longing for his wife is not fueled by revealing Christ in her (as Christ’s is for the church) through the washing of God’s Word, then his desire for her physically will fade as her physical beauty fades, instead of becoming greater and greater as Christ is revealed in her more and more.
And a wife will not be loved.

Many men do not understand Proverbs 31 unless they themselves have given themselves as weaker vessels willingly to Christ, their Headship (their Spiritual Husband) and to the same process described in Ephesians chapter 5: 25-30. 1 Corinthians 11:3 clearly states that the Head of every man is Christ, just as the head of the woman is man. In this way, many verses that apply to women, apply to men 1st in relation to Christ. All men are actually feminine in relation to the masculinity of Christ, meaning that they themselves are weaker vessels.

This is in no way an attempt to alter the written Word of God, but an example of an implied meaning, which I believe to already exist within it....
Proverbs 31:10-31

A husband of noble character who can find? He is worth far more than rubies. His Spiritual Husband (Christ) has full confidence in him and lacks nothing of value. He brings Christ’s Body (the church) good, not harm, all the days of his life. He selects wool and flax (things used to make coverings – spiritual coverings) and works with eager hands. He is like the merchant ships, bringing his food (spiritual food) from afar. He gets up while it is still dark (like Christ); he provides food (spiritually and physically) for his family and portions for his fellow servants. He considers a field and buys it (where to sow spiritually); out of his earnings (the faith he’s been given) he plants a vineyard (to bear spiritual and physical fruit). He sets about his work vigorously; his arms are strong for his tasks. He sees that his trading is profitable (where his time, life and effort has been spent), and his lamp does not go out at night (Christ in him does not fail in the darkness). In his hand he holds the distaff and grasps the spindle with his fingers (again things used to make coverings – of righteousness for himself and others). He opens his arms to the poor and extends his hands to the needy (like Christ). When it snows, he has no fear for his household; for all of them are clothed in scarlet (results of having spiritually covered his family with Christ, though the world around them grows colder). He makes coverings for his bed (of righteousness); he is clothed in fine linen and purple (Royalty/ Christ). His Spiritual Husband/ Headship is respected at the city gate, where HE (Christ) takes HIS seat among the elders of the land (as their Headship). He makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes (he works for that, which is eternal and is provided for by God). He is clothed with Strength and Dignity (Christ Himself); he can laugh at the days to come (for he trusts and is provided for by the Lord). He speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on his tongue. He watches over the affairs of his household (including the church) and does not eat the bread of idleness (feed from the world). His children (spiritual children) arise and call him blessed; his wife also, and she praises him: Many men do noble things, but you surpass them all." Charm is deceptive, and physical appeal is fleeting; but a man who fears the LORD is to be praised. Give him the reward he has earned, and let his works bring him praise at the city gate (God honors those who honor Him).
God bless
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:39 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,529,046 times
Reputation: 144
Can a man cleanse his ways when the media and the world around him hype up the sex appeal as in the pride of life?

Do women go to church in modest apparels?

Is it any wonder how many christian marriages suffer and lead to divorces?

I know that we live in a free country as opposed to those believers under persecution in other countries, but at least there, their guards are not let down. Here in America, it is.

Believers today are suffering unaware from the passive persecution that seeks to corrupt us through the media. Therefore the call is to put on Christ and not make any provision for the flesh to fulfill the lust thereof.

And while everyone is at it, whomever one is attracted to... consider their state as well living in USA, as we ought to love one another in seeking their good in the Lord as well. Are we influenced by a self serving society or are we influenced by Christ to serve others?

As we seek our relationship with God through Jesus Christ, let us have confidence that Jesus as Our Good Shepherd shall prepare us and enable us in all relationships to love others as we love ourselves, and hold to the fact that as we do unto the least of the brethren or by the desire of our heart in seeking our spouse, we do so unto Jesus' sister or unto His brother.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
1,959 posts, read 4,641,664 times
Reputation: 919
I have the perfect Biblical wife.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,234,778 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by seeking manna View Post
The following is an interesting question asked by a young Christian woman on our church's site.

"I have heard from a lot of men that they want a woman like the one in Proverbs 31, a woman with a “quiet spirit”, or quoting the description of a wife’s duties in Ephesians 5:22-24. There is so much of “here is what I want,” and almost none of “this is what I am”, be it by Biblical or shallow standards. I have had first conversations that have been like interrogations and chats that are one-sided interviews, complaints that he just cannot find a good woman."

But what about you, brothers, potential husbands and fathers? Being the head of the body does not give you a position of power, but a responsibility for righteousness.

There is no perfect woman, but will you still “present her to [yourself] as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless”? (Eph.) “A loving doe, a graceful deer”? (Proverbs 5:19) Beauty is fleeting, but will her body “satisfy you always,” and will you “ever be captivated by her love”? (Prov. 5:19)

What of your responsibilities listed around the scriptures you love to quote?"

