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Old 01-04-2010, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,769,847 times
Reputation: 1679

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
To repeat my unpopular view . . . Consciousness is Spirit (eternal) . . . God is Spirit (Holy Spirit = God's consciousness) . . . Jesus' human consciousness was elevated to be IDENTICAL to God's. (How do we know the mind of God . . . we have the "mind of Christ."). Because Jesus' consciousness is human . . . we ALL have access to God's consciousness (Holy Spirit) through Jesus.

There really is no issue here. We are our consciousness . . . not our bodies. The same consciousness is the same consciousness . . . there can be no important difference to be concerned about . . . only confusion for ancient primitive minds who had no idea what a consciousness was. They feared Spirits . . . so Jesus had to cater to their fears and present the form of a physical body to assuage their fears and give them hope that they would survive . . . since they did not have any idea of survival outside their bodies. Only demons and evil "spirits" were like that. There was a tremendous amount of superstitious folderol to overcome in their primitive minds.
Isn't it all just conjecture that there is such a think as an afterlife or the eternal-ness of the consciousness/spirit? Aren't you just compounding conjectures in order to state the above?

You believe that our consciousness is eternal but you don't have proof of that...

God is spirit, meaning that he is consciousness (in your statement, right) so if he is consciousness then our consciousness, as Jesus' was, is a tiny portion of that.. Because if all consciousness is God and we are conscious.. then rightly our consciousness is also God's...

Did that make sense?

So Jesus had no more to start with than we did.... He was not God... he showed that we are temples of the living God as he was. God's consciousness dwells in us forevermore.

It is so plain to me that this is so..
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:20 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,523,295 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Isn't it all just conjecture that there is such a think as an afterlife or the eternal-ness of the consciousness/spirit? Aren't you just compounding conjectures in order to state the above?

You believe that our consciousness is eternal but you don't have proof of that...

God is spirit, meaning that he is consciousness (in your statement, right) so if he is consciousness then our consciousness, as Jesus' was, is a tiny portion of that.. Because if all consciousness is God and we are conscious.. then rightly our consciousness is also God's...

Did that make sense?

So Jesus had no more to start with than we did.... He was not God... he showed that we are temples of the living God as he was. God's consciousness dwells in us forevermore.

