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Unread 12-12-2009, 09:16 PM
 
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I agree with the orignal post all with exception, I believe there will be no rapture but the second coming of Jesus, to set up his earthly kingdom.
I am possibly wrong, if so I will be pleasantly surprised.
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Unread 12-12-2009, 09:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EJScott View Post
I agree with the orignal post all with exception, I believe there will be no rapture but the second coming of Jesus, to set up his earthly kingdom.
I am possibly wrong, if so I will be pleasantly surprised.
Gideon said,
I see, I do not like to use the word rapture either; I understand. I believe there will be a gathering in the air apentisis, meeting in order to escort Chirst down the rest of the way on His descent to Mt. Zion. It all occurs at the end of the GT.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 07:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by EJScott View Post
I agree with the orignal post all with exception, I believe there will be no rapture but the second coming of Jesus, to set up his earthly kingdom.
I am possibly wrong, if so I will be pleasantly surprised.
If you're wrong, then you will not be pleasantly surprised because you will not have prepared to meet your Lord; your garments have to be cleaned and ironed out.

Only Jesus' Bride will be taken in the rapture. What will She look like?

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. - Ephesians 5:27

Does She sound like a Bride who sins a little bit? It takes the power of the Holy Ghost working within a person to get the spots and wrinkles out. And, It takes this same Holy Ghost working within a person to perform that great miracle of translation when Jesus steps out on that cloud and calls for His Bride.

Will you be one of the 5 wise virgins who prepared to meet her Lord or one of the 5 foolish virgins who will be spewed out of Jesus' mouth into the worst period of time that man has ever known on this earth -- the tribulation period.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 07:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
If you're wrong, then you will not be pleasantly surprised because you will not have prepared to meet your Lord; your garments have to be cleaned and ironed out.

Only Jesus' Bride will be taken in the rapture. What will She look like?

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. - Ephesians 5:27

Does She sound like a Bride who sins a little bit? It takes the power of the Holy Ghost working within a person to get the spots and wrinkles out. And, It takes this same Holy Ghost working within a person to perform that great miracle of translation when Jesus steps out on that cloud and calls for His Bride.

Will you be one of the 5 wise virgins who prepared to meet her Lord or one of the 5 foolish virgins who will be spewed out of Jesus' mouth into the worst period of time that man has ever known on this earth -- the tribulation period.

Gideon said, but clearly I am not wrong,. The foolish are not allowed to enter the kingdom, only the wise. It will be the worst place to be in, hell. They, the foolish will be cast into hell not tribulation as you stated. Get it, this parable is about being part of the kingdom of God on earth or of being part in God's wrath in hell. All these parables in Mathew 25 are about that. Make sure your oil is full and be prepared to watch for he comes later than you think. Currently you are not prepared as you anticipate he will come at an earlier time as the foolish did.

11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Sound familiar, Lord Lord, I never knew you. Depart from me into everolasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 07:43 AM
 
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One cannot be a virgin without being born again. The parable is clearly speaking about born again believers; 5 are wise and 5 are foolish. Also, one cannot be in Jesus' mouth if one is a sinner. Luke warm Christians will be spewed out of Jesus' mouth to endure the tribulation period.

Sinners, on the other hand, are going to Hell -- unless they repent and get on the narrow road to eternal life.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 09:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
One cannot be a virgin without being born again. The parable is clearly speaking about born again believers; 5 are wise and 5 are foolish. Also, one cannot be in Jesus' mouth if one is a sinner. Luke warm Christians will be spewed out of Jesus' mouth to endure the tribulation period.

Sinners, on the other hand, are going to Hell -- unless they repent and get on the narrow road to eternal life.
Gideon said,
Wrong, again; the parable is clearly speaking of those whom are saved and those whom are not. The saved will enter the kingdom while the wicked virgins are cast into the fire. We see that in the entire chapter. We can not cherry pick the word of God and misapply context by ignoring the balance. That is obviously what you are attempting to do here. With that being said, it does not matter as God's words are the final judge.

