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What else would you call them....LOL Did you have a picture of Free Willy in your mind elmer?
The truth hurts, but it sets us free.
12-11-2009, 04:54 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
I think alot people confuse the work of God's Spirit through the Word of God prior to regeneration to that of regeneration. God through the Spirit and the Word does open hearts, hears, and eyes so that they can respond. That is different though than regenaration.
Regeneration is after one believes the gospel not before it.
If God just regenerated people (the elect) and then asked them to believe the gospel that would be just a bunch of smoke and mirrors because it would NECESSARILY FOLLOW that they would believe. This is what Calvinist call Unconditional election and Irresistable Grace. Yet Calvinist say that people once regenerated must believe the gospel in order to be Justified. Why, if they are already regenerated and elect they cannot not believe. God should just regenrate, justify, and glorify His elect without any consideration to haveing the elect do anything in the process from regeneration to glorification.
I think alot people confuse the work of God's Spirit through the Word of God prior to regeneration to that of regeneration. God through the Spirit and the Word does open hearts, hears, and eyes so that they can respond. That is different though than regenaration.
Regeneration is after one believes the gospel not before it.
If God just regenerated people (the elect) and then asked them to believe the gospel that would be just a bunch of smoke and mirrors because it would NECESSARILY FOLLOW that they would believe. This is what Calvinist call Unconditional election and Irresistable Grace. Yet Calvinist say that people once regenerated must believe the gospel in order to be Justified. Why, if they are already regenerated and elect they cannot not believe. God should just regenrate, justify, and glorify His elect without any consideration to haveing the elect do anything in the process from regeneration to glorification.
Here is how I understand the process: Justification (or the act of being declared righteous by God) occurred at the resurrection of Christ and is the work of Christ alone. The sinner is passive and plays no part in it whatsoever, other than being acted upon. Those who are declared righteous are regenerated in time (the new birth) and their declared righteousness is imputed (or reckoned) to them through faith. But it is by regeneration of the Holy Spirit, by grace, that gives us the repentance and faith to receive Christ and the declared righteousness.
Yes your asking if man who has not been drawn by God...can he choose to follow God.....the answer would be an emphatic NO!! Dead people can't see, hear or respond to anything.
Freewillers hate the predestination passages in the bible because God has basically told us it is Him to decides who is saved and who is not. Some are vessels of mercy and some aren't.....But He does all of it for His plan and His purposes. God is absolutely SOVEREIGN IN ALL THINGS. Freewill is a myth....even scientifically it doesn't stand up because EVERYTHING has a CAUSE. This teaching fits in perfectly with ALL being saved in the end.
Just consider this.....how would we be tried and tested and perfected if everyone were vessels of mercy?
Once you completely understand that GOD is SOVEREIGN and in control of EVERYTHING, it is easier to love your enemies because you can see them as GOD sees them. I understand that unbelievers are created that way for a purpose, GODS purposes, and it is easier for me to love and accept them just the way they are because I know in the long run they will love GOD just as much as I do.
Amen Christy. It seems so easy to understand. But yet,some just can`t see it. But all will understand it, in due time.
From Christ is diety thread so as not to derail that thread:-
I do not see how you can reconcile 1) predestined and regenerated by the Holy Spirit is not our choice it is totally God through the Holy Spirit
2) Those not predestined and not regenerated by the Holy Spirit at this time it is their choice
I've got to agree with you on that. You can't have it both ways. We either have a choice or we don't. It doesn't work one way for believers and the other way for non-believers.
Romans 1:20,21 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools....
You can read onward. Yes they do have a choice, and God chooses those for His purpose in the elect, to carry out His will, and chooses not, those apart from the elect, for purposes only known to God.
I think alot people confuse the work of God's Spirit through the Word of God prior to regeneration to that of regeneration. God through the Spirit and the Word does open hearts, hears, and eyes so that they can respond. That is different though than regenaration.
Regeneration is after one believes the gospel not before it.
If God just regenerated people (the elect) and then asked them to believe the gospel that would be just a bunch of smoke and mirrors because it would NECESSARILY FOLLOW that they would believe. This is what Calvinist call Unconditional election and Irresistable Grace. Yet Calvinist say that people once regenerated must believe the gospel in order to be Justified. Why, if they are already regenerated and elect they cannot not believe. God should just regenrate, justify, and glorify His elect without any consideration to haveing the elect do anything in the process from regeneration to glorification.
Regeneration can be a type of Circumcision, circumcision of the heart.
Jeremiah 4:4 "Circumcise yourselves to the LORD And remove the foreskins of your heart, Men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Or else My wrath will go forth like fire And burn with none to quench it, Because of the evil of your deeds."
Jeremiah 9:25 "Behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "that I will punish all who are circumcised and yet uncircumcised--
Romans 2:29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
Romans 3:30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.
Romans 4:10 Under what circumstances was it[Abraham's righteousness] credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!
Abraham was credited as righteous before he showed any faith.
YES - if people are credited with righteousness... the rest (belief, faith, good works) just naturally follows. I believe that is the point.
I believe we are given free will to choose... but God is omnipresent and omniscient that he already knew from the beginning what each one's decision will be.
If God already knows our choices, then we cannot choose anything other than what God already knows we will choose. Our future is set in stone.
Therefore we are not "free" to choose anything other than what must happen.
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