It is so plain to me that this is so..
Hi Kat,
I think it is conjecture or faith..depending on how you look at it. After all what is faith? Hope in things not seen? Not one of us has died and come back to tell about it. Sure,there are people who have near death experiences etc. and most of those go against what the christian church teaches. People of other religions also have near death experiences. We are all basing our faith and what we see as truth on things that were written thousands of years ago. Some will say they have evidence of Christ in there life because of some feeling they had or some situation or experience that they prayed about that came true. Perhaps because of what they consider to be fruit in their life..peace,love,happiness,giving,joy,etc. But a lot of people of other faiths or religion can express those same things and ascribe it to their God. Great things happen in the lives of non believers but they don`t attribute it to God.
In the end,for me,it comes down to faith. I believe that everything in this universe had to have a creator. There had to be a designer behind the design. Others will say, no, it all just happened. Others will say,their God is the creator. Based on what I have studied and read, I have an opinion,like we all do. The thing that satifies my mind the most and makes the most sense to me is, a creator and life after death.
I think God put us here for a purpose and it isn`t to try and trick us. He isn`t waiting to torture us forever because in this vast world of ideas and religion,we were taught the wrong thing. We are here to learn and in the end,we will all know what he wants us to know. That he is a part of us. He made man in his image. He put his spirit in us. He put within us a consciousness and need to understand. Why else go through all of this? Why not give us full understanding from the start? There is a time,reason,purpose,and season to everything under heaven. It`s a cycle of learning and growing,learning and growing,to get us where he wants us to be. There is nothing new under heaven. Jesus is the pinnacle of fullness. That`s what we are striving for. Jesus attained the highest and became one with God Almighty. I believe at some point we will be one with him and the Father. Just as he said. Then God will be all in all.
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 993,840 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Hi Kat,
I think it is conjecture or faith..depending on how you look at it. After all what is faith? Hope in things not seen? Not one of us has died and come back to tell about it. Sure,there are people who have near death experiences etc. and most of those go against what the christian church teaches. People of other religions also have near death experiences. We are all basing our faith and what we see as truth on things that were written thousands of years ago. Some will say they have evidence of Christ in there life because of some feeling they had or some situation or experience that they prayed about that came true. Perhaps because of what they consider to be fruit in their life..peace,love,happiness,giving,joy,etc. But a lot of people of other faiths or religion can express those same things and ascribe it to their God. Great things happen in the lives of non believers but they don`t attribute it to God.
In the end,for me,it comes down to faith. I believe that everything in this universe had to have a creator. There had to be a designer behind the design. Others will say, no, it all just happened. Others will say,their God is the creator. Based on what I have studied and read, I have an opinion,like we all do. The thing that satifies my mind the most and makes the most sense to me is, a creator and life after death.
I think God put us here for a purpose and it isn`t to try and trick us. He isn`t waiting to torture us forever because in this vast world of ideas and religion,we were taught the wrong thing. We are here to learn and in the end,we will all know what he wants us to know. That he is a part of us. He made man in his image. He put his spirit in us. He put within us a consciousness and need to understand. Why else go through all of this? Why not give us full understanding from the start? There is a time,reason,purpose,and season to everything under heaven. It`s a cycle of learning and growing,learning and growing,to get us where he wants us to be. There is nothing new under heaven. Jesus is the pinnacle of fullness. That`s what we are striving for. Jesus attained the highest and became one with God Almighty. I believe at some point we will be one with him and the Father. Just as he said. Then God will be all in all.
Very nicely said. I too believe that we are here to experience life....this is our TEMPORARY home....and the only way to experience life is to live through, happiness, sadness, tears, love, joy, sorrow, fear, etc....it is what defines us and perhaps will make us appreciate more what is to come. If we have our faith it makes all of these experiences either more joyful or bearable.

Yes, Jesus is at one with the Father...and if we seek so shall we. God is Love!
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,949,912 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Post what? The article? I posted it because it is logically structured and gives one information in a new light. I thought you read the disclaimer that I had not researched nor read about the rest of the website. If, however, you disagree with something withing the article.. perhaps you could paste it here or summarize it so I could respond?
I disagree with the entire premise of Islam.


Quote:
I don't know what gives any of us the right to point to another person and state that they are "satanic"... where did you apply for the license to do that?
Your accusation has no weight when I never said such a thing. Remember kat, IMO Satan is no more. His influence is here in mankind, but he himself, is burning in Hell. Rev 20

Quote:
God is God of all gods.. Who are you to say that God doesn't answer to Allah, Smith, Buddha, satan.. etc.
God only answers through Christ....did you miss that part in scripture.

Quote:
If you aren't God.. I would think you would focus on the plank in your own eye rather than focus on the sliver in others'.
Huh? I was just asking a question based on your edification of a theology that is NOT within the Christian church, which questions your faith in Christ altogether IMO.....forgive me for being blunt, but that is what I am seeing, but correct me if I am wrong.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 01-04-2010 at 08:20 PM..
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:27 PM
 
34,480 posts, read 22,152,630 times
Reputation: 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Isn't it all just conjecture that there is such a think as an afterlife or the eternal-ness of the consciousness/spirit? Aren't you just compounding conjectures in order to state the above?

You believe that our consciousness is eternal but you don't have proof of that...
That depends on what you consider proof of concept, kat. It is in fact scientifically sound. Our consciousness cannot reside in ANY "physical" substrate of the brain . . . it must be a "non-physical" substrate comprised of the "basic "substance" of the universe (95+%). If one does not understand that everything we see, touch, feel, and know about as discrete things . . . is really myriad vibrational manifestations of the underlying energy that pervades the universe in various forms . . . it will be impossible to grasp this aspect of our reality. The abstract rationale and reasoning necessary to be convinced that this is so . . . is also difficult to condense into a venue like this forum. But . . . unlike all the supernatural stuff and dismissive rationales . . . it IS entirely consistent with science and the concept of vibrational resonance.
Quote:
God is spirit, meaning that he is consciousness (in your statement, right) so if he is consciousness then our consciousness, as Jesus' was, is a tiny portion of that.. Because if all consciousness is God and we are conscious.. then rightly our consciousness is also God's...