The three responses in the parables are identical. Jesus tells the foolish virgins that he never knew them; meaning they were not saved. This is from the same root as eidon, "to see," is a perfect tense with a present meaning, signifying, primarily, "to have seen or perceived;" hence, "to know, to have knowledge of," whether absolutely, as in Divine knowledge, So while you are saying they are those whom are not chaste but saved, you are wrong. Jesus tells us he has no knowlege of them in the context of the chapter, the saved and the unsaved. BTW, I find it amazing how pre-tribulationism changes their doctrines all the time. Now they claim Jesus is going to leave some saints behind. I thought the comforter was going to be completely removed according to their fallacy or dogma? Before, in years past, they always taught Jesus would take everyone, but the backslidden would not receive hardly any rewards, if any at all. I wish they could make up their minds. They change their doctrines, like the JW's do or like I change my underware. The fact is, the comforter will be here more then ever as many are saved during the GT. The Holy Ghost must be here in order for that to happen.

Parable # 1

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

THey are cast into hell as we see in Revelation 19 and 20 when the bridegroom comes for the marriage.


The unprophitable servant was cast into hell into hell also. He knew not his Lord because he understood not his ways.
Parable # 2
30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Parable # 3
is a summary of what is to take place when Jesus returns. He has now reitterated it for us 3 times so we have no excuses. So if you want to contend this, contend it with Jesus. I believe him and would never believe you. His word is so clear, that only Satan could make it unclear to you.

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Revelation 6 and the sixth seal.

32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Why harden your heart to what the scriptures are very clearly telling us. The unwise virgins and not saved and will not enter the kingdom; therefore the door is shut on them. Jesus even tells them, "I never knew you." How much clearer do you want him to make if for you.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 10:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Why harden your heart to what the scriptures are very clearly telling us. The unwise virgins and not saved and will not enter the kingdom; therefore the door is shut on them. Jesus even tells them, "I never knew you." How much clearer do you want him to make if for you.
That is quite a paradox -- an unsaved virgin. Think real deeply on that.

Revelation 3:16
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

There is no need to discuss this further, as it's "thus saith the Lord" for me.

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation [the tribulation period], which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth - Revelation 3:10

Glory to the Lord of Hosts!
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Unread 12-13-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Gideon said Simple, we are instructed and commanded to watch; watch for what the signs of the season. Certainly no one will know the day or hour, but we had better know the season and prepare for it having our lamps filled with oil to endure the night. The night is falling, I have the works of the Father, doing is important but being is far more important; for unless we are what God would have us to be, our work is counted useless. The five foolish virgins are a perfect depiction of doing, but they were not what they should have been as the five wise were, and that being prepared to endure the night. They foolish were more concerned with spreading fear throughout the watches and telling people Jesus could come at any moment and people had better be prepared; i.e., giving all your money and resources to the church and doing what the spiritual leader deem necessary for the cause of Christ.


OOOooooohhh. That is how you are seeing as the evil of it. I had never seen that as a catalyst to prompt givings to a ministry, but I can believe it "if" you had actually seen that being done.

Let's be realistic in how we apply our animosity to this issue, because one can see your stance causing many believers to be tempted by the devil that it is okay to live carnally since the Jewish Temple hasn't been built yet or the mark of the beast has not been implemented yet. or for the procrastinating wannabe that keeps putting off coming to and believing in Jesus Christ because they do not need to worry about that now for they want "to live". Pre tribulational rapturists could carry that big stick towards post tribulational rpaturists... so let's not, okay?

Galatians 5:14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Quote:
Gideon said,
Give me a break, the foolish virgins are going to hell;


Then how is it that when it was too late, they had their lamps trimmed and shining the light?

If you want to see another take on this "going to the market" application: Here it is by His grace:

Consider the false teaching of another spirit to receive as many false teachings incorporate that towards the Holy Spirit to be received again by the same believer whethor it be for a continual filling of the Spirit to being slain in the Spirit to even another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues.

