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Old 12-14-2009, 12:48 PM
 
Location: midwest
507 posts, read 690,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Oneness and the Trinity...Can anyone explain the differences for me? I saw this addressed by Walter Martin (Thanks alan..) and while listening I could not distinguish the difference.. it seems the same to me.

Please help!
I can help. Look at what marriage creates... "The two become one", so look at what life is like in a holy marriage and understand that even though there are two, everything about their lives is lived in togetherness. There is a balance between the multiples, and God the father is the head of it all.
The church of Christ is the same trinity structure and so is a family.
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:27 PM
 
23,270 posts, read 11,487,380 times
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Kat,
I have a very abstract mind and it can be difficult to distill it sometimes into pragmatic chunks. But I will try another time. Let's start with a large tuning fork that produces a perfect tone. The TONE is the relevant ENTITY that exists (not the tuning fork). We make a smaller one and we want it to produce the same tone. As it approaches the same tone it "resonates" but only as "harmonics" of the TONE . . . not the same. We measure the degree of "sameness" as we "tune" the fork by the increases in amplitude as the resonance increases. Once the small tuning fork is producing the IDENTICAL PERFECT TONE . . . it's amplitude goes to INFINITY. Thenceforth there is no difference between the TONE of the small and the TONE of the large. Remember it is the TONE . . . (not the forks) . . . that is the ENTITY that exists.

Now let's expand our TONE to an entire SYMPHONY of TONES (or an infinity of TONES . . . God as the entity) and our small tuning fork to the vibrational energy of a human being. AS this human being (Jesus) "tunes" His life energy toward the "Symphony of Tones" He produces ever closer "harmonic" resonances of the Symphony (powers of God). Once He produces an IDENTICAL PERFECT SYMPHONY of TONES (at His crucifixion) His resonance increases to INFINITY and there is NO DIFFERENCE in the SYMPHONY of TONES . . . they are the same.

Sorry . . . that is my best effort, Kat.
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,348,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post

The Jews never believed that Jesus was God. They still don't even believe it is possible for God to become human.. I have to agree with that. God is intangible, immaterial.. all around us.
Kat, this is where you lack the proper discernment of the scriptures, just as the Jews failed in properly discerning, therefore blinded so that Gentiles could come in and recieve Him fulfilling the promise, which was easy for them, but you are failing in the same regard as the Jews. You have been blinded. Maybe your work here in that regard has brought many to believe He is deity? Maybe so. In reality Kat, all you are is a Judaizer, that believes Christ was just a prophet of God, and follows His teachings.

You can't be Christian, unless you really believe in His deity, that is what separates Christianity from all the other religions that acknowledge His prophetic nature....like Islam and Judaism, they recognize Jesus, even agree with some or most of His teachings, but they don't regard Him as Deity. This is where the line is drawn. Just like the JW, are not a part of the church, the Christian church, whether they think they are or not, they aren't. Believing in His divinity is what makes us "Chritsians".

I wish I could help you more, but everyone here has tried very hard to help you along, but it seems that the Holy Spirit has just not quickened you into it. THis is something that you alone will have to lean on, on your knees, to God for that specific quickening. Maybe it has to do with your UR beliefs, maybe not. But there is a reason for all this, and its revelation will be made to you only on God's timing, not yours, mine or anyone else's.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:23 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 1,394,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
.. Maybe it has to do with your UR beliefs, maybe not.
Hey, my good man, why discredit UR? I hold to both, and both are as true as the Gospel!
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Hey, my good man, why discredit UR? I hold to both, and both are as true as the Gospel!
No they aren't Alabama, UR preaches that mankind will have a second chance after death. This contradicts scripture in every way shape and form.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,852 posts, read 3,225,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You can't be Christian, unless you really believe in His deity, that is what separates Christianity from all the other religions that acknowledge His prophetic nature....like Islam and Judaism, they recognize Jesus, even agree with some or most of His teachings, but they don't regard Him as Deity. This is where the line is drawn. Just like the JW, are not a part of the church, the Christian church, whether they think they are or not, they aren't. Believing in His divinity is what makes us "Christians".
Please provide just one scripture that says I have to believe Jesus is God in order to be considered a Christian (Christ Follower).....just one.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
No they aren't Alabama, UR preaches that mankind will have a second chance after death. This contradicts scripture in every way shape and form.
I don't believe in "second chances" either. Salvation is not by chance! We both know this (we're both Calvinist's, remember?) so let's not use the word chance...LOL I believe that God calls and saves! I don't claim it to be on this side or that side. I claim God will do what He says.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,348,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
I don't believe in "second chances" either. Salvation is not by chance! We both know this (we're both Calvinist's, remember?) so let's not use the word chance...LOL I believe that God calls and saves! I don't claim it to be on this side or that side. I claim God will do what He says.
I also do Alabama. But for me, I am Full Pret, and you are Amil, so we have alot in common when it comes to the eschatological events in scripture, but we also have some differences. Without derailing the thread any further, I will say one last thing about this, is that I believe God being all in all is already here, and that bringing in mankind to all be saved, is not prophetic IMO, but His will and purpose of Him coming in the flesh as Christ, and I believe it to be true and will transpire in time, not today or towmorrow obviously, but eventually yes, I do believe that most likely 99.9% of all man will come to Christ, however it does happen, His government will continue to increase and increase beyond the scope of our lives, but I do believe there will always be a small amount of humans, that will defy the gospel and stand outside of the gates of our church, the New Jerusalem.

My hope is that this time comes sooner than later, and it isn't the punishment of hell we must be preaching, but the salvation in Christ that is already here, so that through time, the nations can heal, and fully come to Christ and walk by His light. But as far as prophecy is concerned, that ceased with Christ and the realization of His government and kingdom here on earth, as it has been in Heaven when He ascended to the throne and received it. This happend in 70 AD, fulfilling the Danielic prophecy:

to finish the transgression/rebellion, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophet, and to anoint the most Holy.

Bless you!

Last edited by sciotamicks; 12-14-2009 at 04:16 PM.. Reason: typos
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:26 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 1,394,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
...But for me, I am Full Pret, and you are Amil, so we have alot in common when it comes to the eschatological events in scripture, but we also have some differences.
There's still hope for you... Your just taking the scenic route through the wilderness, that's all... I'll be waiting for you on the other side of the woods when you decide to come out...LOL
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:22 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,482,059 times
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Concerning the OP, and what i have read here by some of the posters, i have to wonder, if you do not believe Christ is God, then what do you believe concerning the virgin birth? Do you believe Jesus was the natural son of Joseph or perhaps that he was just an illegitimate son of an unknown man? And if you believe he was not God, then how was he able to live in the world his whole life without sinning?
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