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Old 12-14-2009, 01:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The reason I ask is because your analogy was in there.

Ironmaw, this has nothing to do with organized religion, which you follow Christian Universalism, which is organized whether you want to accept it or not. You follow the teaching of some early church fathers and their doctrines. I am still trying to figure out why you bash religion and doctrine that is organized, when you follow the same very thing, but only coming from your selected view, thus claiming to be "different" from every one else.

It bewilders me.

Universalism is the very same thing IMO, a secret "knowledge" that the church has been unaware of for years...that to me..sounds a little "iffy".

On a lighter note though, universalist, catholic, protestant, and just about every sect of the faith has had several Full Preterists within, more so than everyone wants to admit, so that view, as it appears, has been in effect longer and more consistent in truth, and more consistent in Biblical exegesis and interpretation, relying on the scripture alone, sided with historical evidence that provides accurate fulfillment, than any other view of the Christian eschatological sect.

The trinity is just a doctrine based on the Oneness that the scripture teaches, just as the millennium is a view, and some feel, a doctrine based in the years in between the first and second coming of Christ, but neither of them are mentioned in the Bible, so they are just names, to identify what the scripture teaches. Oneness and the Trinity are in unison, as they are the same explanation with two words, about the same nature of God.
When i said i do not practice organized religion i only meant that i do not attend services at any church. When i looked up the truth project hoping it might be on youtube i only found a few trailers of a video, but not the video itself. And in the comments i noticed several people saying they had the truth project come to their church or some such. I only meant that I didnt know about it because i don't go to "church".

Anyway, i don't want to go to far off the OP ... Excuse me Kat ...
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Old 12-14-2009, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Oneness and the Trinity...Can anyone explain the differences for me? I saw this addressed by Walter Martin (Thanks alan..) and while listening I could not distinguish the difference.. it seems the same to me.

Please help!
These are two polar opposites as far as I'm concerned. The Trinity (Jesus is God) is false....while they were totally ONE, in spirit, will and purpose. Being ONE with GOD is something we are all called to be (did ya'll miss that)....will that make me GOD once I am ONE with Him....I think not!
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:13 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
These are two polar opposites as far as I'm concerned. The Trinity (Jesus is God) is false....while they were totally ONE, in spirit, will and purpose. Being ONE with GOD is something we are all called to be (did ya'll miss that)....will that make me GOD once I am ONE with Him....I think not!
Are you saying that Jesus is not God?

Isaiah 41:Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 43:13Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

Isaiah 46:4And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.

Isaiah 48:14Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last

Isaiah 52:6Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

John 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8:28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 9:9Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

John 13:9Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

Revelation 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 2:23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

John 1: 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not..... 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. ....14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 4: 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The man, Christ Jesus, is the Person of the Triiune God to go to.

The Holy Spirit is not in the role to be the "Go To" Person of the trinity.

Jesus is God.

Philippians 2: 5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Genesis 1: 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The scriptures cannot be broken as God spoke in the plural sense and yet in the act of creation... in the singular sense.

Although the triune God exists.... all invitations points to Jesus in having that reconciled relationship with God the Father.

John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus Christ is God the Saviour. He had always existed. We, who are going to be with God, cannot say we are God for we have not always existed. Being one with God simply means to be with God and never be apart from Him again... as in we shall never sin ever again... thanks to Jesus Christ... the actual Son of God.
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 6,189,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Are you saying that Jesus is not God?
Yes that is exactly what I am saying....the man Jesus is NOT God.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Jesus Christ is God the Saviour. He had always existed. We, who are going to be with God, cannot say we are God for we have not always existed. Being one with God simply means to be with God and never be apart from Him again... as in we shall never sin ever again... thanks to Jesus Christ... the actual Son of God.
The Christ is (the annointing/the Spirit of God)....Jesus the man, was the means by which God gave salvation to the world....God is the Savior....Jesus was annointed with The Christ at the time of his baptism when the Spirit descended upon him and he became Gods Son (the Messiah)....not before. The same way, when we are annointed with the Spirit, we become sons and daughters of God. Jesus and God were ONE in mind, will and purpose...not one and the same person...this is the exact same calling on us....to be ONE with The Father. Don't confuse Jesus the man with the annointing he received of The Christ....this is where most believers make the mistake of calling Jesus God and falsely worship him as the One and Only God. There is only ONE GOD.
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:59 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Yes that is exactly what I am saying....the man Jesus is NOT God.

The Christ is (the annointing/the Spirit of God)....Jesus the man, was the means by which God gave salvation to the world....God is the Savior....Jesus was annointed with The Christ at the time of his baptism when the Spirit descended upon him and he became Gods Son (the Messiah)....not before. The same way, when we are annointed with the Spirit, we become sons and daughters of God. Jesus and God were ONE in mind, will and purpose...not one and the same person...this is the exact same calling on us....to be ONE with The Father. Don't confuse Jesus the man with the annointing he received of The Christ....this is where most believers make the mistake of calling Jesus God and falsely worship him as the One and Only God. There is only ONE GOD.
Somebody didn't tell the disciples that.

Luke 24: 45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. 50And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Even at His betrayal... his creation aknowledged Him.

John 18: 5They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

There are more references by which Jesus has been worshipped.

Do go to Jesus Christ in prayer for help and discernment on this matter.
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,480,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Somebody didn't tell the disciples that.

Luke 24: 45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. 50And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Even at His betrayal... his creation aknowledged Him.

John 18: 5They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

There are more references by which Jesus has been worshipped.

Do go to Jesus Christ in prayer for help and discernment on this matter.
Men worshiped a golden calf in the scripture too.. does that make the calf God? Hardly.

Just because men worship something does not make that something God.

The Jews never believed that Jesus was God. They still don't even believe it is possible for God to become human.. I have to agree with that. God is intangible, immaterial.. all around us.
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
These are two polar opposites as far as I'm concerned. The Trinity (Jesus is God) is false....while they were totally ONE, in spirit, will and purpose. Being ONE with GOD is something we are all called to be (did ya'll miss that)....will that make me GOD once I am ONE with Him....I think not!
But in my reading I see that Oneness believers do believe Jesus is God... in fact it seems to me that they believe Jesus is God and encompasses the father, son, and holy spirit.

Also has anyone seen the writings of Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, and Luther which supposedly refutes that God became human?
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
But in my reading I see that Oneness believers do believe Jesus is God... in fact it seems to me that they believe Jesus is God and encompasses the father, son, and holy spirit.

Also has anyone seen the writings of Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, and Luther which supposedly refutes that God became human?
I agree with you on that Oneness believers do belive that....I don't see oneness in the bible that way. Oneness just means we are ONE in mind, will and spirit....it has nothing to do with all being the same person.

Most people don't bother to read anything that is against what they currently accept as their doctrine....it's a shame.
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 6,189,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Do go to Jesus Christ in prayer for help and discernment on this matter.
God has already given me the discernment I needed on this particular issue....I will believe and trust in Him and not man's traditions/doctrine.
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
God has already given me the discernment I needed on this particular issue....I will believe and trust in Him and not man's traditions/doctrine.
I second that motion!
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