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Well Abraham asked will you destory the righteous with the wicked, and the answer was no, Lot and the 2 girls were taken out, Noah too and it clearly states that in the book of Revelation to the chruch of Phili I think that I will not let you go thru the trib, the other thing is the church is never used during trib times but the elect. It will be very rough to the rapture, and few will go, but clearly the rapture is there and he comes in the clouds and we go up, the second coming he comes down to earth and kills everyone that is not His and stays for a 1000 years. But maybe people just are not saved like they think and given, when He comes back He says He will not find faith on the earth. And clearly he says that the Holy Spirit is going to leave and then the antichrist will be revealed. And it clearly states that the church goes with the Holy Spirit at rapture, then the antichrist takes over. Never is there a place the church is talked about in the trib. The church is now being warned to repent or they will be blotted out of the book of life or their candle sticks will be removed, but clearly Lot and Noah are there for a reason, God does not destory the righteous. The enemy God allows to do it at times, but God does not kill the righteous, the father of faith Abraham got that worked out quite clearly, and Noah did too. God never hurt Daniel or his fiends, Caleb or Joshua, Ezekiel, Joseph, Elijah or Elisha, Hosea, or Job, for they didn't do anything wrong, but the devil worked them. Not ever not doing anything wrong, but never went into deep sin of any recorded kind, David got hurt and Moses too, and Jacob for they did things majorly wrong, but are still heros.
When did God ever kill one of his own that was right with Him?
The church is now being warned to repent or they will be blotted out of the book of life or their candle sticks will be removed...
So true Arena! But to repent...does this mean to sin and repent and sin and repent sin and repent sin and repent and sin and repent and sin and repent and sin and repent...etc...etc...etc...? How many times of committing a willfull sin is allowed according to your gospel Arena...?...once..? twice...?...three times...?...four...? How many times is too many times?
True repentance means change...a total turning away from sin...a regeneration of the soul...a permanent change.
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God.
1 Corinthians 2:6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
Philippians 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
Philippians 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Hebrews 5:12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
Hebrews 9:14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arena
...but clearly Lot and Noah are there for a reason, God does not destory the righteous. The enemy God allows to do it at times, but God does not kill the righteous, the father of faith Abraham got that worked out quite clearly, and Noah did too. God never hurt Daniel or his fiends, Caleb or Joshua, Ezekiel, Joseph, Elijah or Elisha, Hosea, or Job, for they didn't do anything wrong, but the devil worked them. Not ever not doing anything wrong, but never went into deep sin of any recorded kind, David got hurt and Moses too, and Jacob for they did things majorly wrong, but are still heros.
When did God ever kill one of his own that was right with Him?
N-O-N-E of these men of God thought themselves any higher than they ought...each one of them were humbled and lowly in spirit...with a contrite heart unto the LORD...they obeyed Him and His commandments...they were true men of God...never professing to be anything other than a mere mortal man...didn't think of themselves "special'...as being an angel, born in heaven, just because God spoke to them and directed them...!
You want so much to be like these great men of God. You are like none of these. You teach other's to sin and reject the commandments of God. They did not. You think you are "special," they did not.
Well Abraham asked will you destory the righteous with the wicked, and the answer was no, Lot and the 2 girls were taken out, Noah too and it clearly states that in the book of Revelation to the chruch of Phili I think that I will not let you go thru the trib, the other thing is the church is never used during trib times but the elect. It will be very rough to the rapture, and few will go, but clearly the rapture is there and he comes in the clouds and we go up, the second coming he comes down to earth and kills everyone that is not His and stays for a 1000 years. But maybe people just are not saved like they think and given, when He comes back He says He will not find faith on the earth. And clearly he says that the Holy Spirit is going to leave and then the antichrist will be revealed. And it clearly states that the church goes with the Holy Spirit at rapture, then the antichrist takes over. Never is there a place the church is talked about in the trib. The church is now being warned to repent or they will be blotted out of the book of life or their candle sticks will be removed, but clearly Lot and Noah are there for a reason, God does not destory the righteous. The enemy God allows to do it at times, but God does not kill the righteous, the father of faith Abraham got that worked out quite clearly, and Noah did too. God never hurt Daniel or his fiends, Caleb or Joshua, Ezekiel, Joseph, Elijah or Elisha, Hosea, or Job, for they didn't do anything wrong, but the devil worked them. Not ever not doing anything wrong, but never went into deep sin of any recorded kind, David got hurt and Moses too, and Jacob for they did things majorly wrong, but are still heros.
