U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 12-14-2009, 05:19 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,730,470 times
Reputation: 888

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I think I am about to pass out.....we agree!
Indeed, so then it is not by our power that we have faith and believe but by the work of the spirit of God within us that gives us a measure of faith so that we believe. And it is not the fault of those that do not believe because God has not worked within them by the power of his spirit to give them faith so that they believe. They don't believe because it is impossible for them to believe unless the father drag them.

Where we split in our understanding is concerning the timing of God. You believe God chooses never to renew most of the people in the world and only chooses to renew those that believe in this life. I believe that God will have all believe and come to a knowledge of the truth, and that Christ will in fact renew everyone and everything in the fullness of times. You believe that death ends Gods ability to renew people, i believe death is not and obstacle for God and that he can and will bring all people to believe, if not in this life then after. You believe the difference between those that believe in Christ now in this life and those that never do is that only those that believe in this life will be saved. I believe the difference is that those that believe in this life are elected to reign with Christ and help him in his work to save the rest of the world by providing evidences of his power in our lives to the world at large, and that in the end through the work of Christ on the cross and through his work in us who are his body and bride he will save all people and even the fallen angels.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 12-14-2009 at 05:28 PM..
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-14-2009, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,958,388 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Huh?? Are we not called to be perfect, as The Father is perfect and be ONE with GOD?? How do you think that happens if one is not walking in the Spirit? How does becoming ONE with God make one GOD?
By not sinning. Man in the flesh is incapable of this.
We are called to be perfect in spirit, but will never be in our flesh.

Elements of the world: (Galatians 4:3) Weak and beggarly elements. (Gal. 4:9) A yoke of bondage. (Gal.5:1) "the ministry of death," (2 Corinthians 3:7) for example. Let's look at another term used by Paul to describe the old covenant.

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

Remember, please, Paul is speaking in this place to his Jewish brethren who know the law (see verse one of chapter seven). There are many other places in this epistle were he addresses Gentiles, but in this verse he is speaking to Jewish Christians.

Many are quick to tell us that being “in the flesh’ only means we have a physical body that breathes, has a beating heart, and senses that allow us to communicate with our material world. Other insist this verse is about “flesh’ versus Spirit are two ways of viewing the same individual.

Paul is speaking covenantal truth. His Jewish readers had physical bodies under the law. They died to the old covenant of Moses through the body of Christ that they could be married to Him who was raised from the dead. That’s resurrection. They are now Christians in a better covenant, (and they still wear physical bodies).

The sense of it is conveyed by the past tense used by Paul as he says (‘when we were in the flesh.’) If Paul were speaking of earthen vessels (which he does elsewhere) then his statement would be foolish.

They were, as Jews, all in the old, fleshly covenant of Moses. The covenant of fleshly works. The covenant of if you do this and I will do that.

Genesis 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.

As Christians, they are no longer bound by the old covenant of flesh, that could not give life. Paul speaks of ‘flesh as a covenantal identity. With this in mind let’s look at two verses from the next chapter.

Romans 8:5-6 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

What did Paul mean by set their minds on the things of the flesh? The earthly Temple. The earthly priesthood. The earthly animal sacrifices. The earthly land of Palestine. All of these things were synonymous with the covenant of “flesh effort” and “death.”

Christians set their minds on the things of the spirit the things their father Abraham looked for. By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

With that in mind let’s look at one more chapter.

Galatians 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Our passage in Galatians 4 is of great import to this matter of accurate biblical interpretation. Here again Paul is addressing his Jewish readers.

Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?

Verse 12: For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Paul outlines the text according to his purposes. Abraham had two wives, each of which bore a son. The slave woman, Hagar, bore a son who was the result of mere fleshly effort, while the free woman, Sarah, bore a son who was the product of God’s promise and His power. For a time because the son of Hagar was the oldest there was hostility between him and Sarah son Isaac. Paul used the same imagery to show how the older son (those who desire to be under the law) were persecuting the younger son (those who were according the Spirit). Those who were born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

In the days of the covenant eclipse, a man was determined by the covenant he was under.

So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Your perfection in the spirit has already been perfected and sanctified, and that is where we must live, even though our flesh tells us otherwise, and sometimes does otherwise, our spirit is where the war is, and will always be.

Hebrew 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 12-14-2009 at 05:23 PM.. Reason: type very fast...many typos
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2009, 05:23 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,730,470 times
Reputation: 888
We are Kings and priests that reign with Christ and it is our mission to stand in the gap for the rest of the unbelieving world along with Christ who is the head of the body which is the church. And the laity for which we serve as priests and over whom we in the spirit reign with Christ are the unbelieving masses. It is by Christ and via proxy of the church who as an whole is the vicar of Christ in the world that the rest of the world will finally come to believe in the fullness of times, and by which even the fallen angels will come to understand Gods purpose in humanity and be reconciled at last to him again.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2009, 05:23 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,153,528 times
Reputation: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I think I am about to pass out.....we agree!
Hallelujah! A new convert in UR!!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2009, 05:29 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,730,470 times
Reputation: 888
Okay, i went off topic. My bad ... I got carried away ... Excuse me again for going off OP.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2009, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 4,790,152 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
By not sinning. Man in the flesh is incapable of this.
We are called to be perfect in spirit, but will never be in our flesh.
This is where you and I will always differ because I believe that CHRIST in us will accomplish this eventually. CHRIST IN US is the one that perfects us as we surrender self and follow in his footsteps....conforming us closer and closer to the image of GOD....the image we were created in.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2009, 05:33 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,440,653 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
God has already given me the discernment I needed on this particular issue....I will believe and trust in Him and not man's traditions/doctrine.
Doesn't hurt to ask Jesus Christ again. Or did you ask Him in the first place? That would explain your stance then.

Later on in the thread, you had asked where does it say in scriptures that you have to believe Jesus is God.

John 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8: 57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Jesus was crucified for stating that He is God. There is no misunderstanding that nor getting around that, and John 8:24 declares why you have to believe that He is God.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2009, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 4,790,152 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Doesn't hurt to ask Jesus Christ again. Or did you ask Him in the first place? That would explain your stance then.

Later on in the thread, you had asked where does it say in scriptures that you have to believe Jesus is God.

John 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8: 57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Jesus was crucified for stating that He is God. There is no misunderstanding that nor getting around that, and John 8:24 declares why you have to believe that He is God.

I believe Jesus is The Christ....I do not believe Jesus is GOD. That verse does not say that Jesus is God.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2009, 05:37 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,730,470 times
Reputation: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I never said Christy, me in my flesh, never sins....we are all sinners. What I said was that Christ lives in me and I live through him....I walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. There is now no condemnation for those that are IN CHRIST.

I believe Jesus was the natural son of Joseph, set apart by God, and became The Christ when he was anointed by the Spirit at his baptism.
Okay so you don't believe in the immaculate conception. Do you believe Jesus never committed sin in his whole life?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2009, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 4,790,152 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Okay so you don't believe in the immaculate conception. Do you believe Jesus never committed sin in his whole life?
I know that Jesus never sinned once he was anointed....what happened before is pure speculation on the part of man, even you can admit to that....we have no history of Jesus before this time and it is irrelevant anyway.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top