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Tongues are different earthly languages spoken by differing cultures.
The gift of tongues is the Spirit given ability to speak in a different langauge - without any prior training. This is what happened is Acts 2. The gift of tongues were used in Acts 10 to authenticate the receiving of the Spirit to the Gentiles.
The reception of the Holy Spirit is not verified with the display of the gift of tongues. 1 Cor. 12 states that not every believer will have the same gifts. So not all believers will have tongues - therefore it cannot be a proof that one does or does not have the Spirit.
Thanks for the added 2 cents.
1 Corinthians 12: 27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues?do all interpret?31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Added reference for confirmation that not all will speak in tongues as it is followed by what kind of tongues they are... one that needs interpretation... just as it was listed earler in verses 7-11.
And the excellent way is described in the next chapter known as the love chapter of 1 Corinthians 13.
1 Corinthians 13: 1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Trying to defer the point shared by the last two posts by insinuating that the initial evidence is not "tongues per se" is ignoring the fact that we have received the Spirit by faith and not by sight in how the world receives other spirits.
John 14: 17Even the Spirit of truth;whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
So the signs of tongues are for the unbelievers as a witness of the Gospel to them... tongues was never something a believer needed to seek after as proof of receiving the Holy Ghost for all believers have received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ.
Tongues are not understood by the speaker and not very often by the hearer, and that is why an interpretation is needed when one is speaking in tongues in the Church, out loud.
1Cr 14:2For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
Tongues are for in private prayer and singing to the LORD: 1Cr 14:14For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1Cr 14:15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Cr 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 1Cr 14:19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.
So the lesson given by Paul is to make sure that tongues in the Church which are spoken out loud -before the congregation and not quietly- are to be interpreted, but prayer before God, alone, is not interpreted, and is perfect prayer, done well; and Paul will "continue to pray and sing in tongues unto God", but not out loud in the church, unless there is a spiritually gifted interpreter.
1Cr 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church;and let him speak to himself, and to God. [-in tongues]
In Church; 1Cr 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Cr 14:14For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1Cr 14:15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
When one prays and sings in tongues they do not understand what they say, but they do it well, like Paul. Paul only teaches to not do it out loud in Church except by two or threes, and only with the interpretations -which interpretations are also gifts of the Holy Spirit, and not are not learned.
1Cr 12:4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit... 1Cr 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
So interpreting tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and is not interpreting a "known language" to the interpreter, just as speaking and praying in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and the tongues are not known languages to the speaker and singer.
Your referring to Acts 19 with the copy cats.
Paul in 1 Cor. 14 say it's really about prophecy if you want to really mess with tongues.
He said tongues for the unbeliever not the believer of the faith of Christ.
I won't say that prayer language in tongues is ungodly just a private matter with you and God alone unless you have an intrepreter and everything in procedure with rules God's way.
Having this sign to the unbeliever doesn't give a person the legal right to run an unlearned person out the church says Paul.
Paul said in Corinthians too all things are lawful but not expedient.
Lot of tongue talkers just despise all of 1 Cor. 14 and Romans 12:29.
They simply defend tongues as being real only.
Nobody can despise what they hear with the tongues so that's not the issue.
It's rules with tongues that's the unity problem issue.
It's saying salvation is in tongues only that's the unity problem issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
There also were false religions, mystery religions that did the same thing close to Corinth that entailed a woman near an oracle having been overcome with a spirits and speaking in tongues...and one was an interpreter...
1Cr 14:14For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1Cr 14:15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
When one prays and sings in tongues they do not understand what they say, but they do it well, like Paul. Paul only teaches to not do it out loud in Church except by two or threes, and only with the interpretations -which interpretations are also gifts of the Holy Spirit, and not are not learned.
1Cr 12:4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit... 1Cr 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
So interpreting tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and is not interpreting a "known language" to the interpreter, just as speaking and praying in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and the tongues are not known languages to the speaker and singer.
Quote:
tonytonytony;
Your referring to Acts 19 with the copy cats.
Paul in 1 Cor. 14 say it's really about prophecy if you want to really mess with tongues.
He said tongues for the unbeliever not the believer of the faith of Christ.
...
The "unbeliever" are the Jews who heard the Church on Pentecost speaking in all the nation's languages, who would not believe -many did believe and were baptized into the Believing Church. Paul only quotes the OT on tongues for the unbeliever [who were the Jews] and uses it only for his own dissertation of speaking in tongues out loud in Church only if one who has the Holy Spirit gift of interpreting tongues is present; and then Paul says limit it to at most three per service, not to forbid it.