When did God ever kill one of his own that was right with Him?
You are confusing God divine judgement on sin with Satan's persecution and triublation he pours on saints. God never exempts saints from the persecution of SATAN'S world. We see the oposite in scripture. Surely God will judge America (Babylon) for all her sins. He will judge an unrepented church in Babylon following the false prophets of Babylon. The single most false, infulencial doctrine in America is this doctrine of Pre-tribulationism, IMHO. America is Babylon, without a doubt and the churches have been lead astray by the false prophets of Babylon.
Americans are so wrapped up in their materialism that they do not want to see reality in scripture and in America. America has murdered 50,000.000 innocent babies through leagal legislation. God can not turn a blind eye to that horrific halocaust.
Paul said we are the elect as we have been grafted in Israel.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. 9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
We are the elect, as we are grafted into Israel. Luke 18, Mark 13,Mathew 24. There is not one verse in the bible that says the church is out of here before the tribulation begins. Are you kidding me. Tribulation is here.
We are Israel, and there is no difference, as we are grafted in Israel. There is absolutely no scripture to base this claim of pretribulationism. I guarantee you that tribulation will come and the true church will still be here, witnessing and suffering for christ. Revelation 19 and 20 and 10 and 11 prove that; as does I AND II Thessolonians.
Christians do not want to admit that the country they live in is Satanic, anti-christ, and approaching its demise. If they did, they would have to admit that the pretribulation rapture is nowhere to be found in scripture. The only data they present are a few bible verses, taken way out of context, contradicted by the entire bible itself.
[SIZE=4]Per Isaiah 13-14 46-47 Jeremiah 50-51 Revelation 17-18 et.al.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]1 Mystery Babylon/America Spies on it's own citizens. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Quote Gen. Colin Powell[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]"Finding the Russian scientists may be a problem being that Russia does not have a Social Security System, as here in America, that allows us to MONITOR, TRACK DOWN and CAPTURE an AMERICAN CITIZEN."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.webraydian.com/content/view/528/32/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]United States Government Monitored All Americans: Faxes, Phone Calls, E-mails [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://tinyurl.com/snoops1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]REAL ID Mark of the Beast 666 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE] [SIZE=4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxCERcgX9V8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Technological Advances That Threaten Our [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Freedom and Privacy By Grant Jeffrey[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/article5.htm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]2 Mystery Babylon/America Kills it own citizens, and finds perverted ways to justify killing them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Kent State killing of unarmed peaceful protestors, the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, Terri [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Schiavo, abortion etc.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Deuteronomy 19:10 That innocent blood be not shed in thy land.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]3 Mystery Babylon/America conducts medical experiments on It's own citizens, in most cases without their knowledge nor consent. Tuskegee syphilis experiments, the Lynchburg eugenics program. LSD [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]experiments on military personnel in the 1960’s[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Vets sue CIA, DoD over military experiments[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&sid=1566883[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Then Mystery Babylon rigs the court against them so that they cannot get justice.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.nytimes.com/1987/06/26/us/high-court-bars-suits-by-those-in-the-military.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]4 Mystery Babylon/America denies the God of the Bible through the so-called science of evolution.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I can see the time coming when believers will be imprisoned in mental asylums and kept drugged [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]on psychotropic drugs just because they believe the Bible, as they will say all our best scientists have said that evolution is factual, and the Bible is just myth. So your obviously insane because you believe the Bible. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]5 Mystery Babylon/America is openly hostile to Christianity, and Christians, just ask Judge Roy Moore.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Also Reference all the lawsuits against cities that put up crosses and manger scenes at [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Christmas time. Matter of fact in some segments of our new society we can't even mention the [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]word Christmas, but rather we must say winter holiday.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]6 Mystery Babylon/America jails Christians whenever they can. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Justice denied Philadelphia 11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://wingswatchman.org/WordPress/2008/07/17/justice-denied-to-philadelphia-11/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Law firms Like ACLJ, and Christian Law Association, and others are springing up to counter this attack.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]7 Mystery Babylon/America violates it's own laws, The Duke Lacrosse case is just one of many examples of this. G. W. Bush has said the constitution is just a - - piece of paper.