This was my response to her:

“There is no perfect woman, but will you still “present her to [yourself] as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless”? = Can a man desire that which he has not seen (understood) personally his own self? Can someone with a plank in their own eye, remove a speck of dust from someone else’s eye? That is simply not possible. As a man and a husband, you can only lead your wife in as much as you’ve been led by Christ - your own Spiritual Headship and Covering. Apart from that process, a man or husband will only be able to put on an act that will be ineffective over time, and lead to an eventual breakdown within the marriage relationship.

“A loving doe, a graceful deer - may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love.” = These verses are the results of Ephesians 5:25-30 taking place in the man 1st. This cannot come about apart from that process. If a husband’s desire and longing for his wife is not fueled by revealing Christ in her (as Christ’s is for the church) through the washing of God’s Word, then his desire for her physically will fade as her physical beauty fades, instead of becoming greater and greater as Christ is revealed in her more and more.
And a wife will not be loved.

Many men do not understand Proverbs 31 unless they themselves have given themselves as weaker vessels willingly to Christ, their Headship (their Spiritual Husband) and to the same process described in Ephesians chapter 5: 25-30. 1 Corinthians 11:3 clearly states that the Head of every man is Christ, just as the head of the woman is man. In this way, many verses that apply to women, apply to men 1st in relation to Christ. All men are actually feminine in relation to the masculinity of Christ, meaning that they themselves are weaker vessels.

This is in no way an attempt to alter the written Word of God, but an example of an implied meaning, which I believe to already exist within it....
Proverbs 31:10-31

A husband of noble character who can find? He is worth far more than rubies. His Spiritual Husband (Christ) has full confidence in him and lacks nothing of value. He brings Christ’s Body (the church) good, not harm, all the days of his life. He selects wool and flax (things used to make coverings – spiritual coverings) and works with eager hands. He is like the merchant ships, bringing his food (spiritual food) from afar. He gets up while it is still dark (like Christ); he provides food (spiritually and physically) for his family and portions for his fellow servants. He considers a field and buys it (where to sow spiritually); out of his earnings (the faith he’s been given) he plants a vineyard (to bear spiritual and physical fruit). He sets about his work vigorously; his arms are strong for his tasks. He sees that his trading is profitable (where his time, life and effort has been spent), and his lamp does not go out at night (Christ in him does not fail in the darkness). In his hand he holds the distaff and grasps the spindle with his fingers (again things used to make coverings – of righteousness for himself and others). He opens his arms to the poor and extends his hands to the needy (like Christ). When it snows, he has no fear for his household; for all of them are clothed in scarlet (results of having spiritually covered his family with Christ, though the world around them grows colder). He makes coverings for his bed (of righteousness); he is clothed in fine linen and purple (Royalty/ Christ). His Spiritual Husband/ Headship is respected at the city gate, where HE (Christ) takes HIS seat among the elders of the land (as their Headship). He makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes (he works for that, which is eternal and is provided for by God). He is clothed with Strength and Dignity (Christ Himself); he can laugh at the days to come (for he trusts and is provided for by the Lord). He speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on his tongue. He watches over the affairs of his household (including the church) and does not eat the bread of idleness (feed from the world). His children (spiritual children) arise and call him blessed; his wife also, and she praises him: Many men do noble things, but you surpass them all." Charm is deceptive, and physical appeal is fleeting; but a man who fears the LORD is to be praised. Give him the reward he has earned, and let his works bring him praise at the city gate (God honors those who honor Him).
God bless
...this is spirit filled...loving... pure...eloquent...uplifting...encouraging...
inspiring...full of grace and tenderness...and my heart and spirit receive it well...thank you again seeking manna, I appreciate it.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,723 posts, read 47,495,927 times
Reputation: 17577
Proverbs 31:10-31 is a long list of attributes of a woman.

In today's society few of those attributes are encouraged.

Owning her own land;
having her own employees;
operating her own business;
growing the food that she feeds her family;
making her own clothing and all of the clothing for her family.

I have sat in churches when this passage was being reviewed, and they explained it that the woman bought all of these things with her husband's cash. That it was the husband's wealth that bought for her land, that was with her husband's money that she hired employees, that it was spending her husband's money where she bought the food that fed her family, that it was spending his money when she bought their clothing.

I have spoken with ladies who insisted that they were exactly following the attributes of the 'Virtuous Woman' by spending his money to buy all of these things.

But everytime that I read Proverbs 31:10-31 I do not see where such is the case.

In society today, there are very few ladies who even attempt to follow that list, and those who do are shunned.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Del. County -right outside Phila.PA
145 posts, read 191,853 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marks View Post
I have the perfect Biblical wife.


That's sweet. Good post.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:55 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,529,046 times
Reputation: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by seeking manna View Post
The following is an interesting question asked by a young Christian woman on our church's site.

"I have heard from a lot of men that they want a woman like the one in Proverbs 31, a woman with a “quiet spirit”, or quoting the description of a wife’s duties in Ephesians 5:22-24. There is so much of “here is what I want,” and almost none of “this is what I am”, be it by Biblical or shallow standards. I have had first conversations that have been like interrogations and chats that are one-sided interviews, complaints that he just cannot find a good woman."