The point of the OP is to give believers pause in the practise of tongues and the hype in preaching another spirit to receive in order to get these tongues as they do with "another" baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues.
There was no emphasis on seeking tongues as an initial evidence of having received the Holy Spirit and those accounts in Acts occurred by preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ since it is by believing in Jesus Christ, we have received the promise by faith... and not by sight.
This emphasis on seeking after a sign and calling those that oppose as preaching a powerless Gospel are not realizing how they are presenting the Gospel of Jesus Christ by preaching a prerequisite that was never emphasized nor to give that mindset to seek after in order for that promise to come.
You all have been informed not to believe every spirit but test them. 1 John 4:1-7
You all have been instructed by the letters to the early church that those preaching another Jesus or another spirit to receive is corrupting the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus. 2 Corinthians 11:1-4
There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit: Ephesians 4:4-6
There is only one spiritual drink of the One Spirit: 1 Corinthians 12:13
You are filled, and thus sealed, in order for you to be declared as saved to be a witness of the Son, the Good News to man. Matthew 9:17 & Colossians 2:5-10
We are not exhorted to be a witness of tongues.
We are not exhorted to be witnesses of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit bears witness to our spirit that we are the children of God.
Peter did not preach the baptism of the Holy Spirit nor the gift of tongues as initial evidence of having received the Spirit, but he did preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and by doing so.. as the hearers believe in Jesus, they have received the promise as God gave the Spirit by promise by coming to and believing in Jesus Christ... and not all accounts have new believers speaking in tongues as tongues are a sign for the unbelievers.
Acts 10:34-48
Above reference are the exact words Peter spoke: He did not hype power or the baptism of the Holy Spirit or to seek after tongues as initial evidence of having received the Spirit or power.... there is no prerequisite nor mindset preached in prepping new believers to receive the promise for God gives the Spirit by promise for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ.
We are led by the indwelling Holy Spirit to bear witness of the Son so that sinners will be converted to Him. By hearing the Gospel and believing in Jesus Christ by Whom we have received the seal of adoption after having been bought with a price, we can declare we are saved:
So may all believers remember their first love and not be led away from those that would corrupt the simplicity of the Gospel by their preaching to seek after a sign.... and that is the bottomline of what they are doing.
And no one needs tongues as a prayer language when God the Father knows what we are going to pray before we even ask so that debunks Him needing the Holy Spirit to say anything to Him directly. Matthew 6:5-8
It is Jesus Christ Who searches the hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit and that is how the Holy Spirit does not intercede directly but indirectly as "itself" in the King James Bible has the translation correctly to explain why no sound is being uttered by the Holy Spirit in Romans 8:26-27 where most other translations does not hold to the true meaning of God's words in those passages.... and thus a rudiment of prayer language that was in the world before Christ came has crept into christianity, catching many believers asleep in not testing the spirts nor the tongues that comes with it in what it is leading them to say which is not of the truth and thus the spirit of error, following a stranger's voice that comes with no interpretation.
Having the scriptures kept by the disciples that loved Him and His words from Antioch where they were first called christians, let us keep our eyes on Jesus and not seek after a sign: and for those that wish to return to their first love, cease seeking after a sign and rest in Jesus Christ that you are His by faith and not by sight.
The point of the OP is to give believers pause in the practise of tongues and the hype in preaching another spirit to receive in order to get these tongues as they do with "another" baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues.
...
You do not teach Bible doctrine, but deny Bible doctrine in this area.
Take note and pause, yourself, to consider the Word of God:
After His resurrection, Jesus breathed on the Disciples and gave them the Holy Spirit of new/second birth, and then told them to wait for the Holy Spirit of power, which He had not yet received to give the sons of His adoption because He was not yet glorified as second Man and Firstborn/Father of earth's second Man race -of human being sons of God: Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:
They were born again in Spirit when they received the Holy Spirit by Jesus breathing on them, but Jesus told them to wait for the promise of the Father -the Holy Spirit- who had not yet "fallen" on any of them. -the Holy Spirit of power given to the sons of God who are His by adoption.
Act 1:4
And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he], ye have heard of me. r John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 2:1
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. ...
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Again, they were filled with the Holy Spirit: Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
you confuse the Holy Spirit of power with the Holy Spirit of adoption. They are not the same.