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]8 Mystery Babylon/America prosecutes the innocent. Many convictions are being overturned on DNA evidence.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]9 Mystery Babylon/America taxes it's citizens so exorbitantly till that they pay over half their income to the city, county, state and federal governments in taxes. People that run afoul of the IRS are not even afforded due process. Oh by the way exorbitant taxation was one of the main reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]10 The judges of Mystery Babylon/America pass laws promoting homosexuality, such as homosexual adoption of children, and same sex marriage. They are also activist passing law from the bench. And are continually overturning measures passed through petition by the people, such as recently in California. One American judge can throw out the lawful vote of millions of citizens, so what ever happened to government of by and for the people?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Psalm 94:20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]11 Mystery Babylon/America takes the lead role in dividing Israel.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Daniel 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Re: The forced evacuation from the Gaza stripe, Land For Peace, the Road Map to Peace, Oslo Accords, Annapolis, The Reagan Plan, and all the rest.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]12 Mystery Babylon/America aborts babies in order to put makeup on our skin [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Skin cream contains fetal proteins, Company's anti-aging [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]products built on cells harvested from aborted baby[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=114387[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]13 Babylon/America ignores it's own constitution[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Most Presidents Ignore the Constitution - WSJ.com Oct 29, 2008 ... The government we have today is something the Founders could never have imagined.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]online.wsj.com/article/SB122523872418278233.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Obama Ignores the Constitution[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]On September 18th, I posted a piece about President Obama appointing himself to lead he UN Security Council, and how it was in direct ...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]www.cpflorida.com/blog/?p=153[/SIZE][SIZE=4] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Supreme Court Ignores US Constitution [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]This is a very sad day because today marks the day that the US Supreme Court ignored the US Constitution, ignored bankruptcy laws and made[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/06/09/supreme-court-ignores-us-constitution/id=4038/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]14 U.S. Military is Liaising with Extraterrestrials (Also known as fallen angels)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://standeyo.com/NEWS/09_Weird/091229.US.military-ETs.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]15 Barack H. Obama quote “we Americans do not consider ourselves a Christian nation”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/1003[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]If we are not Christian then we are Pagan.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]But do not take my word for it read it from the Lord himself.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]"The fall of Babylon By Darren Smith" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Full article here [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.streetscapeministries.com/gpage3.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Luk 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Supplementary [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Gematria of 1776 in Roman numerals MDCCLXXVI = 666[/SIZE]
15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. Now Satan cutting our heads off is not a failure in God keeeping us. If we accept the mark of the beast, we are delivered to evil. God keeps us by the power of his Holy Ghost and will not allow one saint to accept Satan's plan for man. God keeps us in tribulation, even unto death. Pretribulationist do not like to hear the harsh truth in this matter.
Pretribulationism is not solid food but rather not found in scriture and is false doctrine; held by the false prophets of Babylon. Solid food has nothing to do with what is clearly written in scripture.
Last edited by Gideon7620; 05-02-2011 at 10:05 AM..
You are confusing God divine judgement on sin with Satan's persecution and triublation he pours on saints. Surely God will judge America (Babylon) for all her sins. He will judge an unrepented church in Babylon following the false prophets of Babylon. The single most false, infulencial doctrine in America is this doctrine of Pre-tribulationism, IMHO. America is Babylon, without a doubt and the churches have been lead astray by the false prophets of Babylon.
Americans are so wrapped up in their materialism that they do not want to see reality in scripture and in America. America has murdered 50,000.000 innocent babies through leagal legislation. God can not turn a blind eye to that horrific halocaust.
Paul said we are the elect as we have been grafted in Israel. There is absolutely no scripture to base this claim of pretribulationism. I guarantee you that tribulation will come and the true church will still be here, witnessing and suffering for christ. Revelation 19 and 20 and 10 and 11 prove that; as does I AND II Thessolonians.
Christians do not want to admit that the country they live in is Satanic, anti-christ, and approaching its demise. If they did, they would have to admit that the pretribulation rapture is nowhere to be found in scripture. The only data they present are a few bible verses, taken way out of context, contradicted by the entire bible itself.