When Christ is in us, we are to bear witness of that truth; the result of the Gospel. Other than for the edification of the body of Christ, the manifestation of the Spirit is for bringing about this good report on the believers from the unbelievers that newly believe.

1 Corinthians 14:23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Colossians 1:27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

2 Corinthians 13: 5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

By preaching another spirit to receive, even if they call that spirit, the Holy Spirit, they are departing from faith and fulfilling a prophecy:

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Many wayward believers will say that they know He is in them, but yet in hypocrisey, they call for the Holy Spirit to come anyway.

This is what I call "being out to the market", seeking to be filled, but never filled. Those that are abiding in Christ are filled and resting in Him as His.

Matthew 9: 17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

This is how we are witnesses of the Son of God; the Lord Jesus Christ, in seeking His glory, and not serving something else in His name: like the "Toronto Blessings" , the "Pensacola Outpouring", and/or the "holy laughter" movement. We are not to be witnesses of the movements of the Spirit for the indwelling Holy Spirit seeks to lead us to be witnesses of Jesus Christ as He seeks to be as well in seeking the glory of the Son.

John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 15: 26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Those wayward believers not holding to the love of the truth will suffer the strong delusion to believe those lies for they did not watch in how they were departing from faith in seeking another spirit to receive, and thus suffered a thief to break through, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.

Thus the need for judgment to fall on the House of God first because it is written that He will lose nothing.

John 6: 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.....44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If false prophets were prophesied to come in and thus the need to watch, then since God will lose nothing: Jesus must finish His work even in those left behind even if they did follow a stranger's voice for they will be made to hear His voice finally and be one fold and one shepherd.

John 10: 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers....

.... 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That explains to me how God has in His House, vessels unto honour and vessels unot dishonour and why in 2 Timothy 2:18-26, every believer thyat name the name of Christ were to depart from iniquity and Luke 13:24 is thye solution for those wayward believers by narrowing the way back to the Bridegroom for having that personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ: not through the Holy Spirit for He is in us, not inbetween us, still pointing us to Jesus Christ, our first love. Those that still do not heed will need to be "excommunicated" from the Marriage Supper of the Lamb to be chastened.

So after the appearing of their first love at the pre-tribulational rapture event, then the foolish virgins will have oil for their lamps and will be shining as witnesses of Him and nothing else in His name anymore.

That is how Jesus will destroy even Him after the workings of Satan with signs and lying wonders in restoring the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake and that is at the time when judgment shall fall on the House of God first.

You cannot ignore the fact that when it was too late, the lamps of the foolish virgins were filled, trimmed and shining, but darkness has come as the hour of trail shall try those left behind to go through the great tribulation.... where there will be no more carefree buying or selling because of the coming mark of the beast.

The great tribulation is hardly the time as in the days of Noah when that warning is to be heeded by the believers when they cannot buy nor sell, therefore, the warning is to be ready now and be found abiding in Him for the pre tribulational rapture event is before the great tribulation.

As it is, I am not asking for donations to a church or ministry so I cannot be lumped in with those that self serve themselves. By the grace of God, I serve the Lord Jesus Christ by pointing believers, wayward or not, to go to their Good Shepherd to help them to be ready and be found abiding in Him. No church can do that. Only Jesus Christ can by faith in Him alone.