But what about you, brothers, potential husbands and fathers? Being the head of the body does not give you a position of power, but a responsibility for righteousness.

There is no perfect woman, but will you still “present her to [yourself] as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless”? (Eph.) “A loving doe, a graceful deer”? (Proverbs 5:19) Beauty is fleeting, but will her body “satisfy you always,” and will you “ever be captivated by her love”? (Prov. 5:19)

What of your responsibilities listed around the scriptures you love to quote?"

This was my response to her:

“There is no perfect woman, but will you still “present her to [yourself] as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless”? = Can a man desire that which he has not seen (understood) personally his own self? Can someone with a plank in their own eye, remove a speck of dust from someone else’s eye? That is simply not possible. As a man and a husband, you can only lead your wife in as much as you’ve been led by Christ - your own Spiritual Headship and Covering. Apart from that process, a man or husband will only be able to put on an act that will be ineffective over time, and lead to an eventual breakdown within the marriage relationship.

“A loving doe, a graceful deer - may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love.” = These verses are the results of Ephesians 5:25-30 taking place in the man 1st. This cannot come about apart from that process. If a husband’s desire and longing for his wife is not fueled by revealing Christ in her (as Christ’s is for the church) through the washing of God’s Word, then his desire for her physically will fade as her physical beauty fades, instead of becoming greater and greater as Christ is revealed in her more and more.
And a wife will not be loved.

Many men do not understand Proverbs 31 unless they themselves have given themselves as weaker vessels willingly to Christ, their Headship (their Spiritual Husband) and to the same process described in Ephesians chapter 5: 25-30. 1 Corinthians 11:3 clearly states that the Head of every man is Christ, just as the head of the woman is man. In this way, many verses that apply to women, apply to men 1st in relation to Christ. All men are actually feminine in relation to the masculinity of Christ, meaning that they themselves are weaker vessels.

This is in no way an attempt to alter the written Word of God, but an example of an implied meaning, which I believe to already exist within it....
Proverbs 31:10-31

A husband of noble character who can find? He is worth far more than rubies. His Spiritual Husband (Christ) has full confidence in him and lacks nothing of value. He brings Christ’s Body (the church) good, not harm, all the days of his life. He selects wool and flax (things used to make coverings – spiritual coverings) and works with eager hands. He is like the merchant ships, bringing his food (spiritual food) from afar. He gets up while it is still dark (like Christ); he provides food (spiritually and physically) for his family and portions for his fellow servants. He considers a field and buys it (where to sow spiritually); out of his earnings (the faith he’s been given) he plants a vineyard (to bear spiritual and physical fruit). He sets about his work vigorously; his arms are strong for his tasks. He sees that his trading is profitable (where his time, life and effort has been spent), and his lamp does not go out at night (Christ in him does not fail in the darkness). In his hand he holds the distaff and grasps the spindle with his fingers (again things used to make coverings – of righteousness for himself and others). He opens his arms to the poor and extends his hands to the needy (like Christ). When it snows, he has no fear for his household; for all of them are clothed in scarlet (results of having spiritually covered his family with Christ, though the world around them grows colder). He makes coverings for his bed (of righteousness); he is clothed in fine linen and purple (Royalty/ Christ). His Spiritual Husband/ Headship is respected at the city gate, where HE (Christ) takes HIS seat among the elders of the land (as their Headship). He makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes (he works for that, which is eternal and is provided for by God). He is clothed with Strength and Dignity (Christ Himself); he can laugh at the days to come (for he trusts and is provided for by the Lord). He speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on his tongue. He watches over the affairs of his household (including the church) and does not eat the bread of idleness (feed from the world). His children (spiritual children) arise and call him blessed; his wife also, and she praises him: Many men do noble things, but you surpass them all." Charm is deceptive, and physical appeal is fleeting; but a man who fears the LORD is to be praised. Give him the reward he has earned, and let his works bring him praise at the city gate (God honors those who honor Him).
God bless
Sorry. In adding to your OP, I forgot to say good post.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:57 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,529,046 times
Reputation: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marks View Post
I have the perfect Biblical wife.
Does she blush when you say that as one of the reasons you are thankful for to God at Thanksgiving?
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:58 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,040,760 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
In society today, there are very few ladies who even attempt to follow that list, and those who do are shunned.
Yep....this is so true!!!
We are seeing the spirit of Jezebel...the controlling woman, in the homes, work, and the Church!
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:06 PM
 
Location: USA
18 posts, read 21,946 times
Reputation: 17
Verna Perry, you're just a sweetheart! Thanks again for your kind words. I am very thankful that you found these messages to be encouraging.
Mark, it sounds like God has blessed you with a wonderful wife, and I thank God for that.
And to everyone else, thanks for taking the time to read what I've had to say. It is truly an encouragement to me and my Christian family.
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