Did that make sense?
Yes . . we are "cells" of God's consciousness in the "birthing" (womb of a physical body and brain). We must mature properly to attain minimum resonance with God in the core "key frequency" . . ."Love."
Quote:
So Jesus had no more to start with than we did.... He was not God... he showed that we are temples of the living God as he was. God's consciousness dwells in us forevermore.

It is so plain to me that this is so..
I cannot disagree with this, kat . . . EXCEPT for the insistence on a virgin birth in the many legends and myths that presaged His eventual arrival. NOT having the "Sins of the Father" cannot be written off as a negligible advantage . . . especially in that day and age when male aggressiveness (and the XYY chromosome) were probably so dominant. The persistence and insistence on this characteristic in ALL the preceding and failed "Saviors" of our species is a dominant "inspiration" . . . not to be ignored by me.
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Florida
564 posts, read 591,600 times
Reputation: 143
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Only God can save! Sometimes we cannot fathom God coming so personally, so human, so emotionally, with all the love of the universe to become the creation, He had created. This is why He can save so completely. God personally and physically came to save us. Only God can save!
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,949,912 times
Reputation: 420
Amen Mercy777, there is only one Savior, God, and He came in the flesh to prove it.
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:27 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,717 times
Reputation: 10
The oneness belief and the trinity belief are not at all the same. In fact there are many on both sides who believe that those who oppose them are not true Christians. Here is a web site that has a debate from major oneness and trinity believers. It is lengthy but if you are truly interested it will help you greatly in understanding the difference. Oneness Versus Trinity
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:39 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,717 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Oneness and the Trinity...Can anyone explain the differences for me? I saw this addressed by Walter Martin (Thanks alan..) and while listening I could not distinguish the difference.. it seems the same to me.

Please help!
For an over simplified definition. Oneness believes that God was the Father first, then Jesus and then the Holy Spirit, he was never all three at the same time. Jesus was the Father/Creator, then Jesus was a man, after he left earth Jesus became the Spirit. (That is why they only pray/baptize in Jesus name) He manifested himself into different forms. Trinity however believes they are 3 separate distinct beings. The Father still existed while Jesus was on earth and Jesus still exists while the Holy Spirit is here. (Which is why they pray/baptize in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

For an in depth study see
Oneness Versus Trinity
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Old 08-21-2010, 09:53 AM
 
1,867 posts, read 1,039,737 times
Reputation: 134
Default No such thing as trinity---John 8:24

No such thing as trinity---John 8:24
Epistle John mentions 3 bearing record in heaven and earth each
but it's no different then saying water is liquid wet and ice cold
and vapor vanishing. No different then saying superman in the
air flying and Clark Kent in human form as well as a ghost if you can't see him.

Father in creation of the world before man---John 14:9.
Son in redemption for man making a human body that his---John 3:16.
Holy Ghost the bible book Word---John 6:63.

Water symbol John 3:5 being born again in water.
Blood symbol John 3:16 with atonement.
Word symbol the bible book Word again---John 6:63


First 3 bearing record in heaven.
Next 3 bearing record on earth.

Each set of 3 == Jesus or God the whole time.

No such thing as a trinity---Hebrew 13 and John 8:58.

No father nor desecendents in Jesus---Hebrews 13 and John 8:58.

The Father making himself a Son and a written bible Word--John 1:1, 14.

Jesus is both the Son and God while trinity doctrine says the Son only ----John 8:24.

Trinity doctrine is a heresy doctrine to go to the Lake of Fire in hell ----John 8:24











Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Oneness and the Trinity...Can anyone explain the differences for me? I saw this addressed by Walter Martin (Thanks alan..) and while listening I could not distinguish the difference.. it seems the same to me.

Please help!
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