[SIZE=4]Per Isaiah 13-14 46-47 Jeremiah 50-51 Revelation 17-18 et.al.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]1 Mystery Babylon/America Spies on it's own citizens. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Quote Gen. Colin Powell[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]"Finding the Russian scientists may be a problem being that Russia does not have a Social Security System, as here in America, that allows us to MONITOR, TRACK DOWN and CAPTURE an AMERICAN CITIZEN."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.webraydian.com/content/view/528/32/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]United States Government Monitored All Americans: Faxes, Phone Calls, E-mails [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://tinyurl.com/snoops1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]REAL ID Mark of the Beast 666 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE] [SIZE=4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxCERcgX9V8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Technological Advances That Threaten Our [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Freedom and Privacy By Grant Jeffrey[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/article5.htm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]2 Mystery Babylon/America Kills it own citizens, and finds perverted ways to justify killing them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Kent State killing of unarmed peaceful protestors, the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, Terri [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Schiavo, abortion etc.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Deuteronomy 19:10 That innocent blood be not shed in thy land.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]3 Mystery Babylon/America conducts medical experiments on It's own citizens, in most cases without their knowledge nor consent. Tuskegee syphilis experiments, the Lynchburg eugenics program. LSD [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]experiments on military personnel in the 1960’s[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Vets sue CIA, DoD over military experiments[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&sid=1566883[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Then Mystery Babylon rigs the court against them so that they cannot get justice.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.nytimes.com/1987/06/26/us/high-court-bars-suits-by-those-in-the-military.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]4 Mystery Babylon/America denies the God of the Bible through the so-called science of evolution.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I can see the time coming when believers will be imprisoned in mental asylums and kept drugged [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]on psychotropic drugs just because they believe the Bible, as they will say all our best scientists have said that evolution is factual, and the Bible is just myth. So your obviously insane because you believe the Bible. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]5 Mystery Babylon/America is openly hostile to Christianity, and Christians, just ask Judge Roy Moore.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Also Reference all the lawsuits against cities that put up crosses and manger scenes at [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Christmas time. Matter of fact in some segments of our new society we can't even mention the [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]word Christmas, but rather we must say winter holiday.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]6 Mystery Babylon/America jails Christians whenever they can. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Justice denied Philadelphia 11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://wingswatchman.org/WordPress/2008/07/17/justice-denied-to-philadelphia-11/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Law firms Like ACLJ, and Christian Law Association, and others are springing up to counter this attack.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]7 Mystery Babylon/America violates it's own laws, The Duke Lacrosse case is just one of many examples of this. G. W. Bush has said the constitution is just a - - piece of paper.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]8 Mystery Babylon/America prosecutes the innocent. Many convictions are being overturned on DNA evidence.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]9 Mystery Babylon/America taxes it's citizens so exorbitantly till that they pay over half their income to the city, county, state and federal governments in taxes. People that run afoul of the IRS are not even afforded due process. Oh by the way exorbitant taxation was one of the main reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]10 The judges of Mystery Babylon/America pass laws promoting homosexuality, such as homosexual adoption of children, and same sex marriage. They are also activist passing law from the bench. And are continually overturning measures passed through petition by the people, such as recently in California. One American judge can throw out the lawful vote of millions of citizens, so what ever happened to government of by and for the people?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Psalm 94:20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]11 Mystery Babylon/America takes the lead role in dividing Israel.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Daniel 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Re: The forced evacuation from the Gaza stripe, Land For Peace, the Road Map to Peace, Oslo Accords, Annapolis, The Reagan Plan, and all the rest.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]12 Mystery Babylon/America aborts babies in order to put makeup on our skin [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Skin cream contains fetal proteins, Company's anti-aging [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]products built on cells harvested from aborted baby[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=114387[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]13 Babylon/America ignores it's own constitution[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Most Presidents Ignore the Constitution - WSJ.com Oct 29, 2008 ... The government we have today is something the Founders could never have imagined.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]online.wsj.com/article/SB122523872418278233.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Obama Ignores the Constitution[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]On September 18th, I posted a piece about President Obama appointing himself to lead he UN Security Council, and how it was in direct ...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]www.cpflorida.com/blog/?p=153[/SIZE][SIZE=4] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Supreme Court Ignores US Constitution [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]This is a very sad day because today marks the day that the US Supreme Court ignored the US Constitution, ignored bankruptcy laws and made[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/06/09/supreme-court-ignores-us-constitution/id=4038/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]14 U.S. Military is Liaising with Extraterrestrials (Also known as fallen angels)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://standeyo.com/NEWS/09_Weird/091229.US.military-ETs.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]15 Barack H. Obama quote “we Americans do not consider ourselves a Christian nation”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/1003[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]If we are not Christian then we are Pagan.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]But do not take my word for it read it from the Lord himself.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]"The fall of Babylon By Darren Smith" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Full article here [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][SIZE=4]http://www.streetscapeministries.com/gpage3.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Luk 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Supplementary [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Gematria of 1776 in Roman numerals MDCCLXXVI = 666[/SIZE]
Gideon, would you clean up your post please...thank you...