Galatians 3:26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 4: 6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Before you reply, Gideon, go to Jesus in prayer for the confirmation. If God will lose nothing and yet false prophets will come in, then only He can reveal to you the necessity for the judgment on the House of God. The warnings to the seven churches in Revelations proves the necessity that motivates the call for the bride and the Spirit to say Come in Revelations to Jesus to be found ready and abiding in Him to miss that hour of trial that shall try all on the earth or be cast into the bed of the great tribulation.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 10:55 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Actually, the ten-virgins parable clearly points to a pre-tribulation rapture. The wise virgins will go out to meet the bridegroom; the foolish virgins will be spewed into the tribulation period. The oil that these foolish virgins are missing is the Holy Ghost.
I see the oil as the faith that Jesus Christ is in them. Because the foolish virgins were always out to the market in regards to the Holy Ghost, they were not able to shine that faith until after the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Quote:
The rapture will be a miracle, just like the parting of the Red Sea was a miracle; and, it will be the power of the Holy Ghost dwelling within a person that will bring about a change in the twinkling of an eye.
1 Corinthians 3:10-23 declares that of any devile the temple of God, him will God destroy. Hebrews 12:1-29 shows God to be the consuming fire as He shall scourge every child He receives, suggesting that for a time, it will be necessary for such a destruction on what was bought with a price and sealed as His as a vessel unto honour to be become a vessel unto dishonour in God's House.

If no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him ( John 6:44) and Jesus will lose nothing, but raise them up in the last days ( John 6:38-40 ) and yet false prophets will come in ( Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 ) which will cause many to go astray and depart from faith: ( 1 Timothy 4:1-2 ) then we can see why judgment must fall on the House of God first ( 1 Peter 4:17 ) as His appearing shall destroy even him, after the workings of Satan with signs and lying wonders ( 2 Thessalonians 2:9-15) by which the damnation will be from being a vessel unto honour to a vessel unot dishonour by excommunicating the foolish virgins from the Marriage Supper of the Lamb for the destruction of the flesh thus being left behind so as to restore them to the path of righteousness for His name's sake and then blessed are they that die in the name of the Lord from that point on for they shall rest from their labours as their works shall follow them.... wood stubble and hay: ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 )

So I believe that those foolish virgins are His sheep as they have been bought with a price and sealed as His, but because they have departed from faith in seeking after a sign like an adulterous generation and no longer being the chaste bride, they are following a stranger's voice, but will be made to hear His voice and be of the one fold and one shpeherd afterwards: ( John 10:1-5, 14-16 )

Still, those that have gone astray, God can recover them that were overthrown in the faith from the snare of the devil ( 2 Timothy 2:18-26) if they prune away "all doors" to the Holy Spirit and stick to the one door given by God in having that relationship with God through Jesus Christ ( John 10:7-9 & John 14:6-7 & John 14:13-14 & 1 Timothy 2:5 ) for that is Whom the Holy Spirit in us is still pointing us to "go to": our first love... and thereby being ready by His grace for the Bridegroom as the chaste bride. But after those doors are shut, that firstfruits of the resurrection can never be had again...there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth where it will take a miracle from God to wipe the tears from the eyes of those coming out of the great tribulation to help them get over their loss of their first inheritance.

May God cause the increase.
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Unread 12-13-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
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Jesus has come to me in which I have found my rest. Need I have any concern about the future?
Notice the number 10.........as five are wise and 5 are not?

Do we not know that the number 10 is a divine number, as 12 an earthly number: the 10 commandments are of God?

The first five of the 10 commandments are the wise ones, as they pertain to the spiritual, while the second 5 are the fullish ones, since they pertain to the physical.

Jesus fulfilled all ten, for both the wise and the fullish, giving rest to (both) whom ever will receive His grace.

Our works are judged here on earth as death is the payment for the wages of sin.

The salvation of our souls is in the hands of God in Jesus.

Should we be fortunate now to believe, we shall have entrance into His kingdom, yet while we live, otherwise, not until after we die.

Make your peace now with God, accept His Son as your rest from your attempts to be righteous, and begin to enjoy the fruits of His kingdom now. Why wait?

As for all this talk about pre/mid/post tribulation, rest assured, that if you have Jesus abiding in you, it matters not what may come.

Rather, preach, teach and or give instructions about the goodness of God in Jesus and let the Holy Spirit do the rest of the work.

For we are but instruments in His hands, that is, if we submit to His will.

The world needs us now to proclaim the good news rather than to prophecy of doom and gloom.

Responsibility was given us to maintain a life of goodness, individually and collectively.
Evil will always be with us, and we should fight to control it,individually and collectively.

Blessings, AJ
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