You do not teach Bible doctrine, but deny Bible doctrine in this area.
Take note and pause, yourself, to consider the Word of God:
After His resurrection, Jesus breathed on the Disciples and gave them the Holy Spirit of new/second birth, and then told them to wait for the Holy Spirit of power, which He had not yet received to give the sons of His adoption because He was not yet glorified as second Man and Firstborn/Father of earth's second Man race -of human being sons of God: Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit:
They were born again in Spirit when they received the Holy Spirit by Jesus breathing on them, but Jesus told them to wait for the promise of the Father -the Holy Spirit- who had not yet "fallen" on any of them. -the Holy Spirit of power given to the sons of God who are His by adoption.
you confuse the Holy Spirit of power with the Holy Spirit of adoption. They are not the same.
Then what was this?
Matthew 10:1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.....
18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
So if they had the Holy Spirit given to them then, what was the John 20:22 incident?
Confused? I'm not, thanks to Jesus Christ.
John 14th chapter spoke of the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit that will come when Jesus was no longer with them.
John 14: 1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also............ 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
So this power and the seal of adoption is one and the same for after the ascension, there is only one drink of that One Spirit for all new believers in Christ.
1 Corinthians 12: 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Only one baptism of the Holy Spirit as in only one hope of your calling in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called inone hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
After the ascension of Christ, the promise of the Spirit comes by bekieving in Jesus Christ for all the new believers as the dsiciples have received Him permanently on the Day of Pentecost.
You have to consider that what you are preaching cannot escape being seen as preaching another spirit to receive...
2 Corinthians 11: 1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband,that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should becorrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.4For if he that comethpreacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
The Gospel has always been about Jesus Christ... not tongues.. not seeking after the Holy Spirit... but by preaching Jesus Christ, new believers will receive the Spirit by faith for Jesus baptizes us with the Spirit by promise. It has to be one time for Jesus to receive the glory for keeping that promise.
So narrow the way back to the straight gate : Jesus Christ, your first love, for that is Whom the indwelling Holy Spirit in believers are still pointing them to in having that reconciled relationship with God. It is through Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom by Whom we are to be chaste towards and not seeking after another spirit to receive after a sign as an adulterous generation would do in accoring to His words.
1 Timothy 4: 1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
2 Corinthians 13: 5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
1 Corinthians 6: 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Matthew 9: 17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
1 Peter 2: 24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Matthew 10:1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
the same anointing as Moses, Abraham, the sons of Jacob, the prophets of the OT had, to do mighty works by the name and authority of YHWH, and the same anointing that the two witnesses [Moses and Elijah], will have when they come from heaven's Zion and preach in the streets of Jerusalem and do mighty works for three and a half years in the Tribulation, after the Church is gone from earth and the Holy Spirit of power and glory is removed from the earth with the Church.
Once, A man was raised from the dead when his body was cast into a cave and touched the bones of Elisha, even, for the anointing of the Holy Spirit which he received when Elijah was taken away to heaven was still in his very bones, even though he had died from a disease so long before that only the bones were left.
But Jesus was not yet glorified, and the Holy Spirit of power for the adopted sons was not yet given, until Jesus was ascended and glorified as the Firstborn Son of earth's second Man human being race: Jhn 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
In the OT, the anointed servants of God in Israel had the anointing to do mighty works of God in His name and for His glory, but they were not born of His Holy Spirit because the final Atonement had not been offered and accepted until Jesus came and fulfilled it [but they had the promise of it to come, in the resurrection of the Messiah] and they did raise the dead and heal the sick and do mighty acts in the name of YHWH, in Israel, as a reading of the OT shows anyone.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
you confuse the Holy Spirit of power with the Holy Spirit of adoption. They are not the same....
But Jesus was not yet glorified, and the Holy Spirit of power for the adopted sons was not yet given, until Jesus was ascended and glorified as the Firstborn Son of earth's second Man human being race:
So this power and the seal of adoption is one and the same for after the ascension, there is only one drink of that One Spirit for all new believers in Christ to receive that power to live the christian life along with their seal of adoption.
1 Corinthians 12: 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Only one baptism of the Holy Spirit as in only one hope of your calling in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 4: 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called inone hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
After the ascension of Christ, the promise of the Spirit comes by believing in Jesus Christ for all the new believers as the disciples have received Him permanently on the Day of Pentecost.
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The Gospel Is About Jesus Christ