Gideon said,
Anyone who knows Jewish wedding traditions knows this to be the oposite. Surely the parable of the ten virgins in no way points to a pre-tribulation rapture nor does Jewish wedding tradition as seen in scripture. Here is some evidence and next we can cover the Jewish wedding since you brought it up.
The Post-Tribulation Rapture View holds that the timing of the rapture coincides with Christ's Second Coming at the end of the Tribulation, i.e. Daniel's Seventieth Week. Those holding to the Post-Tribulation Rapture view believe Christians will go through the Tribulation. Those holding the Post-Tribulation Rapture view understand the real implications Biblical prophecy concerning the Tribulation has upon their lives. As opposed to the Pre-Tribulation view, which in essence offers an "escape" to Christians from the sufferings and persecutions to take place during the Tribulation; the Post-Tribulation view acknowledges the Church's part in the events of the Tribulation, suffering not withstanding. Now keep in mind, Paul glories in our tribulation, persecutions, and sufferings, because he knows it builds our faith and Hope. Those whom do not understand this concept to be true may be faithless or hopeless.
Do the Scriptures show there to be a Post-Tribulation Rapture? Let's look at the main verse on the Rapture and see:
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first (i.e., the resurrection): then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds (i.e., the rapture), to meet the Lord in the air." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
In addition to 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, which reads,
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air."
One also must look at 1 Corinthian 15: 52 to understanding the scriptural backing of the Post-Tribulation Rapture view. The passage reads,
"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
Those accepting the Post-Tribulation Rapture view notice the similarity of the three things mentioned in each book: (1) the trumpet sounds; (2) the resurrection of the dead in Christ; (3) the living saints are changed (which all agree, is when this mortal puts on immortality and believers rise to meet the Lord in the air). Whereas 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17 identifies the time of this as "the trump of God," 1 Corinthians 15: 52 further specifies it as the last trump. We also notice the Lord descends; he does not ascend. We simply meet him or apantesis him on his descent down. We do not go up and there is no indication anywhere in scripture He does either. All references indicate we come down.
Even more evidence of a Post-Tribulation Rapture is found in Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians. In his first epistle, he had explained to them about the resurrection and the catching up of believers to meet the Lord in the air; and basically instructed the church to not worry about dead loved ones.. (I Thessalonians 4: 16-17) Later, some confusion had apparently developed in the minds of the people concerning this glorious event, so Paul wrote his second epistle to them in which he clarified the matter. In his remarks, he clearly shows there to be a Post-Tribulation Rapture. One must be blind to not see it.
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by (concerning) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by (concerning) our gathering together unto Him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed (Antichrist), the son of perdition." (2 Thessalonians 2: 1-3)
In support of a Post-Tribulation Rapture, there is mention of two things Christians would clearly witness before the day of Christ's coming to gather believers unto Himself. There would be a falling away and the man of sin would be revealed. Concerning these very things, the inspired apostle said, "Let no man deceive you." These two points, particularly the last point, are only compatible with a Post-Tribulation Rapture.
Even Christ's own words point to a Post-Tribulation Rapture. Shortly before His death, Jesus spoke these words to His disciples: "In the world ye shall have tribulation ..." (John 16:33) The verses that follow the prayer in which Jesus prayed for His disciples record what He prayed to the Heavenly Father. He said, "I pray not that thou take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." (John 17:15) Christ never prays for us to be removed from tribulation, as it builds faith and hope.
Though it would be no easy task to take a stand for Jesus Christ, though they would be persecuted, though in the world they would have tribulation, Jesus did not pray that the Church would be taken out of the world. The Church was to remain in the world, but it would not be of the world. This is in harmony with the Post-Tribulation Rapture view.
Those opposed to the Post-Tribulation Rapture might object, however, that Jesus was praying only for His immediate disciples of that time. This is not the case. "Neither pray I for these alone," He said, "but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" (verse 20). Does this not include us today?
Those believing in a Post-Tribulation Rapture accept that instead of the Church being taken out of the world, Jesus taught that it would remain in the world to accomplish a definite purpose: to preach the Gospel. Jesus commissioned His disciples to "go ... and teach all nations" and in connection with this commission He promised, "Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world (age)." (Matthew 28:19-20) this passage also proves the Post-Tribulation Rapture view in its belief the Church is to remain in the world until the end.
If the Rapture is not to be a Post-Tribulation Rapture, then surely His promise to be with the Church until the end of the age would be strange if it is His plan to remove the Church seven years before that time (or even three and a half years before, as those who subscribe to the Mid-Tribulation Rapture Theory suggest). If, when the end of the age comes, the Church would no longer be on the earth, a promise such as this would be meaningless and a Post-Tribulation Rapture view would be incorrect.
Among the Parables of Christ there is also evidence of a Post-Tribulation Rapture. In the Parable of the Wheat and Tares (Matthew 13:24-30) Jesus said that "both" (the wheat and the tares, i.e. true and false believers) would grow "together" until the "end of the world" - and then the harvest would occur, producing the great separation. The harvest occurs at the end of the age, and it is at the time of the harvest that the rapture will occur - and the tares will then be gathered up and burned. The Post-Tribulation Rapture view fits neatly with this parable as it does with all the parables.
Those believing in a Post-Tribulation Rapture also make special note of Christ's words in the Gospel of John:
"And this is the will of Him that sent me," Jesus said, "that everyone which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up "at the last day." (John 6:40, 44)
Again and in further support of the Post-Tribulation Rapture view, He repeated the words in verse 54: "I will raise him up at the last day." The last day is the final day we see in Revelation 10 and 11 when time is no longer. Besides as a dispensationalist, how can one claim Jewish law to apply to the church. Never the less it does not matter as it does not support a pre-tribulation rapture falacy.
With this evidence in mind, certain conclusions are apparent that point to a Post-Tribulation Rapture. Since the "catching up" or Rapture occurs at the same time as the Resurrection of the dead in Christ (I Thessalonians 4:16, 17), it is plain to see that the Rapture is to be a Post-Tribulation Rapture and will take place at the last day and not seven years (or 3 1/2 years) before the last day.
Jesus commanded us to pray for a pre-tribulation rapture in Luke 21:36.
That indicates to me that it is His will that we go up in a pre-tribulation rapture.
Would Jesus tell us to pray for something and then, when we pray it, say no in answer to that prayer?
I don't think so.
1Jo 5:14, And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
1Jo 5:15, And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
Mar 11:22, And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Mar 11:23, For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Mar 11:24, Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
04-11-2022, 03:15 PM
xd4t5gv
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
Jesus commanded us to pray for a pre-tribulation rapture in Luke 21:36.
That indicates to me that it is His will that we go up in a pre-tribulation rapture.
Would Jesus tell us to pray for something and then, when we pray it, say no in answer to that prayer?
I don't think so.
Luke 21:36 is not about a pre-trib rapture.
Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
Read 21:20-22
“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
How would the disciples see the abomination of desolation as well in the midst of that Tribulation?
Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
Read 21:20-22
“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
How would the disciples see the abomination of desolation as well in the midst of that Tribulation?
I apply 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 to Luke 21:36 and I believe that this is what Jesus is telling us to pray for.
04-11-2022, 04:04 PM
xd4t5gv
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
I apply 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 to Luke 21:36 and I believe that this is what Jesus is telling us to pray for.
First, Paul is not Luke- you beg the question by assuming unity.
Second, it does not matter since I Thess.4:13-18 is not a pre-trib text.
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air...
It is talking those who have died in Jesus and how he will bring them with him when he returns. He then gives the order of those resurrected. Those in Christ first then those who are alive at his coming. Jesus does not make a U-turn half-way into his coming descent!
The catching-up is but the resurrection of those who are alive when he returns - they will meet those who have died in the air when Jesus returns. They will be changed in a moment in a twinkling of and eye - I Cor.15
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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